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 SCAG Errata--the Wall
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
797 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  01:47:43  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So it's like I remembered it.
I wonder why WoTC had it returned then, seeing a "Crucible" changed the Wall of the Faithless into the much less horrific and less unfair Mirrored Wall?

Also, I corrected my earlier post, as I intended to write "only intended to punish Adon, but not by having the Wall of the Faithless absorb and erase him.", not "only intended to punish Adon, but by having the Wall of the Faithless absorb and erase him."
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7315 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  02:37:36  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So exactly what did worthless little Adon do which required "punishment"?

And exactly why would mighty Kelemvor God Of Death (or any other deity) possess authority to decree and enforce this "punishment"?

[/Ayrik]
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
797 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  03:02:20  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
After looking up bits of the novel now, it's specified as by rejecting Mystra (according to the novel), Adon became faithless, and begged Kelemvor to turn away Mystra's worshipers from her (which made, him ccording to the narrative/Kelemvor a False). He also literally turned over his fate to Kelemvor.

And yes, Adon done all of this in madness caused by Cyric, something that is noted by multiple characters in the novel, but Kelemvor, think Adon still should be judged.

Edited by - Baltas on 21 Nov 2020 03:32:54
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

757 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  18:39:34  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

So it's like I remembered it.
I wonder why WoTC had it returned then, seeing a "Crucible" changed the Wall of the Faithless into the much less horrific and less unfair Mirrored Wall?



This is wrong, and the wiki is wrong.

I invite you and anyone interested to reread the relevant part of Crucible, the very start of chapter 21.

The Wall of the Faithless is/was the wall circling the entire City of Judgement/the Dead or whatever you want to call it. The entire city.

The wall that Kelemvor turned into a crystal mirror wall is the wall of his Judgement Hall in the Crystal Spire NOT the Wall of the Faithless.

Hall =\= City

There was no "retcon" of the Wall of the Faithless before this new Errata.

Edited by - Demzer on 21 Nov 2020 18:40:37
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
797 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  19:15:56  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm, I think you are right Demzer, the Wall of the Faithless wasn't removed/transformed into the Mirrored Wall, just not used by Kelemvor.

Still, I had the impression Kelemvor didn't use the Wall of the Faithless, even after becoming cold, and abandoning his benevolence, he transformed the Fudge Plane into a realm "of neither punishment nor reward" for the Faithless and False. Full fragment (from Crucible):
quote:
“In the past, I have been guilty of all this, but as I have changed myself, so have I changed my realm.” Kelemvor waved a hand over his new attire. “I invite you all to send your avatars to see the new City of the Dead. Judge me not on my past, but on what you find there now.”
As the Usurper spoke, he opened the gates of his city. Many gods did as he asked, though Sune turned around at the mirrored gates; the reflection of her slightest flaw was enough to convince her Lord Death had done all he claimed. The others continued on, swooping down ashen streets crowded with dull-eyed residents, passing whole boroughs of drab buildings and dead trees, crossing graceless bridges that spanned still waters the color of steel. They saw no cruelty or malice, but neither did they see joy; Lord Death’s realm had become a domain of shuffling spirits and passionless shades, a place of neither punishment nor reward. And in the heart of this dismal city loomed the Crystal Spire, a soaring minaret of smoky brown topaz encircled by a line of sorrowful spirits, the False and the Faithless.

Edited by - Baltas on 21 Nov 2020 19:41:12
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2551 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  22:35:57  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
According to the 3.0 FR Campaign Guide, Kelwmvor uses the Wall.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
797 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  23:18:38  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know, I just commented that in Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad, Kelemvor didn't mean to put Adon in the Wall, and put Dead in the Wall of the Faithless at the end of Crucible. But that it latter was retconned/changed by WOTC to have him put people in the Wall of the Faithless:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23749&whichpage=4#536930

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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2551 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  23:37:59  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah yes, sorry, I hadn't connected it with your previous comments.

Kind of makes me wonder if this newest omission is going to be along a similar vein: changing something (in this case, removing the Wall entirely) with no explanation, much like they later retconned the changes made in Crucible.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1804 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  23:39:38  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From what I read, what Ed said does conflict with what is stated in the 3e Campaign Setting.

Not only everyone in Faerūn knows of the Wall (or so the book says), the only way to avoid the Wall is to believe in a deity. That stuff of "believing in something else also works" must be Ed trying to fix the Wall's mess.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
797 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  23:48:39  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

From what I read, what Ed said does conflict with what is stated in the 3e Campaign Setting.

Not only everyone in Faerūn knows of the Wall (or so the book says), the only way to avoid the Wall is to believe in a deity. That stuff of "believing in something else also works" must be Ed trying to fix the Wall's mess.



Yeah, it is a fix, but Ed essentially addressed the lore conflict, by framing the information in the Forgotten Realms 3e setting as just an example of an unreliable narrator.

quote:
Sir_Encerwal
@SEncerwal
·
Apr 26, 2020
Replying to @TheEdVerse
Wait, I thought Ao didn't need faithful, explicitly ignored his cultists, and that they ended up in the Wall of the Faithless.
--------------------------------------------
Ed Greenwood
@TheEdVerse
That's right. That doesn't mean he doesn't have worshipers.
Be wary of pronouncements about the fates of souls. Where do they come from? Likely from clergy. How do THEY know? A god or god's servitor told them. Was that speaker telling truth? Or serving propaganda?


Which is a thing with Forgotten Realms lore books, as Ed stated for years many are meant to be not written by an omniscient and unbiased writer.

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Ah yes, sorry, I hadn't connected it with your previous comments.

Kind of makes me wonder if this newest omission is going to be along a similar vein: changing something (in this case, removing the Wall entirely) with no explanation, much like they later retconned the changes made in Crucible.



No problem, and yeah I think the omission in the SCAG Errata, might be ironically a similar retcon.

Edited by - Baltas on 21 Nov 2020 23:56:57
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sfdragon
Great Reader

2276 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2020 :  00:46:20  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
you know it might be nothing, but there was A video on youtube that I watched a while back that had in its title "Does wotc hate scag"?
so assuming its true, do you suppose that wotc might be doing a new one?


why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
797 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2020 :  03:22:16  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You mean this video?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejcQN-Kw7y0

And about if WoTC would make a new campaign setting book for Forgotten Realms?
It's not impossible, but I kinda doubt it. In my opinion, I think they might have release new books that cover options from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.
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Azar
Learned Scribe

116 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2020 :  02:35:12  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

the Fudge Plane


An awesome typo, if ever there was one.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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