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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5147 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2020 :  17:36:08  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well that was an interesting journey through history looking for lore on Abbathor.

I found a mention of a priest in the Waterdeep 3e book.

There is a big temple on the eastern side of Anauroch that was the home of Ragflaconshen.

There is the sceptre of Drakkalor from Shanatar that was inscribed with a rune of abbathor.

There is a cult to Abbathor known as the Wyrm Cult (priests are called Noroghor i think) that is concentrated in the North and that associate themselves with dragons and other creatures that amass wealth.

Then lastly in Eric's excellent Under Illefarn Anew is Delg "Hellhorns" Dragonsteel who is a maeluth (a kind of dwarven tiefling) who was looking for his grandmothers shrine, and that shrine details there were a few worshippers of Abbathor among the dwarves of Dardath.


So these hooks led me to look up Dardath and Hunnabar which were part of the various versions of Phalorm and the Fallen Kingdom. I also noted that dwarves from Ironstar fled to Dardath (or could be found there).

So i looked up Ironstar and bam, it was located in the Frost Hills and had three mountains Firstpeak, Secondpeak, and Thirdpeak. These are all located in the same place as Mithril Hall, which was located under Fourthpeak. And Ironstar officially fell in 200 DR ish while Mithril Hall was founded around 0 DR.

Lightbulb moment, Clan Battlehammer split off from Clan Ironstar and founded Mithril Hall beneath Fourthpeak while Ironstar was falling. They made sure their new home was completely disconnected from the mines of the the realm of Ironstar (presumably mining the huge mithril lode from a new side / angle).

When the last holds of Ironstar fell, Mithril Hall survived thanks to its secrecy and defences.

The link to Abbathor already exists. I'm guessing Ironstar was founded by dwarves from Drakkalor and so included a number of followers of Abbathor. When Ironstar falls the followers of Abbathor fled to Dardath and after that Hunnabar, but there was already a number of them in Clan Battlehammer.

Gandalug was the first king of Mithril Hall, Bruenor was the 2nd, Bruenor fashioned the regalia of Mithril Hall (his helmet served as the crown) so i would be willing to bet he was the first king to be officially declared and crowned while Gandalug was Mithril Halls founder and first ruler.

Bruenor fakes his own death to go off adventuring, not exactly diligent and dutiful behaviour that you would expect from a dwarf (but entirely in keeping with the behaviour of his descendant Bruenor Battlehammer the 8th and 10th king) so it is possible Bruenor did a deal with a priest of Abbathor from Ironstar to grant him the power to retake the fallen kingdom, however the achievement drains him of all desire to finish his goal and he flees in shame.

What Bruenor didnt realise is that this priest of Abbathor was part shadow dragon (a maeluth) and it is the descendants of that priest that continued in Dardath and Hunnabar and survive in Delg Dragonsteel.



Quite bizarrely i also discovered the Blingdenstone survives underneath Firstpeak. That makes Menzoberranzan an even greater culprit as being behind the fall of Mithril Hall, it seems like it was actively trying to remove all the dwarves and other races from the region possibly so they could get hold of the mithril for themselves. Menzoberranzan could have even arranged for the fall of Ironstar. Shimmergloom could have been around for a lot longer in the depths of the mines and helped destroy Ironstar from beneath and then lay around until Clan Battlehammer disturbed him (they might not have ever known he existed if they split off from Clan Ironstar before Shimmergloom got involved).


Just a few thoughts and research, i really need to speak to the experts about this.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5147 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2020 :  20:19:55  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Apologies, this is a set of notes from when i read the Moonshae novels a year or more ago, they are unorganised and i can't be bothered to reread the novel to see if i missed anything or to organise them properly.

Darkwell (1346 DR)

Stone breakwater protects Llewellyn Harbour
Kendricks ruled only Corwell for 2 centuries – ruled another kingdom or started a new dynasty?
Sacred Grove of the Earthmother becomes the new Darkwell – Heart of Kazgoroth creates the Darkwell?


Norland longships – Northwind, Redfin
Grunnarch off raiding shores far from Moonshae Isles – towns of Amn and northern Calimshan

Lodi – town in Amn – possessed 4 scrolls of incredible value
Scrolls of Arcanus - contain runes of power similar to druidic runes used by druids of the Moonshae Isles. - ancient, from before the time of Cymrych Hugh – possibly scrolls from the talfir of Ebenfar???

Robyn – increasing in strength and beauty despite not eating for days – LeShay / fey ancestry?

Old fishing dispute between Kythyss and Llewellyn.

The Defiant, best ship in the ffolk kingdoms, with the best crew
Dansforth, captain of the Defiant, old greybeard sailor

Heart of Kazgoroth can be used to reanimate petrified beings and corrupt them to the will of Bhaal – or to the will of the one that used the Heart.

Grunnarch the Red wields a battleaxe

Children of Bhaal – Thorax the owlbear (dimwitted but ferocious), peryton flock (guards), Shantu the displacer beast and king of Bhaal’s children.

Northmen outlaws raiding cantrev Dynatt and Koart (survivors from the Darkwalker campaign)

Corwell local custom to drink ale warm

When Genna’s grandmother was young there was a moonwell in every village, with hundreds of druids roaming the land.

Kressilacc is built into a sea canyon wall
Ysalla, priestess of sahuagin, carries golden dagger, worships bhaal
Sythissal, king of sahuagin


Silver chainmail of Tristan, light , unblemished – mithril perhaps

Daryth’s scimitar, enchanted to remain keen and sharp long ago by a forgotten weaponsmith, it glows in the dark

Taggar, shaman of Norland, worships Tempus

Grunnarch always raids late into the season – storms limit the raiding season?

Bay of Norland

Ingra, Grunnarch’s woman

Sahuagin army, the Claws of the Deep – crusading arm of sahuagin bhaal worshippers.

Koll and Gwen of Codscove – northmen fisherfolk
Codscove claimed a century ago by the northmen

Why did the Darkwell not expand when in the Fens of the Fallon – druids, elves, the Moonwell was depleted?

Ground of Myrloch Vale begins to crack and subside, green, red yellow gasses, sulphur, and something more sinister – weakness in the Underdark?
Tar pit, new to Myrloch Vale – volcanic activity in the Underdark?


Strait of Oman can be traveled in 8 hours (a single day or night)
Ramshorn on Oman is the settlement opposite Codscove.

Yak, firbolg from the Fens of the Fallon
Old fortress in the Fens of the Fallon had a medallion symbol of Chauntea on it, and magic glasses

Sword of Cymrych Hugh moves to its owner’s hand by a will of its own – intelligent, flight, teleportation?

Hobarth traveled across the sea using a transitive plane, nether plane filled with evil – Shadow Plane?

North wind, icy cold
winter storms strike the Sea of Moonshae with rough seas.

Ironkeep stood for 100 years as a symbol of northern might.

Council of Winternight, gathering of the northmen
Eric Graybeard, Urk Bearstooth, favoured lieutenants of Grunnarch the Red

People of Codscove are half ffolk, half northmen

Gate to Faerie beneath a tree, troll guarding the gate called Honkah-Fah-Snooei.

Garanday, command word for Tavish’s folding boat

Corwell town, inn of the Great Boar

Crown of the Isles emits a large aura of antimagic – fake crown to prevent identification?

Gnarhelm have skis for walking on snow.

Volumes of lore from the time of Cymrych Hugh in Caer Allisynn


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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5147 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  10:56:57  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looks like i'm way off the mark with Clan Battlehammer, just read Hall of Heroes (thanks George) and Clan Battlehammer are from Delzoun.

So Ironstar and Mithril Hall overlap in time and geography without any apparent connection.

I'm still certain Clan Battlehammer is cursed though and it seems a story worth exploring.


Onto the Avatar series now, and Shadowdale is up next. I'm only 18 pages in but there is as much lore in here as there is in Spellfire or the Azure Bonds, and i've deliberately ignored the god stuff focusing only on actual lore of Toril.


It would seem that i can find justification for my mass hysteria theory even in the very books that detail the Time of Troubles as a god centric event. The first few pages mention how people declared themselves prophets all over Faerun (and that they are in regular communication with the gods) and one man even declared that his cat Pretti is Oghma herself. Others performed great miracles likely owing to the instability of magic at the time (a simple cure spell could heal a thousand men and restore others to life or it could burn down an entire temple). So exacerbate that a hundred fold and how would anyone truly know if the gods walked the earth or not.

Its not a bad read either, i quite like the language of this book (far more than Streams of Silver or the Crystal Shard).

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1110 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  13:31:46  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gary - just wanted to say again thanks for these posts, I really enjoy your lore snippets and they are bringing some good dialogue about lore. Keep it up please.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5147 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2020 :  18:41:14  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, Shadowdale is a good read so far. I've got the names of 15 inns in various cities, a variety of npcs and even a subplot about a group trying to sabotage the Arabel to Dalelands trade route with hidden traitors among the Arabel guard (i reckon its the Iron Throne)

Supposedly magic goes awry at every casting, sometimes magnifying the result dangerous, sometimes doing nothing at all, sometimes doing something wild and unpredictable. It even affects Midnight who has access to a shard of Mystra herself.

But Bane manages to imprison Mystra the blob in shackles of enchanted fire and summon a hakeashar, and teleport himself and another mage to Castle Kilgrave, and create a scrying pool to speak to Myrkul, all of which happens without error of any kind.

In order to explain this away i think it might be that Castle Kilgrave is situated on a former site of Bane's power from when he was alive. The chains and the scrying pool and summoning circle could all be pre-existing to the god nonsense and relics from his mortal existence, magic items it would seem are less affected by the magical chaos.

I also wonder if wild talents are affected. Magic items are less affected by the magical chaos possibly because their magical effects are already moulded and predetermined, if that is the case then wild talents are already moulded and predetermined inside the person (i mean wild talent in regards to Ed's use of wild talents, not the psionic stuff, although i consider psionics to be just wild talents and specialised form of magic).

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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

USA
338 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  00:03:26  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did it say anything special that Bane did? Maybe he used rune, blood, candle, table, etc magic? Since they do not utilize the Weave, they would be stable during this time.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe

USA
91 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2020 :  02:31:20  Show Profile  Visit bloodtide_the_red's Homepage Send bloodtide_the_red a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison



But Bane manages to imprison Mystra the blob in shackles of enchanted fire and summon a hakeashar, and teleport himself and another mage to Castle Kilgrave, and create a scrying pool to speak to Myrkul, all of which happens without error of any kind.


The magical chaos effects the gods far less then mortals. For mortals it's like 1 of 3 spells, for gods it's more like 1 of 10.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5147 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2020 :  21:27:32  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm wondering where lyonsbane keep was located. I know it's never been stated officially that anyone can find but there are a few hints lying around.

Kelemvor starts off in Arabel in Cormyr and certainly seems to know the place, geography, customs, people. He has a longstanding association with Cyric and Adon who are also based in Cormyr (Cyric seemingly joined a thieves guild in Cormyr and later left).

In Prince of Lies the Chaos Hound follows his trail all over the Heartlands after he leaves Lyonsbane Keep. I take the Heartlands to mean Cormyr, Sembia, Dalelands, etc

There is mention of a man in Shadowdale called Hawksguard who knew Kelemvor when he was younger.


Im thinking that Lyonsbane Keep is one of the Border Barons keeps guarding the other side of the stormhorns.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5147 Posts

Posted - 03 Jul 2020 :  09:36:30  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shadowdale (1358 DR)

Helm, of the Unseeing Eye, God of Guardians
Mystra appeared as a blue white amorphous cloud in Castle Kilgrave
Tymora in Arabel
Gond in Lantan
Bane in Zhentil Keep
Loviatar in Waterdeep


Zhentil Keep
Trannus Kialton, low ranking priest of Bane, having an affair with Angelique Cantaran
Angelique Cantaran, wife of a wealthy spice importer in the city.
Streets and alleys often hid thieves and cutthroats and strange monsters
The Dark Temple, a temple of Bane, made of black stone with spires like jagged teeth. Destroyed by a flaming sphere
The Black Throne of Bane inside the Dark Temple
A jade circlet in the treasure room of the Dark Temple, allows the wearer to permanently alter form and shape (permanently), used to mould hands into claws, char the skin, etc
Trannus Kialton assumes command of the entire city (who believe him to be Bane)
Tempus Blackthorne, pale ivory skin long jet black hair and wears a black metal breastplate with a fist sized blood red gem in its centre, a mage of great power, arrives in Zhentil Keep with news of Mystra at Castle Kilgrave. Bane and Tempus teleport to Castle Kilgrave and find her weakened. Mystra sent some part of herself to find Midnight. Tempus Blackthorne chased after the shard of Mystra. Blackthorne was a childhood friend of Ronglath Knightsbridge.
Blackthorne supposedly died during casting an emissary spell that allowed him to deliver a message to loviatar in Waterdeep (he transformed into a black gem)
Bane imprisoned Mystra under Castle Kilgrave using chains of enchanted fire, he then called a hakeashar (magic eater) to guard her. Bane had made a pact with this creature long ago, it can release the magical energy it consumes (and give it to Bane???).
Black Guard, the watch of Zhentil Keep
Quicksal, an evil little thief, unwashed hair with traces of dye of every colour in it (from the disguises), thin hawklike face, extremely long fingers, knew Cyric. 25 years old now.
Banites were moving between Castle Kilgrave and Zhentil Keep while Bane was at Castle Kilgrave.
Thurbal (captain of arms in Shadowdale) caught trying to infiltrate Zhentil Keep and the Black Network under an assumed identity. Dragged through the streets and tortured. (was he a Harper???)
Ronglath Knightsbridge, 40 years old, 6 feet tall, impressive build, warrior, served Zhentil Keep all his life
Order of assassins trained from birth, wear bone white armour, bleach their skin, paint the symbol of Bane in black dye on their face, associated with the Church of Bane.
Fzoul became Bane’s second in command after the death of Blackthorne
Mordant DeCruew, Leetym, and Rusch are temple guards and soldiers in Bane’s army to attack Shadowdale
Bane sent his armies to die in Shadowdale as Myrkul would bind their soul energy to Bane to make him stronger.
Myrkul knew the Celestial Stair was in Shadowdale next to the Temple of Lathander.


Other Lore
The Jewelled Gauntlet of Bane
A blue/white star pendant of Mystra
Brehnan Mueler and his daughter Analee Mueler (his wife died nearly 10 years ago), live in a cottage west of Calanter’s Way on the edge of a forest. Brehnan Mueler is a cleric of Tymora
Tymora herself can be seen between highsunfeast and eveningfeast in Arabel
Many self proclaimed prophets appeared declaring they had contact with the gods (an old man in Arabel declared Oghma had possessed his cat Pretti)
Mass hysteria breaks out whenever magic is used, people panic at the chaotic results.
Followers of Bane have used Bane’s favourite hakeashar on many occasions.
Celestial Stairway at Castle Kilgrave
Celestial Stairway in Shadowdale
Elminster collects magical harps from Myth Drannor
Geryon’s Death spell, opens a dark rift with twinkling lights along the periphery, normally kills everyone nearby within moments. Geryon died 50 years ago (presumably casting the spell???). Elminster is summoned any time it is cast. Casting of this spell is forbidden and all written copies destroyed (presumably the weave prevents its casting)
Forest appears and then rots away to nothing on the road to castle kilgraves
mountains move in Shadow Gap
One of the Tablets of Fate is in Tantras (why???)
Elminster opened a rift and summoned the “Eye of Eternity” when he was 140 years old, he used it again to fight the forces of Bane in Sahdowdale

Protective Spells and Sayings
Chiah, Warden of Darkness?"
"Of Elki, of Apenimon, draw from thy power —"
Elminster grinned. "The dream dance of Lukyan Lutherum?"
Midnightfelt her lips tremble. She recited the incantation perfectly, yet Elminster
stopped her before she could finish.
"Read for me now, from the sacred scrolls of Knotum, Seif, Seker..."

Company of the Lynx
Company of the Lynx from Immersea.
Led by Knorrel Talbot
Searching for the remains of a dead dragon slain by the Wyvernwater - the dragon had attacked a diplomatic envoy crossing Anauroch and swallowed all the treasure – in truth the dragon swallowed a scroll containing a list of Red Wizard agents in Cormyr and Talbot intended to sell that information.
Goulart, a burly fighter
Parys and Bartholeme Guin, twins and magic users

Midnight
25 years old
Originally from Deepingdale, trained by Sunlar (head priest of Mystra in Deepingdale). Sunlar took personal interest in the training and welfare of Midnight (why???)
Travelling to Arabel in Cormyr
mage
A member of the Company of the Lynx, fled after hearing they planned to kill her after she opened the scroll containing the list of Red Wizard agents in Cormyr. Took the scroll with her and ran to Arabel via Calanter’s Way.
Mystra referred to Midnight as “my daughter”
Real name Ariel Manx

Kelemvor Lyonsbane
Warrior, lives in Arabel.
A guardsman (purple dragon militia???)
Battled Ronglath Knightsbridge atop Arabel’s walls and was thrown from the battlements but did not die (Ronglath Knightsbridge was the traitor in Arabel???)
On a mission to hunt traitors in the Purple Dragon militia of Arabel, hired by Evon Stralana
Adventurer that had worked with Cyric and 7, just returned to Cormyr after a failed mission to recover the Ring of Winter (only Kelemvor and Cyric survived from an company of 8), it was a false trail to the Ring of Winter, they fought a frost elemental and his giant thralls in a cave in Thar (from Prince of Lies)
Cannot accept charity (must take payment)
Sexist
Cursed bloodline, the Lyonsbane Curse
Werepanther, changes form if he receives no reward for a quest or abandons a quest. Change in form literal splits his previous form apart and the new form emerges from within.
Grew up in Lyonsbane Keep
Seventh generation descendant of Kyle Lyonsbane (175 years ago, ish for Kyle to be alive)
Kendrel Lyonsbane, Kelemvor’s father was a cruel tyrannical man
Killed his own father and fled
Burne Lyonsbane, Kelemvor’s uncle, a burly warrior like Kelemvor, saved Kelemvor as a child but Kelemvor let him die.
Torum Garr, red haired man, an exiled warrior king that died fighting drow while attempting to reclaim his kingdom, Kelemvor could not help because of his curse.
Vance, childhood friend of Kelemvor. (therefore also a noble). Kelemvor watched as he was slain by assassins, Kelemvor could not help because of his curse.
His grandfather was executed (for a crime???)
Kyle Lyonsbane started the curse, a true mercenary, ruthless in extracting payment. Could have defended a fallen sorceress or continue on to the enemy fortress to plunder its riches, the sorceress would have objected to the plundering so he left her to die at the hands of the enemy and so she cursed him.
The Lyonsbane curse was originally to transform into a mindless beast whenever payment was taken for a service, In his son the curse mutated into transforming into a beast (not mindless) whenever payment was not received, and he had to kill someone to return to normal.
Lukyan Lyonsbane, Kyle’s grandson, discovered his father was senile and cursed and turned into a murderous beast whenever he performed a good act without reward. Lukyan slew his father and so all Lyonsbane children slew their fathers when they reached 50 years of age.
Not every generation receives the curse. Kendrel Lyonsbane and Burne Lyonsbane were unaffected. kendrel’s four sons were affected.

Arabel
The Lady’s House, Temple of Tymora in Arabel destroyed after a cleric cast a healing spell and it went awry (the church disavowed him as a heretic). A woman walked out of the flaming temple and was declared to be Tymora herself.
Local butcher chased by his formerly dead stock
Local mage cast levitation and floated high into the atmosphere
The Black Mask Tavern, a mage trapped himself in a prismatic sphere and died of thirst a week later (then the spell vanished)
Ronglath Knightsbridge, a guard in Arabel, wields a spiked mace, working for the Zhentarim.
House of Gelzunduth, a merchant of questionable repute who officially sold hand crafter jewellery, costume weapons, and books of forgotten lore. Rumours are that he dealt in forged documents and information on official events (troop movements, etc). Has thus far escaped Purple Dragon attempts to entrap him. Gelzunduth was providing false documents for traitor guards in Arabel
The Hungry Man Inn, a street away from the House of Gelzunduth, serves hearty meals. Run by Zehla (an elderly woman), frequented by Kelemvor. Zehla has contacts in the black market and a hidden supply of healing and other potions.
Evon Stralana, thin dark haired man with a pallid complexion, minister for defence of Arabel (appointed by Myrmeen Lhal), hired mercenaries (on orders of Myrmeen Lhal) to infiltrate the Purple Dragon militia and root out traitors. The traitor was believed to be working with those plotting the economic downfall of Arabel by sabotaging trade routes (Sembia perhaps, Iron Throne, Zhentarim, or Cormyrean nobles???). Hired Kelemvor, Cyric, and Adon to uncover the traitor (Ronglath Knightsbridge who has now fled).
Caitlan Moonsong, a child waif in Arabel, malnourished, owns a red gem that allows her to read the mind and memories of a person (must come into contact with their blood), has only 1 charge. Wants Kelemvor, Cyric, Midnight, and Adon to travel to Castle Kilgrave and rescue her mistress.
Night Wolf Inn
Arabel has one defence that is made strong by magic (the wall???) now made unreliable by the crisis.
The Gentle Smile, a feasthall, serves poor quality (sometimes rancid) food
Marek, senior thief in the Thieves Guild of Zhentil Keep, wants Cyric to rejoin the guild
Pride of Arabel Inn, expensive, practice social airs and graces, visiting nobles sometimes stayed here (when there were no more rooms at the Citadel/Palace)
Tensyl Durmond (young man), recruiter for Iardon’s Hirelings
High Moon Inn, pays serving staff poorly.
The Scarlet Spear inn near the Pride of Arabel
Thurbrand of the Stonelands, an old companion and now rival (after a disagreement when many companions died on a mission) of Kelemvor. 30 odd years, balding, lined face, green eyes, starting to get fat, no longer an active mercenary instead runs a mercenary band of 10 (7 males, 3 female), they frequent the Pride of Arabel. Mercenary band is known as the Company of Dawn and are hired to capture Kelemvor.
The Company of Dawn (Tymora sponsored company) dispatched from Arabel to pursue Kelemvor etc after the battle at Castle Kilgrave
Tymora suffered a panic attack / episode of pain and fits, became unresponsive for a while after.

Adon
Cleric of Sune
Vain, considered himself to have the fairest skin in the Realms.
Works at the temple of Sun in Arabel
A well known philanderer
Seduced a contact of Ronglath Knightsbridge and discovered details of an attack on Arabel.
Praises Sune at every opportunity
Gets a scarred face, loses his faith

Cyric
26 years old
Thin, dark haired
Paranoid but kind (gives to the poor)
owns a cloak of displacement
Mentored by Marek (a thief and assassin)
Former member of the thieves guild of Zhentil Keep.
Mother fell in love with a Zhentilar officer. He abandoned her when she fell pregnant. She lived among the poor and homeless for a time, Cyric’s father murdered his mother soon after he was born and sold Cyric to slavers (who sold him to a Sembian family)
Orphaned as a baby in Zhentil Keep, bought by Sembian family and raised in Sembia until he was 10, then returned to Zhentil Keep
Trained by Marek in Zhentil Keep as a thief from 11 until 16 years old. Cyric left the Thieves’ Guild and fled Zhentil Keep, they put a bounty on his head.
Cyric spent 8 years on the road
Returned to Zhentil Keep at 24 years of age, the Thieves’ Guild offered to allow him to rejoin but he refused (bounty is still on his head). He fled to Arabel.



Castle Kilgrave
Became home to Bane/Trannus Kialton
Enchanted chains of fire used to bind Mystra
A scrying pool used by Bane to speak to Myrkul.
A ruin now but once a magnificently simple castle
Perfectly square keep with cyclindrical towers
The Castle was 3 stories high
The moat had dried up long ago
Tapestries all depict monarchs sitting upon thrones of skulls, or battles with huge titans. No pictures of kindness or joy.
Something in the castle makes people delusional and ultimately insane, Bane turned the castle into an illusion nightmare
Mystra is freed, Bane escapes, Mystra climbs the Celestial Stairway and is killed by Helm, the fallout from this creates the Helmlands.
Mystra rewards the heroes with gold and a magic harp before her death. Methild’s Harp, a harp from Myth Drannor, known to open all locks, part all webs, and break all bonds when played.

Myrmeen Lhal
Azure gown that moves on command and dries the commander, a gift from a powerful and amorous wizard one year ago.

Shadowdale
Thurbal, captain of arms and warden of Shadowdale, sent to infiltrate Zhentil Keep.
Celestial Stairway in Shadowdale, just outside the temple to Lathander.
Yarbro, guard in the Twisted Tower of Ashaba, overly zealous guard. Was found on the outskirts of Myth Drannor 2 years ago by the Knights of Myth Drannor and brought to Shadowdale.
Mayheir Hawksguard, acting Captain of Arms in Shadowdale while Thurbal is away. Came from a similar background to Kelemvor Lyonsbane (gentry nobility???) knew of Burne Lyonsbane and the stories of Lyonsbane Keep. Slain by Bane during the battle of Shadowdale.
Neena, servant girl in the Twisted Tower of Ashaba
Old Skull Inn owned by Jhaele Silvermane
Renee, serving girl in the Old Skull Inn,crimson, curly hair, blue eyes, attractive
Temple of Tymora clerics slaughtered by Zhentil Keep agents.
Hundreds of volunteers came through Shadow Gap to aid in the defence of the dale against the forces of Zhentil Keep
Sulcar Reedo’s farm on the opposite side of the road and slightly further east to Jhaele Silvermane’s farm, near Old Skull Inn.
Weregund the trader has a warehouse near Old Skull Inn.
Forester (the name) of a large man
Temple of Lathander building layout is in the shape of a Phoenix
Rhaymon, priest of Lathander
Connel Greylore, archer in Shadowdale’s army (forester normally???), slain during battle for Shadowdale
Mawser, thin man in Shadowdale’s army, devout worshipper of Tymora, slain during battle for Shadowdale.
Drizhal, 20 years old, bright yellow hair, in Shadowdale’s army.
Bishop, field commander in Shadowdale’s army, older than Kelemvor, dirty blond hair, fair complexion.
Elminster opened a rift and Mystra as a Magic Elemental emerged and slew Bane. Elminster fell into the rift and closed it. The rift destroyed the Celestial Stair.
Temple of Lathander destroyed by the rift.

Tilverton
Flagon Held High, inn
Dim lighting, unhelpful staff, sullen mood
Innkeeper no longer cares about his business, always drunk
Temple of Gond, entrance constructed in the form of a great anvil, all of the temple devoted to a single great chamber. Huge stone anvil serves as the altar with giant stone hands either side and a gigantic hammer in one of the hands. Support pillars carved in the form of swords, windows framed with interlocking hammers
Lots of blacksmiths near the Temple of Gond
Pilgrims of Gond from Tilverton travelled to Lantan but were turned away and two were slain when they refused to leave
City is devoted to worship of Gond, heartbroken that Gond has not appeared in Tilverton. May turn away from religion after the troubles.
Phylanna, priestess of Gond
Rull, high priest of Gond, able to heal using crystals.
Torrence, a jackalwere stalking Tilverton. Slain by Kelemvor

Company of the Dawn
Formed by Thurbrand, who is the leader
Gillian, 16 years old, tanned, dry skin, stringy brown hair, ordinary looking but not unattractive.
Cleric of Tymora
Brion, albino, thief, young (16 or younger)
Zalanz, fighter
Welch, fighter
Bohaim, young mage from Suzail
Isaac
Vogt
All slain in Spiderhaunt Woods except Thurbrand, Isaac, and Vogt

Spiderhaunt
Filled with ambush spiders, black bodies with orange spots, pale green legs. Other spiders with black and red bodies and bloated crimson legs. Other spider with black body and sleek sharp legs and greater agility than the others.
Large white spider, larger than any others, all other spiders avoid it.

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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 03 Jul 2020 :  09:47:27  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shadowdale wasnt a bad read overall.

I much preferred Cyric to any of the other characters (except maybe Adon after he got scarred), i dont know if this was intentional on the part of the writer but Cyric seemed like a genuinely nice person who had a tough start in life. He gave to the poor rather than a greedy church, he regretted killing people even though they tried to kill him, he stuck by his friends even though it put him in mortal danger.


As for the god nonsense. If it wasnt in a way that spelled out the thoughts and actions of the gods, the whole event could be interpreted just as magic gone wild and people taking advantage of the hysteria by pretending to be gods. Cyric could find nothing about Tymora that made him think she was a god. Bane had to eat and sleep and was just as flawed as any man trying to pretend to be a god, there was mention of obvious imposters (Oghma as a cat). The gods themselves acted like jerks most of the time. Mystra using a child for her own purposes (to the death of that child), Mystra and Tymora refusing to help people that didnt believe in them.

Curiously the magic gone wild and random effects that affected geography seemed to only affect wilderness areas. If the mountains turning to glass or a forest appearing and everything rotting away had happened in a major urban area there would be thousands dead and utter chaos. But all urban areas were largely unaffected and it seems later sources completely ignored this aspect of the ToT.


One thought i have had is the Celestial Stairs. They appeared to be placed at random (Shadowdale, Waterdeep, Castle Kilgrave), and yet also have powerful magic users in residence nearby. I'm wondering a few things, what exactly causes a Celestial Stairway to come into being, and does its existence have a benefit that allows nearby magic users to take advantage of (perhaps easier summoning, divination, and teleportation magics). It would appear that only divine beings and uber powerful mages (who may be semi divine anyway) are only able to see them.


Lots of random bits of lore in this book. The Geryon's Death spell, Elminster's summoning of the Eye of Eternity when he was 140 years old, Kyle Lyonsbane and his curse 7 generations ago.

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neutrondecay
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Posted - 03 Jul 2020 :  10:50:12  Show Profile Send neutrondecay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How much of the family tree of the Lyonsbanes is it possible to reconstruct from what we're told in the book?

Thanks,

nd
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 03 Jul 2020 :  11:51:05  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
7 generations starting with Kyle Lyonsbane and ending with Kelemvor.

Kyle had the curse where he would become a beast whenever he took payment for an action. He became a recluse living of friends and family and lost everything.

His son is unnamed but was innocent and the curse altered so that he became a beast whenever he performed an altruistic action.

Lukyan Lyonsbane (Kyle's grandson) was forced to slay his father (Kyle's son) when his father became 50 and brain addled. This established a tradition of sons slaying their fathers at 50 in the family (presumably a form of early onset alzheimers due to the curse is also hereditary and strikes in late 40s).

Then we have 3 unknown generations of Lyonsbane until Kendrel and Burne Lyonsbane were born. Neither of them carried the curse.
Kendrel had 4 sons, the last of whom was Kelemvor (one of his brothers was Gunther who slew burne and kelemvor slew gunthar).
All of kendrels sons were cursed.

It doesnt mention any females of the line, perhaps the curse affected only male children and perhaps also only allowed male children to be born.




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neutrondecay
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Posted - 03 Jul 2020 :  12:00:58  Show Profile Send neutrondecay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

7 generations starting with Kyle Lyonsbane and ending with Kelemvor.

Kyle had the curse where he would become a beast whenever he took payment for an action. He became a recluse living of friends and family and lost everything.

His son is unnamed but was innocent and the curse altered so that he became a beast whenever he performed an altruistic action.

Lukyan Lyonsbane (Kyle's grandson) was forced to slay his father (Kyle's son) when his father became 50 and brain addled. This established a tradition of sons slaying their fathers at 50 in the family (presumably a form of early onset alzheimers due to the curse is also hereditary and strikes in late 40s).

Then we have 3 unknown generations of Lyonsbane until Kendrel and Burne Lyonsbane were born. Neither of them carried the curse.
Kendrel had 4 sons, the last of whom was Kelemvor (one of his brothers was Gunther who slew burne and kelemvor slew gunthar).
All of kendrels sons were cursed.

It doesnt mention any females of the line, perhaps the curse affected only male children and perhaps also only allowed male children to be born.


Thank you!

nd
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 03 Jul 2020 :  12:21:02  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now assuming an 20 year generational gap and is the minimum for fathering a child that means the earliest Kyle Lyonsbane could have been operating in the Heartlands region would be 1210 DR ish which is around the time of King Dhalmass the warrior king of Cormyr who had so many wars that he caused at least 1 noble house to go extinct.

a 25 year generational gap means that Kyle Lyonsbane could have been around between 1210 and 1180 DR ish. However nobles in rich nations could have much greater life expectancy and still father children, but there is a mention of Lyonsbane children slaying their fathers when they reached 50 years of age which means the children would most likely be an adult by this time so i think the maximum generational gap would be 30 years

So Kyle Lyonsbane could have been around anywhere from 1150 DR to 1210 DR. This puts him in the time frame for the troubles between Cormyr and Espar as well as in the wars of King Dhalmass. There is also plenty of trouble in Westgate. Lots of opportunity in either area for a mercenary to gain a noble title. I'm still thinking Kyle Lyonsbane was made a Border Baron of Cormyr for his services. He then lost everything and became a recluse but his son or grandson could equally have reclaimed that land due to their mercenary activities.
A Border Baron keep would be out of the way so as not to be noticed. They would not be considered hereditary nobility (having to repurchase the rights to their land with each generation) so Kelemvor could not claim to be noble himself. He would therefore have lots of knowledge and contacts in Cormyr (as he does) and his family name could be well known in the Heartlands, but not important enough to carry any weight in Cormyr itself (because he is now a commoner).

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 03 Jul 2020 :  17:38:04  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, within the first 10 pages of Tantras, Cyric has gone from a cynical hero to murdering psychopath. That won't do at all, I think Cyric shall be my first detailing of where belief shaped the "personality" and behaviour of a divine being.

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Baltas
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Poland
774 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2020 :  19:11:51  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, Cyric's shift was unexpected.

When I first read Shadowdale, I was surprised Cyric is so likable.
I though then Tantras was possibly written by another writer using the pen name "Richard Awlinson" (like Troy Denning also did writing Waterdeep), but it seems both Shadowdale and Tantrad were written by Scott Ciencin.

With Cyric though, I would prefer him becoming evil as a mortal, if not as evil as he became as a god but slower so, like Walter White did for example in Breaking Bad.

but indeed I think he would only become as evil as was a god, after he became a Power, due to essentially taking place of, and accepting prayers and belief of 3 very malicious gods.

With the gods, like Mystra's and Tymora's behavior, it seems the writer wanted to indeed show their punishment by Ao is deserved, although it does end up with gods behaving OOC for their characterizaton in other works and Alignment.

Still, for this reason, I heard and read the Avatar series was rather controversial.
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Seravin
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Posted - 05 Jul 2020 :  00:18:48  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Avatar series, at least the first 3 books, are very badly written. But they contain so much lore and as they are the catalyst for the change from 1st edition to 2nd edition, they're must reads. But they have so many problems as literature (for a lot of reasons that are documented).

I'm always surprised on the FB group when you get people who just love these books. I usually chalk it up to nostalgia, as they were very good selling when they came out 30 years ago. To each their own, but my god, if they love these books what do they think of books that are actually well written?

Edited by - Seravin on 05 Jul 2020 00:19:45
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 05 Jul 2020 :  06:34:00  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The way I see it, Cyric was already on the path to evil in the first book. He wanted to be good, and almost managed it -- but when he had to make the call between doing the right thing and doing the easy thing, he went the easy route.

It's part of why I've never liked Cyric. He had a chance to be good, but wasn't strong enough. Sometimes, in fiction, when we see a good guy go bad, it's because of some major event -- someone was murdered, or a vile criminal walks free, or something like that. They were good, and then they fell, not intending to, still trying to do the right thing, but going at it the wrong way. Cyric? He didn't have that. He didn't have the strength of character to stand up to do the right thing. To paraphrase Neil Gaiman, Cyric didn't fall so much as vaguely saunter downwards.

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Baltas
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Poland
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Posted - 05 Jul 2020 :  07:19:01  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, it can be argued that indeed Cyric was on the path to evil in and it was the authors intent, seeing TSR did plan on Cyric becoming evil.

But with him, I would argue not having the "strength of character to stand up to do the right thing" can also be presented as sympathetic and even tragic.

Of course, Your Millage May Vary.
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 05 Jul 2020 :  15:07:14  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Well, it can be argued that indeed Cyric was on the path to evil in and it was the authors intent, seeing TSR did plan on Cyric becoming evil.

But with him, I would argue not having the "strength of character to stand up to do the right thing" can also be presented as sympathetic and even tragic.

Of course, Your Millage May Vary.



Tragic, mayhaps, but I've no sympathy for someone who just shrugs their shoulders and commits murder, just because it's easier. Especially when that character then embraces his new path and happily charges down it.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 Jul 2020 15:10:01
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Baltas
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Poland
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Posted - 05 Jul 2020 :  22:21:25  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I meant Cyric as portrayed in Shadowdale, and the potential route he could become evil in a better written way, rather than how he was presented in later novels.

But I understand you could also not like that, and I understand it, to be clear.
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 06 Jul 2020 :  10:48:19  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm still working on an alternative to the Time of Troubles that is the same but different.

The gods dont actually walk the earth, because gods are metaphysical beings with no direct interaction to the material plane allowed beyond that which mortals ask for.

So magic does go awry for other reasons (a calishite pasha reattempting Karsus' bid for godhood using Myrjala Darkeyes and so breaks the weave once again).

At some point in time one of the mortals pretending to be a god gets killed near Castle Kilgrave by the Celestial stairway and the Zhentarim get the idea to spread that Mystra is dead. This fake news is spread by cloak agencies and word of mouth and everyone starts to believe it.

The Harpers and other goodly aligned agencies fight back by pouncing on the news that someone pretending to be Bane died in the attack on Shadowdale.

With all the chaos going on regular people actually believe the fake news, even Bane and Mystra's own clergy (who can't replenish their spells because the Weave has gone nuts) begin to believe it and any attempt to contact divine proxies also fails.


Now the heroes Kelemvor, Cyric, Adon, Midnight, happen to be at Castle Kilgrave, events can even work as they did in the novel, except that they are being manipulated by mortals posing as gods rather than actual gods. They get chased to Shadowdale by mercs from Arabel and fight Bane imposter and a rift opens and swallows Elminster etc.



In the end what i'm working toward is that everyone believes Mystra and Bane and Myrkul and Bhaal are dead. Because deities are powered and shaped by belief and because no one worships those deities anymore because they all know they are dead, those gods are for all intents and purposes dead. A few diehard worshippers persist to keep them going as minor deities but that is all (people can even believe other gods provide the spells if they wish it doesnt matter because no one truly knows what is happening with the gods - ask Ed).

The adventures of Midnight, Kelemvor, Cyric, etc are published by a novelist and made famous (i found a suitable one in Cormyr i think). There is even talk of the heroes becoming gods after a climactic battle in Waterdeep and so people believe that Kelemvor becomes the new god of the dead, Midnight replaces Mystra, and Cyric becomes the god of Strife and Murder.

For Cyric however, i think i shall have the story twisted. He is not evil, he killed only when he had to, and in Shadowdale he was loyal to his friends. The Tantras novel mentions that there were Zhentarim spies still in Shadowdale, and Mourngrym was expecting a few surviving Zhent soldiers to try and attack the Twisted Tower in the aftermath as a revenge.
So Cyric tries to get Midnight and Adon out of jail, he might even slay one of the guards if he has to, but the majority of the murders are made by Zhents trying to get revenge for the failed attack (Elminster is dead, they will never get a better chance). But Cyric is the one that gets the blame (by Shadowdale and the Zhents)

The Zhentarim appropriate Cyric as their new god because he is from Zhentil Keep and they can make up whatever history they like and basically replace Bane with Cyric and keep control of his new church for their own power. The madness thing with Cyric is just due to them trying to merge together a number of dogmas to create their own super church and gain more power, which results in a horrible mash of worshippers that can't agree on anything and it starts to disintegrate into chaos and fighting until the only people that truly believe in Cyric are the nutters, so he becomes the god of nutters). Cyric himself is sending visions to his followers to try and get them to do things but nutters misinterpret things and it all ends up going horrible wrong and cue a big religious cleansing.

Its a work in progress, but i'm going to use it to show how gods shape belief and how belief shapes gods in a cyclical arrangement, rather than just gods control all, yay uber gods, gods rule of kewl.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 07 Jul 2020 :  12:43:41  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tantras (1358)
Bhaal was in Waterdeep

Shadowdale
Meltan Elventree, slain in the battle for Shadowdale, son of Neldock Elventree (he has another son who survived)
Forester, lived in Shadowdale his whole life, burly fighter, stringy black hair
Rhaymon, Cleric of Lathander
Bertil Ulphor, slain in the battle of Shadowdale, heavy man, not normally trusted with weapons (lackwit perhaps???), brother of Ulman Ulphor
Thurbal, captain of Arms, Warden of Shadowdale, defends Midnight and Adon during their trial over the death of Elminster
Midnight and Adon put on trial for the murder of Elminster
Irak Dontaele, guard of Shadowdale
Manxtrum, stablemaster at the Twisted Tower of Ashaba.
Segert, guard in the Twisted Tower of Ashaba, trainee, slain by Cyric rescuing Midnight
Marcreg, guard in the Twisted Tower of Ashaba, old, grey moustache, slain by Cyric rescuing Midnight
Forester, slain by Cyric rescuing Midnight
Gaeus Thorn, a unique item, those it injures are placed under a powerful suggestion to obey whoever gives them orders (effective when used as a blowdart). Cyric bought it on the black market, previously owned by an alchemist in Shadowdale (who died in the Battle of Shadowdale). Those injured by the thorn kill themselves (happily) once they have completed the orders given to them.
Lhaeo gave Midnight an orb that shatters near magically powerful objects (use it to find the Tablets of Fate), and the Mists of Rapture a glass vial that can be used to incapacitate lots of people (a gas weapon???)
Calliope, a maid in the Twisted Tower of Ashaba

Kelemvor and Hunters
Yarbro, guard of Shadowdale. Dislikes Kelemvor, diligent and zealous.
Terrol Uthor, late thirties, short, powerfully built, blue-grey eyes, thick black hair slicked black, a veteran of many battles with the drow and steeped in the ancient lore of the elven clans that once claimed Shadowdale. Sent with Kelemvor to hunt Cyric, Midnight, and Adon.
Gurn Bestil, woodsman, late fifties, white hair. His son died in the Battle of Shadowdale.
Kohren, priest of Lathander, tall, dark hair with a widows peak.
Lanx, priest of Lathander, moderate build, thin, curly blonde hair, dull brown eyes.
Cabal, guard in Shadowdale, 40, grey beard, thick white eyebrows, archer and swordsman
Bursus, guard in Shadowdale, tired, jet black eyes, deeply tanned skin, archer and swordsman
Jorah, guard in Shadowdale, slender build, wild auburn hair, archer and swordsman.
Mikkel and Carella, unknown last names, could be brothers, rugged and well toned, shaved heads. Mikkel wears a sparkling prism from his right ear.

River Ashaba
Mosquitos are common
Nereids in the river (their souls are said to be kept in their shawls).


Daggerdale
The Battle for Shadowdale drove the surviving Zhentilar into Daggerdale.
Fzoul ended up in Daggerdale
Myrkul met Fzoul in Daggerdale.
Bane possesses Fzoul.

Zhentil Keep
Dier Ashlin, guard at the Dark Temple of Bane
Manshoon gone into hiding when Bane appeared
Sememmon vanished after the Battle of Shadowdale.
People felt Bane led them into a trap in Shadowdale and then abandoned them, many viewed Bane as weak.
Zhentil Keep still has spies in Shadowdale
Tarana Lyr, sorceress, wears the ebon robes of Bane’s dark order (an order of wizards in the Church of Bane???), blond hair, long shapely legs, deep blue eyes. Mentally unstable, likes taking risks.
Willingale, Zhent operative in Harrowdale, recalled to fight in Scardale
Hepton, commander in Zhentilar
Windling, commander from Citadel of the Raven


Scardale
Knopf (red hair and beard), Cadeo, Frost, Zhentilar soldiers in Scardale. Enjoy gambling
Zhentil Keep’s garrision in Scardale was limited to 12 Zhentilar soldiers.
Jhembryn Durrock, demands to be called Lord Durrock. Commander of Zhentil Keep garrison in Scardale. Skin seared black as severe burns cover much of his face. Assassin. Wears a black visored helment as he scares the children (and adults) of Scardale. Can summon a nightmare using a black pendant in the shape of a horse with glowing red eyes.
3 other assassins in the garrison (one called Varro, uses a scythe, Sejanus uses a bolas). Crimson stained symbol of Bane on their chests.
Zhentil Keep troops attack the other garrisons
Varden, violet clothes trimmed with gold mesh, yellow boots, cape with a crimson lining, golden hair. A thief and merchant allied with the Sembian garrison.
Gratus, a thief and associate of Varden. A merchant who sells boots also allied with the Sembian garrison. Gratus was a former spymaster for Lashan.
Dowie, magic user. Slain when he case a light spell
Rumours are the Lashan of Scardale built many tunnels beneath Scardale Town. Hall of records has a tunnel that connects to secret complex and a butchers shop.
Barth, leader of Sembian resistance. Strong build, curly black hair, moustache.
Wulston, tall, dark haired, pale complexion, soldier from hillsfar garrison
Tymon, dark haired, craggy nose broken several times, soldier from hillsfar garrison.
Queen of the Night, a Zhentarim slave ship, black wood, used to smuggle illegal cargoes and avoid taxation. Galley master is called Otto, cruel man likes torturing slaves. Bjorn the One Eyed a wildman and slave on the galley (blonde hair)
The Fatted Calf, a tavern with escorts. Liane (fiance of Varden) escorts at the bar, her father owns the
tavern
The Argent, a zhentish trireme (slave galley)
Dalzhel, zhentilar soldier, officer, bushy black beard.

Kelemvor
Superior vision due to the curse

Other Lore
Shaeroon’s Scimitar, a spell that conjures a flaming scimitar that follows a target
Holding both hands side by side, palms facing up, thumbs stretched as far apart as possible, was almost universally accepted as a sign of peaceful intentions. By showing this sign and saying, "There is room for all," a cleric could expect to gain admittance to most temples quite easily.
Samirson Yarth, an assassin in Urmlaspyr, no intended victim had ever escaped, believed to have been blessed by Bhaal
Bane and Myrkul slew all the assassins (worshippers of Bhaal)
Smeds, a high ranking city official in Urmlaspyr, his wife is having an affair with a troubadour (circus performer???) he paid Samirson Yarth to kill the troubadour.
Dileen Shurlef, an assassin in Waterdeep serving as Bhaal’s servant.
Inhabitants of Gehenna know one of the tablets can be accessed through the City of the Dead in Waterdeep.

Company of the Scorpions
Zhentilar troops
Tyzack the leader, coward, once raided a Temple of Bane north of Scardale many years ago (when the Zhentarim refused to make him a priest of Bane)
Ken, Croxton, Eccles, Praxis (sandy haired, steel grey eyes), Slater (woman, shaved eyebrows, brown
hair cut short), all members of the company
Ren, wiry, golden haired, good with a blade, second in command
Searching for an artefact rumoured to be in Haptooth Hill


Tantras
City government got paid lots of money by Tormites flocking to the city (mostly from the Church of Torm) because Torm lived here. Soon the government asked other churches to pay the same amount of taxes. Those that couldnt pay had their buildings sold.
Faulkner, port guard
Sian, port guard
Torm appeared in Tantras, made Tantras the city of eternal light (no night time)
Encompassed by a wall
A series of towers line the northern ridge where the Citadel of Tantras is located
Temple of Torm in the north section of the city
North section of the city is on an incline leading up to the ridge where the Citadel of Tantras guards.
Bell tower in the south of the city near to a military complex and a shrine of Mystra.
Hlintar emptied by a storm that unearthed thousands of old graves and brought the skeletons to life.
Rumours that Zhentil Keep might attack Tantras (from Scardale)
Lazy Moon Inn, simple large tap room, kitchen, and store room on the ground floor. Run by Faress
Government buildings on Hillier Way
Quillian Dencery, 16 years old, tends to the poor with his mother, works for the government as a guide on occasion. His father died in a war (mother got a pension)
Waukeen, goddess of Trade, Liberty’s Maiden. Temple in the market square (became a butchers shop during ToT
Loyan Trey, butcher in the south end of town.
Beardmere’s, a butchers shop in the north end of town by the market square (was a temple to Waukeen)
Dark Harvest Festhall, worshippers of Bhaal meet in the gaming rooms every night. In the south end of town. City government leaves it untouched because their spies get information here
Temple of Sune burned to the ground a few weeks ago.
Curran Inn, known as the Wagging Tongue, a good place for information
Aylen Attricus, supposedly one of the founders of Tantrus, he had the bell tower built. Died a century ago, supposed to be a thousand years old. Bell magically enchanted to prevent it from tolling unless certain conditions are met.
Tower of Aylen Attricus, grey obelisk with circular stairs inside and bell at the top. Silence spell on the tower.
Morgan Lisemore, commander of Tantras garrison. Tall sandy haired man, 40-50 years old
Inscription on Belltower. This bell was created to throw a shield of impenetrable mystical force over the city I helped to found. To protect my fairest creation from great harm. Once, my beloved ally, the sorceress Cytheria, rang the bell and saved the city from the dire magics of a wizard I battled nearby. It took great courage to stay and protect our home, though she would have preferred to fight by my side. Now, only by the hand of a woman with power and heart such as my wife had, and only in the greatest time of need, will this bell ever sound again.
Linal Alprin, blonde brown beard immaculately trimmed, monobrow, harbour master. Lives on the north side of town. Married to Moira Alprin (plain, dark haired, unable to have children)
Messina’s Elegant Boutique, stand in the market square, sells hats.
Manacom, cleric, friend of Linal Alprin, disappeared a few days ago. Linal tried to find what happened and was nearly beaten to death by a gang. The city guard are not interested in finding him and others have disappeared. Zealous Tormite council attempting to purge all non Tormites from the city. Sunites fled, Oghmanites slain. Waukeenites imprisoned and tortured to death
Sabinus, smuggler, ties to the city government and Church of Torm, frequents the Dark Harvest. Links to the Zhentarim
Dunn Tenwealth, a city official, ordered the disappearances of other priests and the closing down of other churches (not Torm’s), platinum hair, high priest of Torm. In charge of the religious purging.
Temple of Torm, the diamond corridors begin at the centre of the temple and connect to every chamber, meant to act as a maze that few can travel without becoming lost.
Bane transferred himself into a 50 ft tall obsidian statue that was filled with the souls of Bhaal’s assassins.
12 members of Tantras’ ruling council. Dunn Tenwealth was one member.
The Citadel and Temple of Torm destroyed by the energy released from Bane and Torm’s death, leaving only a crater.

Fire Knives
Murdered the occupants of Castle Dembling, including Lord Dembling and his family and servants (located on the Dragon Coast perhaps???)
Fire Knives led by Roderick Tem, dark eyed, pug nosed

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5147 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2020 :  13:29:00  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Enjoyed this novel a lot less.

Roughly two thirds of the novel were dedicated to getting to Tantras (making the title somewhat misleading).

I noticed a tendency (continued from the first novel) to somewhat generalise groups and organisations into a single group. So in Shadowdale it started with the intimation that all thieves were involved in "The Thieves Guild" which was based in Zhentil Keep. Now that continues with all assassins worshipping Bhaal (and only Bhaal presumably).

I found some interesting bits for development. For instance the turning to evil of all of Torm's upper clergy who also seemed to have taken complete control of the city's government. Sounds like a perfect example of a Torm/Bane heresy that i will look to developing further later.

Aylen Attricus' bell tower was more of the creeping deus ex machina problem, that presumably exists only because the writer needed a way to stop the whole city being destroyed.

Cyric's complete personality rewrite was jarring. Before he was misunderstood, and only ruthless when he needed to be, but who found friends and a reason to be good. Now he is a merciless killer with no conscience or loyalty at all that cares only for power. I would have preferred a gradual change where Cyric was upset at being blamed for the murders the Zhentil Keep agents carried out in Shadowdale (these agents were mentioned as existing but not used bizarrely). Then after his capture he is forced to survive and be ruthless about it which is believable. At a final meeting in Tantras it would have made more sense if the heroes jumped to conclusions assuming Cyric was evil when all he was doing was trying to get back to them and help them, that would have made him abandon all notions of friendship and embrace evil.


Kelemvor is a miserable arse even after his curse is removed (that shouldnt have happened so easy and Bane should have betrayed him).


Not as much interesting lore in this book, and a tendency to follow other books in that characters are introduced with some detail only so that they can be killed and the reader will at least know their name.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5908 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2020 :  13:38:13  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's what you get when three different authors write a trilogy.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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