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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2039 Posts

Posted - 02 Oct 2017 :  22:07:42  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There was a belief among some of the Lathanderites that the "Deliverance" would occur, and this would herald the return of Amaunataur. I remember this from the Erevis Cale books. Others of the faith viewed the Deliverance as heresy, and then of course, the Spellplague occurred, and Amaunataur suddenly took Lathander's place.

Now, we have both gods. It could be that they are the same (or aspects of the same), and Amaunataur was "dormant" for a while. Then he took over for a century, but then, with the Sundering, he and Lath "split", kind of like Tyche.

Sweet water and light laughter
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moonbeast
Learned Scribe

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 03 Oct 2017 :  17:10:46  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

I would just add that in 5E your challenge rating is nothing like your level. You could be an 11th level yuan-ti spellcaster with a flametongue sword and bracers of defense and have a challenge rating of say 7 because the CR is based on fighting a party of individuals at a certain level. (Plus, 5E's math is purposefully friendlier to having low level creatures having impact , so a swarm or kobolds could still be a threat to a high-level characters (in contrast to 3E) and you don't need 4E's minion rules at all.)



Very true, Tom. The CR rating is the monster's "difficulty rating" based on it (the number) being equal to the a four-party adventurers of the same Level. So a CR 7 monster is actually considered a (more-or-less) even match for a band of four Level 7 adventurers.

But still….. even a 5th edition Frost Giant (an ordinary one) has a higher challenge rating than Ras Nsi. That doesn't sit well with me.


Edited by - moonbeast on 03 Oct 2017 17:16:50
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2017 :  02:24:46  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But there is also a very good reason why that is in the story, and as others have pointed out he's lost favor with Ubtao, so his chosen abilities are gone.
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moonbeast
Learned Scribe

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2017 :  08:50:29  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

But there is also a very good reason why that is in the story, and as others have pointed out he's lost favor with Ubtao, so his chosen abilities are gone.



To be fair, everyone has lost favor with Ubtao. Uber just got a hissy fit and left. All his former followers are now on their own.

Maybe Ubes found more grateful worshippers in…. Eberron. He'd be re-imagined there as a steampunkish Mecha-Dinozilla.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5980 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2017 :  13:16:50  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

But there is also a very good reason why that is in the story, and as others have pointed out he's lost favor with Ubtao, so his chosen abilities are gone.



To be fair, everyone has lost favor with Ubtao. Uber just got a hissy fit and left. All his former followers are now on their own.

Maybe Ubes found more grateful worshippers in…. Eberron. He'd be re-imagined there as a steampunkish Mecha-Dinozilla.





I'm fairly certain that the reason he disappeared was that he went to Abeir with Maztica, given that its been strongly hinted that Ubtao is Qotal.

Hmmm, and when I was wondering about that Atropal earlier.... I wonder about Eshdowdow.... child of his? Actually Eshowdow? Child of Eshowdow and Shar? Perhaps Eshowdow was formed as some form of intrigue involving Mask and/or Leira working together a few centuries after Mystryl's fall? Is Eshowdow actually an imperfect "avatar" of this atropal? When Ras Nsi destroyed the majority of the Eshowe tribe did this in essence "stillbirth" this atropal (which would be ironic, since he's now protecting the city feeding it)?

I will also note Faiths and Pantheons entry for Ubtao says "Over time, Ubtao's essence began to fragment into numerous nature spirits, one of which was a shadow entity called Eshowdow. Shar recently absorbed Eshowdow, and her activity might mark the end of the agreement forged with Ubtao with unforeseen results." We also know that Sseth was Set acting in the Chultan Pantheon.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 04 Oct 2017 13:56:19
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farinal
Learned Scribe

Turkey
216 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2017 :  20:41:46  Show Profile Send farinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also I would like to add that the big poster map is just gorgeous. This adventure has been really my favorite 5E adventure book so far. Great stuff! Good storyline, great setting, nice puzzles and dungeon designs and fun, solid side quests.

"Show some respect!" the draegloth thundered. "You adress High Priestess Quenthel Baenre, Mistress of Arach-Tinilith, Mistress of the Academy, Mistress of Tier Breche, First Sister of House Baenre of Menzoberranzan... you insolent dog!"
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe

113 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2017 :  21:49:38  Show Profile  Visit shades of eternity's Homepage Send shades of eternity a Private Message  Reply with Quote
yesh they wrote out saurials. :(

check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30288 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2017 :  23:38:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity

yesh they wrote out saurials. :(



The Shades inexplicably found and attacked the Lost Vale during the time jump between 3E and 4E.

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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2017 :  23:46:47  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Where was the saurial thing mentioned. The Dragonbait entry seems to suggest it, but not definitively. And heh, if they can introduce dragon people (dragonborn, ignoring the lame-ish dragonkin that already existed) to the Realms, they can re-introduce dinosaur people.
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe

113 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2017 :  23:54:20  Show Profile  Visit shades of eternity's Homepage Send shades of eternity a Private Message  Reply with Quote
dragonbaits npc's narrative

"very few Saurials dwell in the Forgotten Realms and no saurial communities are believed to exist anywhere in the world."

I spent a good chunk of last year writing them back in and around the Netheril situation.

This also contradicts a ton of previous stuff I found from previous editions.

check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30288 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  01:26:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Page 112 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide (note how they also changed the name of the place):

quote:
Tarkhaldale (Lost Dale)
Netherese Dale; Population 10,000

In ancient times, Tarkhaldale was a flourishing mining and farming community, trading with the dwarves of the Desertsmouth Mountains and the human realms of Asram and Hlondath. After the spread of the Great Desert of Anauroch and the destruction of the dwarven mines at Tethyamar, Tarkhaldale was abandoned, left to the orc and goblin tribes of the region. Among the few who remained aware of the land, it became known as the Lost Dale.

In the Year of the Turret (1360 DR), a lizardlike race of humanoids named saurials arrived in the dale, enslaved and carried from their home dimension by the lost god Moander. The saurials broke free and enjoyed decades of peace, carving a home for themselves in the forested hills of the Lost Dale.

Today, Tarkhaldale is once again peopled by human settlers. The Empire of Netheril uncovered the hidden saurial villages of Tarkhaldan and drove its inhabitants underground. Few outside Netheril know of the vale’s existence.


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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Oct 2017 01:27:07
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  06:58:30  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, neither of those sources strike me as definitive enough and frankly given the magic used to hide the Dale, this could just mean it has been restored in the 5E era. That said, I think I would have Tarkhaldale inhabited by mostly shadar-kai refugees from re-fallen Netheril (at greatly reduced numbers) and have the saurials pop up someplace new, or perhaps Dragonbait's presence in Chult is an indication that they found a portal to somewhere near the Chultan Peninsula or that Grypht created one. (This does beg the question of what happened to Alias and her clones. IIRC, there was no indication that they aged.)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30288 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  10:10:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Given the magic used to hide it, the Shades never should have found it. We saw a near-god who knew it was there, who was flying overhead and specifically searching for it, fail to find it. And I doubt Moander would have picked it for his attempted rebirth if it was that easy to find.

Me, I think that explicitly kicking them out of a home that no one should have been able to find, then failing to mention them again for an entire D&D edition, means they were deliberately removing the saurials from the Realms. If they hadn't mentioned the Lost Vale at all, I'd agree that saurials were still around... But instead, WotC made a point of saying they weren't part of the setting any more.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Oct 2017 10:12:37
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3505 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  11:10:05  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I get the feeling wooly that you have become more anti wotc than usual. Not that its a bad thing.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5980 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  12:33:44  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

Yeah, neither of those sources strike me as definitive enough and frankly given the magic used to hide the Dale, this could just mean it has been restored in the 5E era. That said, I think I would have Tarkhaldale inhabited by mostly shadar-kai refugees from re-fallen Netheril (at greatly reduced numbers) and have the saurials pop up someplace new, or perhaps Dragonbait's presence in Chult is an indication that they found a portal to somewhere near the Chultan Peninsula or that Grypht created one. (This does beg the question of what happened to Alias and her clones. IIRC, there was no indication that they aged.)



Personally wouldn't be upset to find them in Chult. There are already dinosaurs and pterafolk.

On what happened to them in 4e, I have a suspicion that something was done with them in 4e, because the DM's Guild product, Saurials of the Lost Vale has this dedication. If I had to guess, probably in some dragon or dungeon article by BRJ.

Dedicated to Kate Novak. Without her fine work, this book would not be possible.

To Brian R. James, who saved the Saurials in their darkest edition.

And to the good people at the Candlekeep forums and rpg.net whose insights rekindled an old passion.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30288 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  15:08:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I get the feeling wooly that you have become more anti wotc than usual. Not that its a bad thing.



Nope. This is a long-standing complaint of mine, dating back to when I read thru the FRCG.

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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe

113 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  15:31:37  Show Profile  Visit shades of eternity's Homepage Send shades of eternity a Private Message  Reply with Quote
meh

I think I've gotten over it (it's not like I can do anything about it and the original .pdf kinda did it's job).

I was planning a "scales and sails" adventure path (basically saurials of the Caribbean in the trackless sea/sea of swords/and adjoining regions), but I'll switch gears to the other product I'm working on. :)

I do really like the detail and material of the project of the sphere in spite of the flaws, and as a person heavily influenced by the dragon magazine 189, jungles of chult, and ring of winter, its kinda fun seeing how amazing a sandbox they made in the area.

once a slot opens up in my schedule, I will be trying it. :)

check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  15:58:59  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Brian James did say that he threw the line in 4E explicitly to save them, thus the dedication noted above. So, I'm going with they are still alive. Dragonbait always had wanderlust, so maybe he's just wandering. Frankly, the fact that Dragonbait appears in Tomb of Annihilation is evidence that WotC is keeping the saurials.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30288 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  17:15:55  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

Brian James did say that he threw the line in 4E explicitly to save them, thus the dedication noted above. So, I'm going with they are still alive. Dragonbait always had wanderlust, so maybe he's just wandering. Frankly, the fact that Dragonbait appears in Tomb of Annihilation is evidence that WotC is keeping the saurials.



I can't agree. Just because one named character remains doesn't mean they kept any others. Especially since, as I pointed out, WotC went out of their way to try to remove them. And Dragonbait has been the only saurial in the entire setting before.

When I see something addressing the continued existence of more than one saurial, then I'll believe the race is still present in the Realms.

I'm not trying to be difficult or negative, I just don't see any reason to think Dragonbait is anything more than a one-off, here, as he was originally.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5980 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  19:52:26  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey, speaking of Saurials.... do you think they'd get along with Loxo? They seem kind of similar in culture...

and damn, now there goes my wandering mind picturing Rhinaur, Rhinotaurs, and Giff fighting each other.... with the giff wearing some kind of flame thrower since they don't have smokepowder.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14182 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  20:46:58  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Giff Bacon is delicious.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe

113 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  00:02:03  Show Profile  Visit shades of eternity's Homepage Send shades of eternity a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Hey, speaking of Saurials.... do you think they'd get along with Loxo? They seem kind of similar in culture...

and damn, now there goes my wandering mind picturing Rhinaur, Rhinotaurs, and Giff fighting each other.... with the giff wearing some kind of flame thrower since they don't have smokepowder.



I have no problems what's so ever with the concept of loxo wandering the savannah running into dinosaur people and having complex issues.

In fact, aren't they in the shaar with the Centaur, Thri-kreen and Wemics?

in fact your comments reminded me of the following pic.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b4/d2/41/b4d241607029a9ae06303c85fb608eef.jpg

go nuts :)

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Giff Bacon is delicious.



Well it is well black smoked :D]

check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com

Edited by - shades of eternity on 10 Oct 2017 00:03:48
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moonbeast
Learned Scribe

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  05:37:55  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Giff Bacon is delicious.



Eat in moderation. It's got too much cholesterol.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5980 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  17:01:58  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Giff Bacon is delicious.



Hmmmmmm..... as an enemy of the red wizards in one of my Tharchs..... you know, some intelligent humanoids just may be viewed as edible...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe

113 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  19:43:49  Show Profile  Visit shades of eternity's Homepage Send shades of eternity a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Decided to respond with humor.

http://breadthofpopsanity.blogspot.ca/2017/10/please-find-dragonbait.html

enjoy. :)

check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com
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