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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3086 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2019 :  14:15:07  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
WotC had already started slowing down the novel releases back when the Sundering started. Now they've killed the line and only RAS is allowed to write. However, he's only got 1 book left, then the line will probably be dead and buried until WotC decides it can be resurrected.

Losing Kemp for refusing to pay him the market standard was just sh*tty of them.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 09 Nov 2019 14:15:51
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32452 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2019 :  15:49:07  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

WotC had already started slowing down the novel releases back when the Sundering started. Now they've killed the line and only RAS is allowed to write. However, he's only got 1 book left, then the line will probably be dead and buried until WotC decides it can be resurrected.

Losing Kemp for refusing to pay him the market standard was just sh*tty of them.



They nearly lost RAS, back in the day, too, for similar reasons.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Kellemonster
Acolyte

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2019 :  08:20:58  Show Profile Send Kellemonster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been a candlekeep forums lurker 4 about 15 years or more since maybe my sophomore year of college. I cannot agree more with the author of this thread. What I find surprising is that this thread has been able to exist on this forum with the opinion given about Ed Greenwood's novel writing which I agree is pretty bad especially the juvenile sex parts and the Mary Sues.

Kemp is clearly the best writer that the forgotten realms has ever seen and I don't just say that because I'm also a lawyer.

I abandoned this place shortly after fourth edition it's only in the last 12 months or so that I have even cared about 5th edition d&d and then it took me until I started doing my second campaign on my primary campaigns off weeks where I decided to do mad mage in an attempt to not prep as much as for my Homebrew second Punic war campaign that I even thought about the realms outside of Kemp's novels for the first time in many years.

It is sad to see what has happened to this place. I remember checking these forums almost every day back in college and there would be new and interesting post in many of the sub forums. Earlier this week when I came back here out of curiosity I found this thread and read through it and then looked on YouTube about various thoughts about the forgotten realms and we have Jordan the pH is silent with his 10 minute videos covering topics that should take 3 hours to talk about and that is the most original content that exists these days other than Salvatore.

Just tonight I watched the 2012 and 2013 Gen Con forgotten realms panels wow did they lie to everyone or switched course so badly that they might have well as lied to everyone. It's sad there is no reason to even look at new 5th edition materials on mad mage I find myself having to fix it more than use it and taking more inspiration from 3.x and earlier editions and those sourcebooks then the thin gruel that we are provided today.

They should just take the realms out back and shoot it in the head as opposed to keeping this malnourished cur alive in this state.

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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
972 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2019 :  08:41:59  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Much as I agree with you Kellemonster; I don't want the Realms to be dead - but at this point the best we can hope is that the Forgotten Realms IP gets sold by WotC and a hard reboot to the OGB era happens on the launch from the new company, in my opinion.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32452 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2019 :  14:53:02  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kellemonster

I've been a candlekeep forums lurker 4 about 15 years or more since maybe my sophomore year of college. I cannot agree more with the author of this thread. What I find surprising is that this thread has been able to exist on this forum with the opinion given about Ed Greenwood's novel writing which I agree is pretty bad especially the juvenile sex parts and the Mary Sues.


We tolerate dissenting opinions, so long as people are respectful.

I myself have said, multiple times, that while I am in awe of Ed as a world-builder, his fiction just doesn't work for me.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Kellemonster
Acolyte

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2019 :  18:49:11  Show Profile Send Kellemonster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And that's the thing, right? My favorite source book ever is serpent kingdoms, an Ed Greenwood masterpiece. So much lore, that pulls together so many deep questions about this world.

It's funny, my mad mage group includes some other 30-somethings, some of whom know 5e very well, others completely new, and one guy, around 50, who has played tons of dnd, but never got into the realms. I start sharing 3.x lore (which is what I cut my teeth on in high school) and all of them are eating it up saying "give me more!"

It really bugs me that 5th edition hides all the lore within adventures okay I am the DM for two different groups right now so it's unlikely I'm going to have time to play much in the near future. But I should not have to ruin The narrative of a potential adventure to learn about the 5th edition realms.

So much I think is just assumed that the only people that really care about the realms will just continue to play either old grey box 3.x.

It is as if wizards of the coast are afraid to publish any more novels or they just did the math and it wasn't profitable. Either way it's sad to see something that you've loved and grown up with on life support.

I have always had a hard time with getting into any Forgotten Realms books pre-Cormyr. When I was say, 12, I could get into the Elminster series, and the Avatar trilogy, but ugh, re-reading those now? Barf. Looking back, it was only their value as potential sources of information, not value as works of literature that mattered to me.

Sorry to highjack this thread, feel free to delete if you want, I mostly needed to get this out of my system and confront my own conflicted feelings about the realms.

It is such a good setting overall. But with a lot of flaws when you scratch the surface.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8339 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2019 :  20:54:39  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know, I wonder though how much of a lot of these products is Ed versus other authors and he helps. For instance, I never realized that Serpent Kingdoms was an Ed product (I have a bad habit of not paying attention to who authored what game product, except that I tend to notice Eric Boyd's or Steven Schend's stuff as being theirs for some reason, and I've noted Krash whenever its anything Impilture). Hell, I wonder if in the end if the authors themselves can separate out who wrote what.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
972 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2019 :  21:43:40  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Volo's Guides are the best content ever, in my opinion, and I would buy anything he published like that at a great cost (Volo's Guide to the Moonsea please!) - but his novels are an acquired taste.

I was SOOOOOO excited about the Knights of Myth Drannor series - 1348 era story of how the Knights met and became a force - but the execution of that amazing premise was so hard to read and made no sense (well documented in this thread my thoughts!). Ed's an amazing world builder obviously and his sourcebooks are my faves (along with Jeff Grubb). But his novels are best used as lore information.

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Kellemonster
Acolyte

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2019 :  22:42:05  Show Profile Send Kellemonster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It was always hard for me to get a real feel for the realms from the novels. We had the Troy "Death Star" Denning superhero realms, the Greenwood "magic in the realms is 5-15x more complicated with mantles, reshaping spells, etc. than they will let me put in a sourcebook but still everyone is flawed and shortsighted" realms, the RA Salvatore "wizards barely exist" realms, and the Byers "let's make the realms a less tongue in cheek order of the stick." (yes, with, in my mind, Kemp being the perfect blend of all of this).

I get that there are different authorial styles that go into all of this, but I think the problem goes beyond that. At the core, I have a hard time putting these different narratives into a shared world with a shared "(meta)physics".

If I had to pick a non-Kemp book that would exemplify what would be "core" realms, for the pre-3.x, it would be Cormyr (I agree with OP that Cormyr's dual authorship leads to the sum being more than its parts) or Dissolution. As different as the "power level" and tone of these books is from the other, I can see them both as being within the same universe. Dissolution also provides as great narrative reason why it's about such powerful people (crack team of elite drow dealing with an epic level quest).
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32452 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2019 :  05:00:00  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I always cringe when I see praise for the War of the Spider Queen books... Ye gods, I could not stand that series.

My issue with Ed's fiction hasn't been any of the other stuff people are mentioning. For me, it's just that I feel I've walked in on the middle of a movie. I get that the Realms is a vibrant place with a lot going on, but for me, showing this in a series of one-off vignettes that are unrelated to the main plot just pulls focus away from the main plot. And it's the same when the protagonist casually stumbles across multiple trysts/conspiring groups/random battles in the span of minutes.

I'd rather see a couple of subplots that get discovered during the course of the main plot and then developed further, rather than the brief flashes of unrelated events all happening simultaneously and in close proximity to each other.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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