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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
739 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2019 :  17:19:24  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I understood that a blade went dormant when you were the last (and unworthy) potential wielder of your House.

If there is a worthy wielder in a House, the sword will kill everyone who claims it until that worthy wielder does.

It also appears that a sword will "wait" for a worthy wielder (i.e. for the next generation) if there is no one available in the current House. This has been less well-explained in the sources though.

-- George Krashos



Didn't I just explain it?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6330 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2019 :  20:31:56  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I understood that a blade went dormant when you were the last (and unworthy) potential wielder of your House.

If there is a worthy wielder in a House, the sword will kill everyone who claims it until that worthy wielder does.

It also appears that a sword will "wait" for a worthy wielder (i.e. for the next generation) if there is no one available in the current House. This has been less well-explained in the sources though.

-- George Krashos



Didn't I just explain it?



Sorry Cards. Missed your illuminating response in all the excitement.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2362 Posts

Posted - 28 Feb 2019 :  21:31:47  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think the only question we're not sure of is whether a dormant blade would become momentarily active to fry a wielder - one who is NOT the last in the family's bloodline - who tries to wield it regardless of it being dormant. For example - if Elaith tired to draw the blade AFTER if fell dormant but also AFTER he had a daughter.

I argue it would. The blade is dormant - not dead. Its purpose still holds and part of that is to only be wielded by those of the bloodline who are worthy.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore

1078 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2019 :  09:47:13  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How about a Moonblade for rogues? Not all rogues are unworthy. Not all Rogue Houses are unworthy.

Take House Ahmaquissar for example.... A House of Evermeet, mostly Moon elves, Rogues, thieves, scoundrels and tricksters. You yourself put them in the spotlight. Or starlight. Elves of Evermeet has a nice little section just for them. They all follow Erevan Ilerese, the elven deity of Mischief and rogues, change and adventure.

I can see Elaith Craulnober being fond of this House. I mean that's what Erevan Ilerese represents after all. Change... Chaos, Trickery,
misadventure and devotion to the elven people.

Like I said before in another thread....

Curudin Ahmaquissar: Trickster-Touched Moon elf male of Evermeet. CR 32; Rogue 5/ Cleric 5/ Mischiefmaker 10/ Shadowtrick Priest 10 of Erevan Ilesere. Guildmaster of the Rogues of the Laughing Midnight, Lord of Laughingshadow Tower in Everlund, Arch-Duke of The Gambol in Silverymoon, and Mischiefmaker of the north.

All titles are given, not asked for, nor wanted by Curudin.

If ever you were to make a Moonblade for a rogue NPC this is it. You could tie this in with any event within the last 200 years.

Defiant to all authority, even his own god. Curudin walks a special path. Seeking ancient elven ruins to recover his heritage, he breaks the laws of elves and beasts. Some elves say it takes a special kind of outlaw to defeat the evil they face today. Other elves say he is a curse to the good will of Corellon.

Hero of the poor, Anti-hero of the rich, Mischiefmaker to all elves. Curudin cares only for himself and The Elven People! But mostly for himself. As a Chaotic sword, in the lungs of Law, he wonders what his next misadventure may be. Shall it be wenching and drinking? Stealing and thieving? Or simply upsetting the rule of law in any town or city he happens upon? This is his passion. This is his calling. To disrupt the rule of law. Neither friend nor foe, he is all you can expect in a stranger. To misjudge Curudin is to invoke the chances of luck and chaos. Why bet on him, when he's already bet on you!


So there you go Elaine Cunningham. A perfect NPC that I give freely to you as a story line or story arc or some such. I implore you to write about such things, even if it's on the internet. If I can do it in 30 minutes, than so can you.
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jamesewelch
Learned Scribe

106 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2019 :  15:05:32  Show Profile Send jamesewelch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just found this thread thanks to Copper Elven Vampire's bump.

I'd vote for all of the above. I'd buy it whether it's POD or PDF. I'd prefer more story/lore than mechanics.
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2019 :  20:06:33  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In Ms. Cunningham's novel "Elfshadow", chapter 7, pgs. 108-109, Danilo is speaking to Arilyn and mentions he wishes polish up her weapons. As his hand approaches the moonblade's sheath, he is struck by a "spark of blue light" that blackens the fingertip, but does not draw blood.

This seems to fit in with what Arilyn said earlier in the novel… that the moonblade would not function, as a weapon OR an artifact, against an innocent. Since it is difficult to imagine that Danilo Thann is “innocent”, I will assume this really means that the blade will not function as a weapon or artifact against a non-threatening, and non-evil, person.

So, how does this fit in with the known lore of Moonblades? Is it possible that this “spark of blue light” came from the sheath, and not the blade?
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2019 :  20:11:11  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

How about a Moonblade for rogues? Not all rogues are unworthy. Not all Rogue Houses are unworthy.

Take House Ahmaquissar for example.... A House of Evermeet, mostly Moon elves, Rogues, thieves, scoundrels and tricksters. You yourself put them in the spotlight. Or starlight. Elves of Evermeet has a nice little section just for them. They all follow Erevan Ilerese, the elven deity of Mischief and rogues, change and adventure.

I can see Elaith Craulnober being fond of this House. I mean that's what Erevan Ilerese represents after all. Change... Chaos, Trickery,
misadventure and devotion to the elven people.

Like I said before in another thread....

Curudin Ahmaquissar: Trickster-Touched Moon elf male of Evermeet. CR 32; Rogue 5/ Cleric 5/ Mischiefmaker 10/ Shadowtrick Priest 10 of Erevan Ilesere. Guildmaster of the Rogues of the Laughing Midnight, Lord of Laughingshadow Tower in Everlund, Arch-Duke of The Gambol in Silverymoon, and Mischiefmaker of the north.

All titles are given, not asked for, nor wanted by Curudin.

If ever you were to make a Moonblade for a rogue NPC this is it. You could tie this in with any event within the last 200 years.

Defiant to all authority, even his own god. Curudin walks a special path. Seeking ancient elven ruins to recover his heritage, he breaks the laws of elves and beasts. Some elves say it takes a special kind of outlaw to defeat the evil they face today. Other elves say he is a curse to the good will of Corellon.

Hero of the poor, Anti-hero of the rich, Mischiefmaker to all elves. Curudin cares only for himself and The Elven People! But mostly for himself. As a Chaotic sword, in the lungs of Law, he wonders what his next misadventure may be. Shall it be wenching and drinking? Stealing and thieving? Or simply upsetting the rule of law in any town or city he happens upon? This is his passion. This is his calling. To disrupt the rule of law. Neither friend nor foe, he is all you can expect in a stranger. To misjudge Curudin is to invoke the chances of luck and chaos. Why bet on him, when he's already bet on you!


So there you go Elaine Cunningham. A perfect NPC that I give freely to you as a story line or story arc or some such. I implore you to write about such things, even if it's on the internet. If I can do it in 30 minutes, than so can you.




A most remarkable post.
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Cosmar
Seeker

61 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2019 :  23:24:19  Show Profile Send Cosmar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Elaine! To answer your original question, I think all of those would be fun to read about, but I particularly would be interested in hooks for lost/unclaimed blades, bits of short fiction to illuminate the history of certain wielders, and recent history/ current state/future of elven monarchy. :)
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Athreeren
Acolyte

16 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2021 :  15:00:57  Show Profile Send Athreeren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did Ms. Cunningham eventually published her guide on moonblades? I just finished Evermeet: Island of the Elves, and I have a few questions about them (for her, or anyone here who is well versed in moonblade lore).

Some source books* claim that moonblades were made in Myth Drannor (Elves of Evermeet, Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, Minsc and Boo’s Journal of Vilainy…). But Evermeet dates their creation millennia before the founding of Myth Drannor: has anyone ever provided an explanation to reconcile these facts? Are the Myth Drannan swords actually elfblades?

When Ethlando explained the rules for the moonblades, he said: “When the sword's work is done, it becomes dormant. Its magic flees—and the essence of all its wielders is released to Arvandor”. And indeed, a dormant sword can be wielded by anybody. Yet we know that moonblades can be reawaken: do the souls return from Arvandor to the blade? If not, how can the moonblade still have its original powers (if the moonblade can have its powers without keeping the souls of its previous wielders, what was the point of denying them Arvandor?) In fact, toward the end of the book, Amlaruil gets to see Zaor during her short stay in Arvandor. His sword is still active, so why isn’t he in it?



And finally, the fact that only moon elves ever succeeded in wielding a moonblade made me wonder about reincarnation: when an elf return from Arvandor, do they always come back as the same race? If a moon elf would have been a worthy inheritor of a moonblade but dies before they got a chance to claim it, they should come back with a similar spirit. Of course, not being of their original family anymore, they would have no claim to the original moonblade at this point. But if their new gold elf family has an unclaimed moonblade, why shouldn’t they be able to claim it? The simplest explanation would be that this basically never happens, but I can’t find information one way or another regarding the race and family elves are reborn into (expect it’s probably not drow). Of course, I don’t think elves used to return from Arvandor back in second edition, so I don’t expect to find an explicit answer to whether gold elves who use to be moon elves would be able to claim a moonblade. But where can I find more information on the mechanisms of elven reincarnation?


Edit:

* It seems this idea was present from the very beginning, as in Elfshadow, Elaith tells Arilyn that "Many centuries past, the first moonblade was elvencrafted in Myth Drannor" (and here, there's really no reason for him to be lying. For once). Whether he's saying that the first of the moonblades was merely forged there or also enchanted, this is incompatible with moonblades being made 9,000 years before the founding of Myth Drannor. I guess this has to be interpreted as the first 25 of the 300 swords that were made were forged in Cormanthor, and enchanted in Evermeet...

Edited by - Athreeren on 10 Dec 2021 12:41:20
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
809 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2021 :  18:48:47  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
She has not published her guide, but she still pops in to Candlekeep. I'd ask her in her Chamber of Sages scroll.

Simplest explanation is that they made them millennia ago, but lost the knowledge somehow or culturally decided against making them for a long time until Myth Drannor's era.

As far as lore is concerned, elves should generally reincarnate as elves, but I don't think they have to necessarily come back as the same subrace of elves, though most probably do. That said, if you reincarnate, I would think you lose connection to your family and the blade. You're a new person.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35683 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2021 :  19:46:05  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For my money -- not that I'm Elaine or claiming to speak for her -- I'd say that part of the process of reawakening a moonblade involves a sort of petition to its former wielders. It may not be a direct call from the would-be wielder to the prior ones; the would-be wielder may not even be aware of it.

I'd guess that Corellon is the first level of approval. If he's not unfavorable to the reawakening, he then brings the former wielders into the loop, and they observe the would-be wielder and decide among themselves if they wish to return to the mortal realm for a while longer. If they agree and Corellon agrees, then the blade is reawakened.

I'd assume this hasn't been attempted oft and has rarely succeeded... Reawakened moonblades are likely about as common as vegan Malarites.

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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2362 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2021 :  06:12:21  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

For my money -- not that I'm Elaine or claiming to speak for her -- I'd say that part of the process of reawakening a moonblade involves a sort of petition to its former wielders. It may not be a direct call from the would-be wielder to the prior ones; the would-be wielder may not even be aware of it.

I'd guess that Corellon is the first level of approval. If he's not unfavorable to the reawakening, he then brings the former wielders into the loop, and they observe the would-be wielder and decide among themselves if they wish to return to the mortal realm for a while longer. If they agree and Corellon agrees, then the blade is reawakened.

I'd assume this hasn't been attempted oft and has rarely succeeded... Reawakened moonblades are likely about as common as vegan Malarites.


I think the best way to describe the moonblade is with a blade-rite just like the elfblades from Cormanthyr. Ethlando's wisdom is tied to the blade itself and "tests" the would-be wielder.

Therefore, any petition to reinstate the powers would go through that sentience.

In the alternative, there are at least 2 known ways of bypassing it that we know of (yes I know Elaine hates one of these :P ). These have no honor, and so would be frowned upon by anyone that otherwise would be worthy. Still, I don't think it unreasonable that a powerful magic that has a requirement to unlock, like a key, could also have a weakness and so that lock could be picked.

This strikes a good balance in my mind.

In addition to the blade-rite ritual, however, I would also treat moonblades like Tel'Kiira or even Selu'kiira. The more wielders it has, the more powerful it grows, and the more difficult to master. Eventually, any given blade would as a result overmatch any elf that tries to draw it.

My other 2 cents are that I was not a fan of the "unofficial" moonblade story from Elaine... It seemed to me more like a cop out for Elaith than anything else. Instead of being rejected because of his dark nature deep down, he is inevitably rejected for his AOK nature, and the darkness is only the result. Like I say, not a fan of that. I think Moonblades in general and their ability to judge one's character are something more with the addition of being able to see the part of one's character that duty and order have buried.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10979 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2021 :  12:49:12  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Regarding the moonblades being created prior to the creation of Myth Drannor.... bear in mind I'm saying this without checking anything... but didn't the elves have "elfblades" or somesuch prior to the moonblades? Are you sure you aren't crossing those two? I say this because I think I did that myself long ago.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Athreeren
Acolyte

16 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2021 :  12:57:13  Show Profile Send Athreeren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I've found the answer to my first question:

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

I have concluded, for a variety of reasons, I will not be pursuing any projects with the DMGuild.


Too bad, really.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2362 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2021 :  11:31:27  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Regarding the moonblades being created prior to the creation of Myth Drannor.... bear in mind I'm saying this without checking anything... but didn't the elves have "elfblades" or somesuch prior to the moonblades? Are you sure you aren't crossing those two? I say this because I think I did that myself long ago.



The creation date of the moonblades varies depending on the source. I think the best thing to do is go with the "several millennia back" origin...

The only issue here is the power level of blades that pass through 20+ wielders would be immense - like to insane levels. There are discussions / debates about this elsewhere here.

As far as the Elfblades, they are not directly related. The 3 known elfblades were swords from Cormanthyr that were wielded by the Coronal, and his two chief military officers - one a fighter and one a magic user. (or some variation on those lines).

I quite liked the treatment of these swords, especially the detailed mechanics of the blade right rituals (as I mentioned above). I think the mechanics of moonblades would be similar if flushed out.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6330 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2021 :  13:01:55  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Moonblades were created by Ethlando and his High Mage colleagues in -9000 DR as per the novel Evermeet (hardcover, p.287).

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2362 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2021 :  00:39:15  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

The Moonblades were created by Ethlando and his High Mage colleagues in -9000 DR as per the novel Evermeet (hardcover, p.287).

-- George Krashos



Yeah, the problem comes with Evermeet, Island of Elves, page 70. "created by the smiths of ancient Myth Drannor"

Since Myth Drannor was created on 261 DR, that's an issue.

Even if you decide that Cormanthyr is what the book means, that didn't come along until -4000 DR. Jhyrennstar was not founded until -8400 DR, which I believe covered where Myth Drannor was as well. Nothing fits, so the problem is with the sources.

The other problem is that over 10000 years, even elves would go through about 40 to 50 generations, and this makes the blade heir business much more complicated.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6330 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2021 :  09:57:51  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hear what you are saying but that doesn't change the fact that -9000 DR is when that event occurs. "Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves" (p.23) couldn't be clearer.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2362 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2021 :  15:25:10  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just another case of inconsistency over the years.

Elves of Evermeet was printed in 94.
Volo's Guide to All Things Magical was 96.

They had the older "forged in Myth Drannor"

Elaine's novel came out in 98.
Cormanthyr also came out in 98.

They had the new story from the novel.

While Elaine clearly took some cues from the earlier source book, on this she instead took artistic license. As moonblades were hers anyways from the earlier novels, I think that no one would object to that. I think part of it also stems from her dislike of the Starym Moonblade. A subconscious act not, she clearly chucked the history of that right out the window :P
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5846 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2021 :  15:37:25  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We always have such inconsistencies in realmslore and the approach should always be to try and reconcile such mistakes.

Easy fix. First creation was -9000. Then later additional rituals were performed to add extra moon blades for newer elven houses.

The knowledge of this ritual was lost in the fall of myth Drannor although its last usage could have been the founding of cormanthyr.


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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6330 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2021 :  12:00:49  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

The Moonblades were created by Ethlando and his High Mage colleagues in -9000 DR as per the novel Evermeet (hardcover, p.287).

-- George Krashos



Yeah, the problem comes with Evermeet, Island of Elves, page 70. "created by the smiths of ancient Myth Drannor"

Since Myth Drannor was created on 261 DR, that's an issue.

Even if you decide that Cormanthyr is what the book means, that didn't come along until -4000 DR. Jhyrennstar was not founded until -8400 DR, which I believe covered where Myth Drannor was as well. Nothing fits, so the problem is with the sources.

The other problem is that over 10000 years, even elves would go through about 40 to 50 generations, and this makes the blade heir business much more complicated.



Something had been niggling me about your point re the earlier references to "Myth Drannor". Found it: read "Cormanthyr: Empires of the Elves", p.21.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2362 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2021 :  10:44:33  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Something had been niggling me about your point re the earlier references to "Myth Drannor". Found it: read "Cormanthyr: Empires of the Elves", p.21.

-- George Krashos



I assume you're talking about the 'human historians call everything elvish Myth Drannor' bit.

My problem with that is it is the mother of all slippery slopes. If you start down the "this sourcebook is wrong because the source of the information was ignorant" path, then you can apply that to literally everything every published. Who's to say the source of CEoE was well informed? Might just be a know-it-all bloviating. There is no way to know for sure.

At that point, the entire idea of "canon" information becomes mute. There is no base-line since the line is rendered untrustworthy.

Unfortunately, this has always been the go-to answer, since the original idea was that Ed was this untrustworthy source via Elminster.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5846 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2021 :  12:52:10  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I dont see the problem with multiple additions to the moonblade ritual.

The original ritual as created by Ethlando defined the purpose and set the major components of the ritual. That is set in stone and cannot be changed or recreated because that information is lost.

Like most magic however, it can be altered slightly. Even powerful magical artefacts can be altered over time, magic is not immutable, it flows and ebbs and changes with time and can be moulded again with new magic users.

At various points in elven history new blades can be created and dedicated to newly emerging and powerful elven houses. These are lesser in power than the original moonblades because they are younger, but still have the same potential. This supplemental ritual is what was performed by High Mages across Faerun when Ethlando did the original major ritual, that way elven houses in far flung corners of the realms could get a moonblade without everyone having to travel to Ethlando, instead the High Mages of various realms performed this lesser ritual to add moonblades to the pot. The purpose of the original cannot be changed, but new things can be added that follow the same rules laid down by Ethlando.

The original ritual died with Ethlando, but the lesser ritual was kept alive in the memories and writings of various high mages. Even so, this ritual to add additional moonblades was eventually lost around the fall of myth drannor so it is no longer easily possible.

The proof would be to find a moonblade for an elven house that did not exist when the original ritual was performed. Might take some extensive research into elven houses though. If such a moonblade did exist then it surely must have been created after the original ritual was performed by Ethlando.


Just my thoughts on how you could reconcile conflicting sources. The original ritual still stands, its just that lesser rituals can add extra magic into that original.

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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2362 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2021 :  14:56:30  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I dont see the problem with multiple additions to the moonblade ritual.

The original ritual as created by Ethlando defined the purpose and set the major components of the ritual. That is set in stone and cannot be changed or recreated because that information is lost.

Like most magic however, it can be altered slightly. Even powerful magical artefacts can be altered over time, magic is not immutable, it flows and ebbs and changes with time and can be moulded again with new magic users.

At various points in elven history new blades can be created and dedicated to newly emerging and powerful elven houses. These are lesser in power than the original moonblades because they are younger, but still have the same potential. This supplemental ritual is what was performed by High Mages across Faerun when Ethlando did the original major ritual, that way elven houses in far flung corners of the realms could get a moonblade without everyone having to travel to Ethlando, instead the High Mages of various realms performed this lesser ritual to add moonblades to the pot. The purpose of the original cannot be changed, but new things can be added that follow the same rules laid down by Ethlando.

The original ritual died with Ethlando, but the lesser ritual was kept alive in the memories and writings of various high mages. Even so, this ritual to add additional moonblades was eventually lost around the fall of myth drannor so it is no longer easily possible.

The proof would be to find a moonblade for an elven house that did not exist when the original ritual was performed. Might take some extensive research into elven houses though. If such a moonblade did exist then it surely must have been created after the original ritual was performed by Ethlando.


Just my thoughts on how you could reconcile conflicting sources. The original ritual still stands, its just that lesser rituals can add extra magic into that original.




This I like better than the alternatives.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35683 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2021 :  15:49:38  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Something had been niggling me about your point re the earlier references to "Myth Drannor". Found it: read "Cormanthyr: Empires of the Elves", p.21.

-- George Krashos



I assume you're talking about the 'human historians call everything elvish Myth Drannor' bit.

My problem with that is it is the mother of all slippery slopes. If you start down the "this sourcebook is wrong because the source of the information was ignorant" path, then you can apply that to literally everything every published. Who's to say the source of CEoE was well informed? Might just be a know-it-all bloviating. There is no way to know for sure.

At that point, the entire idea of "canon" information becomes mute. There is no base-line since the line is rendered untrustworthy.

Unfortunately, this has always been the go-to answer, since the original idea was that Ed was this untrustworthy source via Elminster.



It's a better fix than "We'll test a family's worthiness over time but allow other families to come in later so that some families get judged over millennia but others get judged over just a few centuries."

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