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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 07 Dec 2021 :  19:46:05  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For my money -- not that I'm Elaine or claiming to speak for her -- I'd say that part of the process of reawakening a moonblade involves a sort of petition to its former wielders. It may not be a direct call from the would-be wielder to the prior ones; the would-be wielder may not even be aware of it.

I'd guess that Corellon is the first level of approval. If he's not unfavorable to the reawakening, he then brings the former wielders into the loop, and they observe the would-be wielder and decide among themselves if they wish to return to the mortal realm for a while longer. If they agree and Corellon agrees, then the blade is reawakened.

I'd assume this hasn't been attempted oft and has rarely succeeded... Reawakened moonblades are likely about as common as vegan Malarites.

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The Masked Mage
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2367 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2021 :  06:12:21  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

For my money -- not that I'm Elaine or claiming to speak for her -- I'd say that part of the process of reawakening a moonblade involves a sort of petition to its former wielders. It may not be a direct call from the would-be wielder to the prior ones; the would-be wielder may not even be aware of it.

I'd guess that Corellon is the first level of approval. If he's not unfavorable to the reawakening, he then brings the former wielders into the loop, and they observe the would-be wielder and decide among themselves if they wish to return to the mortal realm for a while longer. If they agree and Corellon agrees, then the blade is reawakened.

I'd assume this hasn't been attempted oft and has rarely succeeded... Reawakened moonblades are likely about as common as vegan Malarites.


I think the best way to describe the moonblade is with a blade-rite just like the elfblades from Cormanthyr. Ethlando's wisdom is tied to the blade itself and "tests" the would-be wielder.

Therefore, any petition to reinstate the powers would go through that sentience.

In the alternative, there are at least 2 known ways of bypassing it that we know of (yes I know Elaine hates one of these :P ). These have no honor, and so would be frowned upon by anyone that otherwise would be worthy. Still, I don't think it unreasonable that a powerful magic that has a requirement to unlock, like a key, could also have a weakness and so that lock could be picked.

This strikes a good balance in my mind.

In addition to the blade-rite ritual, however, I would also treat moonblades like Tel'Kiira or even Selu'kiira. The more wielders it has, the more powerful it grows, and the more difficult to master. Eventually, any given blade would as a result overmatch any elf that tries to draw it.

My other 2 cents are that I was not a fan of the "unofficial" moonblade story from Elaine... It seemed to me more like a cop out for Elaith than anything else. Instead of being rejected because of his dark nature deep down, he is inevitably rejected for his AOK nature, and the darkness is only the result. Like I say, not a fan of that. I think Moonblades in general and their ability to judge one's character are something more with the addition of being able to see the part of one's character that duty and order have buried.
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sleyvas
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11168 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2021 :  12:49:12  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Regarding the moonblades being created prior to the creation of Myth Drannor.... bear in mind I'm saying this without checking anything... but didn't the elves have "elfblades" or somesuch prior to the moonblades? Are you sure you aren't crossing those two? I say this because I think I did that myself long ago.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Athreeren
Acolyte

27 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2021 :  12:57:13  Show Profile Send Athreeren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I've found the answer to my first question:

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

I have concluded, for a variety of reasons, I will not be pursuing any projects with the DMGuild.


Too bad, really.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2367 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2021 :  11:31:27  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Regarding the moonblades being created prior to the creation of Myth Drannor.... bear in mind I'm saying this without checking anything... but didn't the elves have "elfblades" or somesuch prior to the moonblades? Are you sure you aren't crossing those two? I say this because I think I did that myself long ago.



The creation date of the moonblades varies depending on the source. I think the best thing to do is go with the "several millennia back" origin...

The only issue here is the power level of blades that pass through 20+ wielders would be immense - like to insane levels. There are discussions / debates about this elsewhere here.

As far as the Elfblades, they are not directly related. The 3 known elfblades were swords from Cormanthyr that were wielded by the Coronal, and his two chief military officers - one a fighter and one a magic user. (or some variation on those lines).

I quite liked the treatment of these swords, especially the detailed mechanics of the blade right rituals (as I mentioned above). I think the mechanics of moonblades would be similar if flushed out.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6427 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2021 :  13:01:55  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Moonblades were created by Ethlando and his High Mage colleagues in -9000 DR as per the novel Evermeet (hardcover, p.287).

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
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USA
2367 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2021 :  00:39:15  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

The Moonblades were created by Ethlando and his High Mage colleagues in -9000 DR as per the novel Evermeet (hardcover, p.287).

-- George Krashos



Yeah, the problem comes with Evermeet, Island of Elves, page 70. "created by the smiths of ancient Myth Drannor"

Since Myth Drannor was created on 261 DR, that's an issue.

Even if you decide that Cormanthyr is what the book means, that didn't come along until -4000 DR. Jhyrennstar was not founded until -8400 DR, which I believe covered where Myth Drannor was as well. Nothing fits, so the problem is with the sources.

The other problem is that over 10000 years, even elves would go through about 40 to 50 generations, and this makes the blade heir business much more complicated.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6427 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2021 :  09:57:51  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hear what you are saying but that doesn't change the fact that -9000 DR is when that event occurs. "Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves" (p.23) couldn't be clearer.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
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USA
2367 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2021 :  15:25:10  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just another case of inconsistency over the years.

Elves of Evermeet was printed in 94.
Volo's Guide to All Things Magical was 96.

They had the older "forged in Myth Drannor"

Elaine's novel came out in 98.
Cormanthyr also came out in 98.

They had the new story from the novel.

While Elaine clearly took some cues from the earlier source book, on this she instead took artistic license. As moonblades were hers anyways from the earlier novels, I think that no one would object to that. I think part of it also stems from her dislike of the Starym Moonblade. A subconscious act not, she clearly chucked the history of that right out the window :P
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2021 :  15:37:25  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We always have such inconsistencies in realmslore and the approach should always be to try and reconcile such mistakes.

Easy fix. First creation was -9000. Then later additional rituals were performed to add extra moon blades for newer elven houses.

The knowledge of this ritual was lost in the fall of myth Drannor although its last usage could have been the founding of cormanthyr.


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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6427 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2021 :  12:00:49  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

The Moonblades were created by Ethlando and his High Mage colleagues in -9000 DR as per the novel Evermeet (hardcover, p.287).

-- George Krashos



Yeah, the problem comes with Evermeet, Island of Elves, page 70. "created by the smiths of ancient Myth Drannor"

Since Myth Drannor was created on 261 DR, that's an issue.

Even if you decide that Cormanthyr is what the book means, that didn't come along until -4000 DR. Jhyrennstar was not founded until -8400 DR, which I believe covered where Myth Drannor was as well. Nothing fits, so the problem is with the sources.

The other problem is that over 10000 years, even elves would go through about 40 to 50 generations, and this makes the blade heir business much more complicated.



Something had been niggling me about your point re the earlier references to "Myth Drannor". Found it: read "Cormanthyr: Empires of the Elves", p.21.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2367 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2021 :  10:44:33  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Something had been niggling me about your point re the earlier references to "Myth Drannor". Found it: read "Cormanthyr: Empires of the Elves", p.21.

-- George Krashos



I assume you're talking about the 'human historians call everything elvish Myth Drannor' bit.

My problem with that is it is the mother of all slippery slopes. If you start down the "this sourcebook is wrong because the source of the information was ignorant" path, then you can apply that to literally everything every published. Who's to say the source of CEoE was well informed? Might just be a know-it-all bloviating. There is no way to know for sure.

At that point, the entire idea of "canon" information becomes mute. There is no base-line since the line is rendered untrustworthy.

Unfortunately, this has always been the go-to answer, since the original idea was that Ed was this untrustworthy source via Elminster.
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2021 :  12:52:10  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I dont see the problem with multiple additions to the moonblade ritual.

The original ritual as created by Ethlando defined the purpose and set the major components of the ritual. That is set in stone and cannot be changed or recreated because that information is lost.

Like most magic however, it can be altered slightly. Even powerful magical artefacts can be altered over time, magic is not immutable, it flows and ebbs and changes with time and can be moulded again with new magic users.

At various points in elven history new blades can be created and dedicated to newly emerging and powerful elven houses. These are lesser in power than the original moonblades because they are younger, but still have the same potential. This supplemental ritual is what was performed by High Mages across Faerun when Ethlando did the original major ritual, that way elven houses in far flung corners of the realms could get a moonblade without everyone having to travel to Ethlando, instead the High Mages of various realms performed this lesser ritual to add moonblades to the pot. The purpose of the original cannot be changed, but new things can be added that follow the same rules laid down by Ethlando.

The original ritual died with Ethlando, but the lesser ritual was kept alive in the memories and writings of various high mages. Even so, this ritual to add additional moonblades was eventually lost around the fall of myth drannor so it is no longer easily possible.

The proof would be to find a moonblade for an elven house that did not exist when the original ritual was performed. Might take some extensive research into elven houses though. If such a moonblade did exist then it surely must have been created after the original ritual was performed by Ethlando.


Just my thoughts on how you could reconcile conflicting sources. The original ritual still stands, its just that lesser rituals can add extra magic into that original.

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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2367 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2021 :  14:56:30  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I dont see the problem with multiple additions to the moonblade ritual.

The original ritual as created by Ethlando defined the purpose and set the major components of the ritual. That is set in stone and cannot be changed or recreated because that information is lost.

Like most magic however, it can be altered slightly. Even powerful magical artefacts can be altered over time, magic is not immutable, it flows and ebbs and changes with time and can be moulded again with new magic users.

At various points in elven history new blades can be created and dedicated to newly emerging and powerful elven houses. These are lesser in power than the original moonblades because they are younger, but still have the same potential. This supplemental ritual is what was performed by High Mages across Faerun when Ethlando did the original major ritual, that way elven houses in far flung corners of the realms could get a moonblade without everyone having to travel to Ethlando, instead the High Mages of various realms performed this lesser ritual to add moonblades to the pot. The purpose of the original cannot be changed, but new things can be added that follow the same rules laid down by Ethlando.

The original ritual died with Ethlando, but the lesser ritual was kept alive in the memories and writings of various high mages. Even so, this ritual to add additional moonblades was eventually lost around the fall of myth drannor so it is no longer easily possible.

The proof would be to find a moonblade for an elven house that did not exist when the original ritual was performed. Might take some extensive research into elven houses though. If such a moonblade did exist then it surely must have been created after the original ritual was performed by Ethlando.


Just my thoughts on how you could reconcile conflicting sources. The original ritual still stands, its just that lesser rituals can add extra magic into that original.




This I like better than the alternatives.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35998 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2021 :  15:49:38  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Something had been niggling me about your point re the earlier references to "Myth Drannor". Found it: read "Cormanthyr: Empires of the Elves", p.21.

-- George Krashos



I assume you're talking about the 'human historians call everything elvish Myth Drannor' bit.

My problem with that is it is the mother of all slippery slopes. If you start down the "this sourcebook is wrong because the source of the information was ignorant" path, then you can apply that to literally everything every published. Who's to say the source of CEoE was well informed? Might just be a know-it-all bloviating. There is no way to know for sure.

At that point, the entire idea of "canon" information becomes mute. There is no base-line since the line is rendered untrustworthy.

Unfortunately, this has always been the go-to answer, since the original idea was that Ed was this untrustworthy source via Elminster.



It's a better fix than "We'll test a family's worthiness over time but allow other families to come in later so that some families get judged over millennia but others get judged over just a few centuries."

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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2021 :  16:04:37  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The argument of judging people over a few centuries only holds if you know the end date

Even elves would have wondered if the ritual would end after a millennia, after 2, after 5. By then most probably assumed it would never end and so having a moonblade becomes just a status symbol.

New politically powerful families with high mages in their ranks could easily have forced new moonblade to be added. A high mage is a huge boon to an elven community, if you dont allow a family its moonblade you may not be able to count on that high mage during bad times when they are needed.
You want a mythal at myth Drannor, well we want a moonblade. Elves can be just as petty and grasping as humans, especially when it comes to status and symbology.

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The Masked Mage
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USA
2367 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2021 :  16:17:22  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This always bugged me too. I hated how it ended.

They are supposed to wait until there is only one, but they don't. Lets just end now because we know better than they did when they started this mess. :P

This plus the "ooh, you have the ruler's blade... its so long and hard.. I can touch it because we have some strange incestuous love connection" scene kind of put me off on the whole moonblade thing.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
35998 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2021 :  17:55:10  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

The argument of judging people over a few centuries only holds if you know the end date


No, it doesn't. The end date doesn't matter, because any family that's held moonblades for a millennia or two longer has an automatic advantage.

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Even elves would have wondered if the ritual would end after a millennia, after 2, after 5. By then most probably assumed it would never end and so having a moonblade becomes just a status symbol.


Not much of a status symbol, if anyone can get them.

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

New politically powerful families with high mages in their ranks could easily have forced new moonblade to be added. A high mage is a huge boon to an elven community, if you dont allow a family its moonblade you may not be able to count on that high mage during bad times when they are needed.


That's fine. If they don't help the community, the community doesn't help them.

Besides, it's not like high mages are limited to just specific families.

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

You want a mythal at myth Drannor, well we want a moonblade. Elves can be just as petty and grasping as humans, especially when it comes to status and symbology.



Again, high mages are not limited to specific families. One family refuses to let their high mage participate? Fine, pick one from the other few hundred high mages available.

Besides, in both of those scenarios, you've got a family willing to hang the rest of the community out to dry if they don't get what they want. Congratulations, they've just proved themselves unworthy.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Dec 2021 18:01:24
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sleyvas
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USA
11168 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2021 :  21:15:38  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

The argument of judging people over a few centuries only holds if you know the end date

Even elves would have wondered if the ritual would end after a millennia, after 2, after 5. By then most probably assumed it would never end and so having a moonblade becomes just a status symbol.

New politically powerful families with high mages in their ranks could easily have forced new moonblade to be added. A high mage is a huge boon to an elven community, if you dont allow a family its moonblade you may not be able to count on that high mage during bad times when they are needed.
You want a mythal at myth Drannor, well we want a moonblade. Elves can be just as petty and grasping as humans, especially when it comes to status and symbology.



High Mages are "in general" community oriented, given that much of their magic is meant for cooperative use. You would need to bear that in mind as well. Unless they personally planned to wield the moonblade.... but then anyone that was that selfish would likely get killed by a moonblade.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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TBeholder
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2201 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2021 :  08:40:26  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage


Yeah, the problem comes with Evermeet, Island of Elves, page 70. "created by the smiths of ancient Myth Drannor"

Since Myth Drannor was created on 261 DR, that's an issue.

Even if you decide that Cormanthyr is what the book means, that didn't come along until -4000 DR. Jhyrennstar was not founded until -8400 DR, which I believe covered where Myth Drannor was as well. Nothing fits, so the problem is with the sources.
As written - it's one sources that contradicts all others.
With some leeway - yes, Elven Court was part of territories that became Cormanthyr, so this looks like using "Myth Drannor" for "Cormanthyr" with extra anachronism.

quote:
The other problem is that over 10000 years, even elves would go through about 40 to 50 generations, and this makes the blade heir business much more complicated.

Sure, but why not? Considering that requirements grow increasingly higher and more specific, it makes perfect sense that moonblade clans would increasingly skip generations.

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

New politically powerful families with high mages in their ranks could easily have forced new moonblade to be added. A high mage is a huge boon to an elven community, if you dont allow a family its moonblade you may not be able to count on that high mage during bad times when they are needed.

As opposed to what was going on anyway?
Besides, there are always other clans eager to step in whenever there's an opportunity to demonstrate their loyalty to the realm and perhaps reap some glory and perks in process.
quote:
You want a mythal at myth Drannor, well we want a moonblade. Elves can be just as petty and grasping as humans, especially when it comes to status and symbology.

This mythal was wizardly (Mythanthor was an experienced High Mage who after one backlash lost the ability to wield High Magic, per Cormanthyr), so moot point. Even if it wasn't, under the circumstances a flash-mob of potential primary and secondary casters willing to demonstrate they are "better elves than those arrogant Starym" would converge on the palace at the speed of hot rumour.
Also,
quote:
Cormanthyr (Myth Drannor's Mythal):
The secondary casters were four in number; by the secret design of the Coronal, the Srinshee, and Mythanthor, all were
confidentially High Mages (to control the mythal and its power with their greater knowledge of magic, should this
wizardly method prove unstable)

As in, there were also High Mages known as such to other High Mages and a few others, but not advertising this.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 20 Dec 2021 09:12:52
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6427 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2021 :  12:30:30  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

This always bugged me too. I hated how it ended.

They are supposed to wait until there is only one, but they don't. Lets just end now because we know better than they did when they started this mess. :P

This plus the "ooh, you have the ruler's blade... its so long and hard.. I can touch it because we have some strange incestuous love connection" scene kind of put me off on the whole moonblade thing.



They weren't supposed to wait until there was only one. The magic number was 24. From that pool, the ruler would be chosen.

-- George Krashos


"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 20 Dec 2021 12:31:29
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Gary Dallison
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5936 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2021 :  14:49:36  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The question is, did that 24 include the starym moonblade or not, because that one was corrupted and could have tainted the magic and triggered it earlier than it would normally have done.

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sleyvas
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USA
11168 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2021 :  15:51:43  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage


This plus the "ooh, you have the ruler's blade... its so long and hard.. I can touch it because we have some strange incestuous love connection" scene kind of put me off on the whole moonblade thing.



Well, the later scene where he was explaining "um, this never happens, baby... it must be a curse... um, by the drow... yeah, the drow... that's it... They must have put a curse on the ruler's blade, that's why its not working as it should".

Or at least that's how I'm remembering forever afterward now in my headcanon. Probably didn't happen that way.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 20 Dec 2021 15:54:06
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

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35998 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2021 :  16:40:09  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

The question is, did that 24 include the starym moonblade or not, because that one was corrupted and could have tainted the magic and triggered it earlier than it would normally have done.



Are you suggesting that having its judgment feature broken means it could deactivate other moonblades?

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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2021 :  17:16:20  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Look what happened with the vampire manshoon and the linked stasis clones. One aberration in the mix and the whole chain went nuts.

A trapped primordial or avatar of some rotting elder evil touches the starym blade thereby weakening and removing the restrictions on that blade. All the blades are linked, who could predict what havoc such a taint would wreak on the moonblade magic. The next deactivated moonblade could have caused it to end regardless of the number of remaining blades, it could have caused the magic to pick the oldest blade or the closest to the recently deactivated blade. It could have caused the blades to reject every new wielder or altered the selection criteria in increasingly perverse ways.

Imagine a computer code generating decreasing linear number sequence, then add in alteration to the sequence, it throws off everything.

Now imagine a being of pure rot and decay tinkered with the number sequence and I expect he introduced an exponential decay constant into the formula that causes it to spiral out of control, but he wouldnt stop there, his tinkering would spread like a virus to all other parts of the code and cause them to go wrong as well.

Elven high magic is not immune to decay, the warping of mythals over time or when hit by yugoloths or undead etc show that it is quite susceptible to change in unexpected ways.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11168 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2021 :  17:42:56  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Look what happened with the vampire manshoon and the linked stasis clones. One aberration in the mix and the whole chain went nuts.

A trapped primordial or avatar of some rotting elder evil touches the starym blade thereby weakening and removing the restrictions on that blade. All the blades are linked, who could predict what havoc such a taint would wreak on the moonblade magic. The next deactivated moonblade could have caused it to end regardless of the number of remaining blades, it could have caused the magic to pick the oldest blade or the closest to the recently deactivated blade. It could have caused the blades to reject every new wielder or altered the selection criteria in increasingly perverse ways.

Imagine a computer code generating decreasing linear number sequence, then add in alteration to the sequence, it throws off everything.

Now imagine a being of pure rot and decay tinkered with the number sequence and I expect he introduced an exponential decay constant into the formula that causes it to spiral out of control, but he wouldnt stop there, his tinkering would spread like a virus to all other parts of the code and cause them to go wrong as well.

Elven high magic is not immune to decay, the warping of mythals over time or when hit by yugoloths or undead etc show that it is quite susceptible to change in unexpected ways.



Hats off.... interesting idea, and good comparison... Given that I once made a change contingency spell, I really appreciate this idea.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35998 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2021 :  18:43:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Look what happened with the vampire manshoon and the linked stasis clones. One aberration in the mix and the whole chain went nuts.

A trapped primordial or avatar of some rotting elder evil touches the starym blade thereby weakening and removing the restrictions on that blade. All the blades are linked, who could predict what havoc such a taint would wreak on the moonblade magic. The next deactivated moonblade could have caused it to end regardless of the number of remaining blades, it could have caused the magic to pick the oldest blade or the closest to the recently deactivated blade. It could have caused the blades to reject every new wielder or altered the selection criteria in increasingly perverse ways.

Imagine a computer code generating decreasing linear number sequence, then add in alteration to the sequence, it throws off everything.

Now imagine a being of pure rot and decay tinkered with the number sequence and I expect he introduced an exponential decay constant into the formula that causes it to spiral out of control, but he wouldnt stop there, his tinkering would spread like a virus to all other parts of the code and cause them to go wrong as well.

Elven high magic is not immune to decay, the warping of mythals over time or when hit by yugoloths or undead etc show that it is quite susceptible to change in unexpected ways.



Where does it say that all moonblades are linked?

And either way, the taint for the Starym blade was disabling a single power within that blade. There was no tinkering with number sequences or any of that other stuff.

Lastly, even if you were right and the whole thing was somehow screwed up -- despite there not being anything that even implies this was the case -- it still would have been evident when families presented their blades. At that point, it's simple math.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2021 :  21:25:50  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well moonblades are linked by the high magic that makes them all part of the same magic that selects a ruler of Evermeet, but i'm guessing that doesnt count.

As for only affecting one thing, doesnt seem like a very Moander thing to do.

Illitryn Starym: "Here's my magic sword, can you remove the restrictions but dont touch anything else?"

Moander: "Of course, i promise not to mess anything up, there you go, if there's anything you need sorting bring it my way."



And of course whenever anything bad happens involving a god everyone everywhere always knows about it immediately because the good gods tell on them.

Elf: "Hey my magic sword just went dormant, let me just commune with Corellon Larethian - i have him on speed dial."
"Yeah, these swords are broken, and there is an evil sword that can teleport that caused it all, we really need to destroy that. Here's the location and list of all it's powers."

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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
668 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2021 :  22:38:41  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The moonblades had the same high magic ritual that gave them all the same judgement powers and ability to gain customized powers accordingly to the wielder. That does not mean the blades were in constant contact with each other after the ritual concluded and the individual blades bonded with their wielders. In fact, gaining customized powers according to the elf wielding a moonblade would suggest the moonblades operated independently of each other once the initial ritual concluded.

Of course Moander would gladly have corrupted any and all moonblades given a chance. If Gary Dallison's claim that Moander indeed corrupted all moonblades were true, then why hadn't at least one non-Starym house detected something, well, off about their own blade.

So applying Occam's Razor, I claim Moander corrupted only the Starym moonblade and no other moonblade during Ilitran's encounter. If another elf from another house wielding another moonblade approached Moander, that is certainly possible, but we have no evidence.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35998 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2021 :  23:13:14  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

The moonblades had the same high magic ritual that gave them all the same judgement powers and ability to gain customized powers accordingly to the wielder. That does not mean the blades were in constant contact with each other after the ritual concluded and the individual blades bonded with their wielders. In fact, gaining customized powers according to the elf wielding a moonblade would suggest the moonblades operated independently of each other once the initial ritual concluded.

Of course Moander would gladly have corrupted any and all moonblades given a chance. If Gary Dallison's claim that Moander indeed corrupted all moonblades were true, then why hadn't at least one non-Starym house detected something, well, off about their own blade.

So applying Occam's Razor, I claim Moander corrupted only the Starym moonblade and no other moonblade during Ilitran's encounter. If another elf from another house wielding another moonblade approached Moander, that is certainly possible, but we have no evidence.



Agreed.

I also wonder at his willingness to involve Moander in this theoretical corruption of all the moonblades, given his oft-stated hatred of having the gods do anything more than sitting like a bump on a log.

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