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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5537 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2021 :  20:02:55  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So got about midway through the crypt of the Shadowking as they are searching for the tomb of Tarek Talembar.

I thought the name Talembar sounded familiar and recalled the kingdom of Elembar around the Delimbyr Vale.

Looking at the history of Elembar (as noted in Under Illefarn Anew), the people around the Cloud Peaks were forced out by the forces of Shoon II. A number of them settled in the Fields of the Dead and the Greenfields. Tavaray experienced this influx of migrants around 82 DR and they included a number of Eldathyn druids including one named Elembar

Now the Fields of the Dead and the Greenfields are of course the lands that Ebenfar would later come to dominate.

So Talembar and Elembar could be the names of related clans of the people that lived in the Western Heartlands. It looks like the Calishar Emirates existed at least around 0 DR and forced the people northwards with some settling in the Western Heartlands and others continuing north to Delimbiyr.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6154 Posts

Posted - 06 Mar 2021 :  00:29:31  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

Valashar was founded in 361 DR. Azoun and his army fought them in 376 DR. It was in response to me saying it took 15 years before Azoun got angry enough to do something about Valashar taxing merchants.

Edit: Oh, and if the history of the Darkhold as delineated in the Secrets of the Darkhold DMs Guild product is accurate (Ed was listed as being involved in that product so it is possible it could be canon), there was a Giant Emperor in the Darkhold up until around 400 DR. That could be a significant power in the area.



Valashar was founded in 321 DR.

And Ed provided the Pereghost backstory and advice re the geography of the region to the developers of that product, not the history part.

-- George Krashos



So, the notes in the FR Wiki, which specifically mentions you, is incorrect? https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Valashar_(kingdom)

And THANK YOU for that clarification.



Well, as a fan I can do what I want - and have - but as a scholar of the Realms, I don't like to invalidate the dates in GHotR unless I have to absolutely do so. But in checking my "home timeline", I can see I did absolutely that - I have gone with the 361 DR founding date.

And delving back further, I can see that the last draft GHotR timeline that we handed in went with the 361 DR date. Someone after that went back and looked at Lands of Intrigue obviously (and Demihuman Deities as well, p.164) and added in the 321 DR date again. On top of that they added in in an anomalous 356 DR date as well which is ... plain wrong and clearly given the "35 years" reference, someone struggling to tie it all in. No idea who that might have been at TSR although Kim Mohan (who did a great job) was our editor.

So in a nutshell, yes, you are right. 361 and 376 are THE dates and the 321 and 356 in GHotR should be consigned to the historical dust bin.

And in relation to the 15 years bit, the 361 DR reference makes it clear that it's sorting out its neighbours first before expanding north - hence the Meiritin reference. It should also be noted that when Valashar was founded Shoon VII was still in power - a far more subtle and calculating individual than his successor Shaani in 367 DR who was very expansionistic and clearly gave Ashar the "green light" in 376 DR; and then was too weak to do much about Crown Prince Azoun's marauding foray into Shoon lands, Alexander the Great style.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 06 Mar 2021 00:30:34
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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
667 Posts

Posted - 06 Mar 2021 :  02:49:50  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Well, as a fan I can do what I want - and have - but as a scholar of the Realms, I don't like to invalidate the dates in GHotR unless I have to absolutely do so. But in checking my "home timeline", I can see I did absolutely that - I have gone with the 361 DR founding date.

And delving back further, I can see that the last draft GHotR timeline that we handed in went with the 361 DR date. Someone after that went back and looked at Lands of Intrigue obviously (and Demihuman Deities as well, p.164) and added in the 321 DR date again. On top of that they added in in an anomalous 356 DR date as well which is ... plain wrong and clearly given the "35 years" reference, someone struggling to tie it all in. No idea who that might have been at TSR although Kim Mohan (who did a great job) was our editor.

So in a nutshell, yes, you are right. 361 and 376 are THE dates and the 321 and 356 in GHotR should be consigned to the historical dust bin.

And in relation to the 15 years bit, the 361 DR reference makes it clear that it's sorting out its neighbours first before expanding north - hence the Meiritin reference. It should also be noted that when Valashar was founded Shoon VII was still in power - a far more subtle and calculating individual than his successor Shaani in 367 DR who was very expansionistic and clearly gave Ashar the "green light" in 376 DR; and then was too weak to do much about Crown Prince Azoun's marauding foray into Shoon lands, Alexander the Great style.

-- George Krashos



I hit the same thing when I was assembling my timeline. That caused a lot of confusion until I found the Wiki note. Thank you again for your clarification.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5537 Posts

Posted - 06 Mar 2021 :  12:11:32  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm glad that's clarified as that confused the hell out of me for a while.


The more I read about the shadevar in cryot of the shadowking the more I think they are not the same as the shadevar of myth and legend

The creature in the book is human sized, humanoid, stronger and faster and regenerates all wounds but is in now way comparable to a creature born before the world itself that required azuth to personally trap them in the shadows tar and fire them into the cosmos.

The legends itself around the shadevar dont make sense either which makes me think they could be explained by corruption over time and with other legends.


So the legend of the shadevar is that there were 13 of them. Born before shar and selune etc etc. They were around millennia ago and enslaved by bhaal but even he could not control them forever. In the end azuth himself trapped them in the shadows tar and fired them into the cosmos.

Now this doesnt work. Bhaal didn't exist millennia ago, he was still in netheril right up until its fall and probably went south to calimshan before heading back up to this region, and this is all after he achieved demigod status.

Azuth also didn't exist until after the fall of netheril, so neither of them could be around millennia ago. Which means if the legend is taken literally then azuth got rid of them around -339 DR by hurling them into the cosmos, but 300 years later they were back and crashing into the high moor as that's where the shadowstar fell to transform verraketh.

There is no way the shadevar in the book is powerful enough to challenge bhaal or azuth.


So here's my thought. The shadevar are detailed in the malebdar, it's an encyclopedia, but it was written by many authors over many centuries and I doubt verraketh allowed it to be written while he was alive (containing secrets about his best stuff) which means it was written after the events, probably by everard farseer, hence his love of the book.

The authors confused the pets of verraketh with the shadevar of legend which they probably heard of from netherese migrants. It cant be a coincidence that shadovar and shadevar are similar words and that there are 13 shadevar and 13 sons of telemont tanthul.

So these shadevar were just monsters created by verraketh, possibly out of his own children and time corrupted the tales

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
667 Posts

Posted - 06 Mar 2021 :  16:08:54  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
So here's my thought. The shadevar are detailed in the malebdar, it's an encyclopedia, but it was written by many authors over many centuries and I doubt verraketh allowed it to be written while he was alive (containing secrets about his best stuff) which means it was written after the events, probably by everard farseer, hence his love of the book.

The authors confused the pets of verraketh with the shadevar of legend which they probably heard of from netherese migrants. It cant be a coincidence that shadovar and shadevar are similar words and that there are 13 shadevar and 13 sons of telemont tanthul.

So these shadevar were just monsters created by verraketh, possibly out of his own children and time corrupted the tales



That works if you exclude Everard Farseer. He supposedly died long before Cormyrian expats founded the cities of the Chionthar. If the Shadowking conquered those very same cities, the two couldn't have been contemporaries.

Edit: Removed the misremembered Abbey reference in the original posting.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents

Edited by - TheIriaeban on 06 Mar 2021 18:04:04
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3534 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2021 :  05:31:41  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Am I the only person who instantly thought Sailor Moon when it came to the shadevari?

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of FaerŻn
Vol I- The Elves of FaerŻn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5537 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2021 :  13:56:03  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What do people think to the shadowking being related to tarek talembar.

Both are from the same region, both possess an incredibly rare mastery of shadow magic and the shadowking trusted him enough to help him make the night stone (admittedly he thought he was a troll but that doesnt make sense as trolls are rubbish at crafting magic artefacts and when I think about it the shadevar as described in the novel are very troll like with their jutting tusks, sharp talons etc).

I'm thinking tarek like the other shadevar were all formerly verraketh children or descendants or relatives (nieces and nephews) that he transformed to make a host of super servants that were enslaved to his will. But tarek either failed to transform and pretended to still be one, or he kept his freewill and regained his humanity after completing the night stone.


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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5537 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2021 :  15:14:22  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
By way of supporting evidence, Ed recently gave statistics of the prevalence of people with some form of the Gift.

1 in 9000. Of those about 1 in 40000 thousand can do cantrips, 1 in 70000 can do 1st or 2nd level spells.

Now a millenia ago the population of the northern western heartlands (not the calishar emirates) would have been small, it's a wild, uncivilized land filled with tribes of talfir and tethyrian.

I wouldn't be surprised if 9000 was about the total population of talfir here.

Verraketh may have already had this shadow magic gift before touching the shadowstar (perhaps that's is what drew him to it ir why it drew him).

Alternatively the shadowstar could have imbued him with this gift.

The chances of another person having a gift that allowed them to use shadow magic/song is not 1 in 9000 (that is just the chance of them having a gift, there are hundreds of types of magic gifts) it's more like 1 in a million.

So the maths are in favour of verraketh and tarek talembar being related.

Verraketh hunting down all his relatives and transforming them into shadevari would explain why only 3 shadow magic / song users survived to the present day (assuming magic gift is like a recessive gene and not all children inherit it).

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
667 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2021 :  15:51:52  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believe you mean Talek Telembar (I couldn't find the name Tarek in a search of Crypt of the Shadowking). If you are referring to Talek, you will find out more about him as you read both Crypt of the Shadowking and Curse of the Shadowmage. I don't want to spoil it for you.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5537 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2021 :  15:57:39  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Spoil away, I'm reading it for the lore, not the experience. I dont recall much more being revealed in the crypt novels so perhaps it's in the next one but I'm a good few novels away from that

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1804 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2021 :  16:18:52  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Spoil away, I'm reading it for the lore, not the experience. I dont recall much more being revealed in the crypt novels so perhaps it's in the next one but I'm a good few novels away from that



I would recommend readding both novels and all the short stories together. You get a comprehensive view of the lore from the region and there are lots of ties between them you might not remember if you space them apart.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5537 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2021 :  16:41:18  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, you've convinced me, but I'm not reading the drizzt or cadderley novels one after the other.

I'm looking forward to the cormyr and elminster series

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
667 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2021 :  17:11:27  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Spoil away, I'm reading it for the lore, not the experience. I dont recall much more being revealed in the crypt novels so perhaps it's in the next one but I'm a good few novels away from that



I would recommend readding both novels and all the short stories together. You get a comprehensive view of the lore from the region and there are lots of ties between them you might not remember if you space them apart.



Ok, now you got me worried on what I could be missing. The FR Wiki entries for Iriaebor, Sunset Vale, and Sunset Mountains doesn't mention any of the short stories. Do you have easy access to a list of them that you could provide?

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5537 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2021 :  17:27:30  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One in realms of valour featuring tyveris

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
667 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2021 :  01:08:35  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

One in realms of valour featuring tyveris



Yep, I think I found them:

Realms of Valor: Tyveris
Realms of Infamy: Ravendas
Reamls of Magic: Morhion


"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5537 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2021 :  19:18:20  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Crypt of the Shadowking (1363 DR)


Iriaebor Lore
Dark labyrinthine sewers far beneath the city, a crack in the sewers under the Bronís palace (a ravine / chasm / opening ????) leads down to a rough stone natural cavern even further beneath the city, with a further chasm in it with a red glow emanating from it, a voice (the Shadowking) emanating from the chasm. [prologue]
Bron, city lord. [prologue]
The Shadowking can restore all wounds, animate the dying [prologue]
Iriaebor is the farthest point up the River Chionthar that ships can travel, merchants forced to unload goods and transfer them to overland caravans heading to Sembia and Cormyr. This is what makes Iriaebor rich [1]
Great ironbound gates in the south wall [1]
Gates unguarded before Cutter was in charge, merchants and travellers arrived day and night, now the gates are guarded day and night [1]
Cutter, rules Iriaebor from the High Tower [1]
New City below the Tor, has broad, tree lined avenues [1]
The Tor, a narrow hilltop, lies in the centre of the New City, half a league long and rises 300 ft above the ground. The Old City covers The Tor. Within 100 years of the city founding all space on the Tor was taken and people had to build towers (build up). After several centuries the Old City was a profusion of tall spindly towers bound by bridges that arched precariously between them [1]
A narrow road winds back and forth up the steep southern face of the Tor. [1]
Normally the cityís streets are as busy at night as during the day with jongleurs, merchants, nobles, and thieves.
Sign of the Dreaming Dragon, inn on the very western edge of The Tor, half the building juts over the precipice, supported by a maze of stout oaken beams anchored into the Tor. Three stories, half timbered, gabled roof. Intricate sign of a green dragon sleeping on a mountain of golden treasure. Common room, fireplace, wooden bar. Jolle owns the inn with his wife. Walled garden kept behind the inn, secret door (marked by a wrought iron arch overgrown with morning glories) that leads into a narrow alley behind the wall. Serves a foamy red ale, Estahís own brew [1,3,9]
Jolle, stout, curly haired halfling, nut brown eyes. Owns the Sign of the Dreaming Dragon inn with his wife [3]
Estah, halfling woman, healer, owns the Sign of the Dream ing Dragon inn, married to Jolle. Brown eyes, broad rosy cheeked face. Owns a magical silver amulet (augments healing), given to her by her mother, engraved with the symbol of Eldath, Goddess of the Singing Waters. Married Jolle a few years after the Fellowship of the Dreaming Dragon disbanded. Has 2 children, Pog and Nog. [3]
The Wandering Wyvern, inn , serves a good drink and a good nights rest. A blocky, comfortable looking building with the High Tower looming above it. Innkeep is a nervous little man. Located on or near the Street of Jewels [1]
The former Bron disappeared about a year ago [1]
Cutters rule started immediately after Bron, started out okay but more laws were made each day that curtailed more and more freedoms [1]
Silver tower above and azure river, the traditional symbol of Iriaebor Cutter added a crimson moon rising behind the tower [1]
Guards of Iriaebor wear a black leather jerkin with the symbol of Iriaebor emblazoned on it [1]
The Street of Jewels, leads on to the Street of Lanterns in the Old City. Street of Lanterns is an unsavoury part of the city. [1]
The High Tower stands upon the highest part of The Tor, made from the same dark stone quarried from the The Tor. Much blood shed in its construction, those who laid its foundations were long dead when the last stone was of the turret was set in place. [2]
The wall of the first quarry used to make the High Tower collapsed killing a score of workers and Eradabus the first city lord. A tale well known in the city. Stones of the top half of the High Tower are a slight different shade to the lower half as a result. [2]
Eradabus, first lord of Iriaebor, often laboured beside its workers as a gesture of goodwill [2]
Melsar, second lord of Iriaebor, began a new quarry to finish the High Tower [2]
Lady Saresia, third lord of Iriaebor, the High Tower was finished during her reign. Held the first Argument in the vast great hall. [2]
Meeting in the High Tower is called an Argument [2]
Ravendas and the Zhentarim had taken over the city of Iriaebor about a year ago [3]
The Prince and Pauper, a discreet gambling den on the Street of Lanterns, looks like an abandoned building. Owned by Cormik. Frequented by nobles, merchants, etc. Secret chamber hidden beneath it [3,19]
Cormik, nondescript looking man, wears ostentatious clothes and a black eye patch. Owns a number of expensive Sembian tapestries and a jewelled stiletto with a key hidden in the pommel. Cormik is a fence of property and information, is able to intercept messages headed for Lord Ravendas [3,4]
Cormik has agents in Berdusk and Elversult making deals for weapons and money [6]
Jad and Kevrek, massive warriors, guard at the Prince and Pauper, carries a shortsword and knows how to use it [3]
Dario, dark haired young man, works for Cormik. Cormik thinks of him as a son. Slain by the shadevari who mistook him for Caledan (he was wearing Caledanís cloak) [4]
Half the population are starving, all goods coming into Iriaebor leave by caravan heading east (Darkhold????). Ravendas keeps the Council of Lords in her pocket and the Merchants Circle dangling by their purse strings. Trade agreements are not profitable but accidents befall those who do not comply [4]
Zhentarim kidnap people in their homes and anyone out after dark. They end up in the dungeons and never seen again [4]
Excavations deep beneath the Tor, press gangs used in the work [4]
A few merchants, guild masters, and lords of the council did stand up to Ravendas when things started to go bad. Ravendas had them all hanged [4]
There are small, isolated pockets of resistance in Iriaebor. They meet in basements and abandoned towers in secret. They are not connected but Cormik knows about them and could funnel messages and supplies to them [4]
Ravendas has tax collectors on the roads gathering harsh tariffs from all who try to avoid Iriaebor. The money is delivered by wagon every evening through the East Gate [5]
Guards on longer ride patrol on the roads outside Iriaebor. Bandits and brigands increase as a result [5]
Brim, one of the Zhent guards in Iriaebor. Slain by Mari???? [5]
Avdis, Zhent, counts the tariffs. Flabby, middle aged, rat like nose and beady eyes. Obsessed with money [5]
Countinghouse, a tall tower in the shadow of the High Tower [5]
Warship in the docks burned down by the resistance [6]
Every blacksmith within 50 miles is making weapons and armour for Ravendas [6]
Ravendas has the weapons trade under control [6]
North Gate, sheep driven through it for slaughter [7]
Many of the Zhentarim in Iriaebor worship Cyric (from Darkhold????) [7]
Fountain Square, a central plaza, renamed Scarlet Square by Ravendas. Two gigantic statues of grey stone (30 ft tall), one a stern looking man, the other a regal woman. Named the Grey Watchers, supposedly found by Ravendas in a keep in Sunset Mountains, placed on opposite sides of the square watching each other. Priest of Cyric able to animate the statues through the circlet crowns they wear (they glow purple during this) using an amulet made of dark steel, if blood spilled on the amulet the statues run amok [7]
Free Market in the New City
Tunnels beneath Iriaebor extend for miles, Ravendas has around 1000 people excavating the tunnels
Purple Masks thieves guild of Iriaebor, most of its members have been avoiding Ravendas (she costs them lots of money and is untrustworthy). Purple Masks guild located beneath the Temple of Selune. Members clad in grey, wear a silken violet mask. Labyrinth of tunnels and chambers beneath the temple, elaborate and richly decorated headquarters.
Tembris, member of the Purple Masks guild. He did work for Ravendas when she first came to Iriaebor (kill the Bron????). Old man, mute from birth (which is why Ravendas hired him), Ravendas cut out his eyes as a reward for his work
Temple of Selune, built of pale marble, graceful columns support the intricate facade, behind which is a lofty tapering spire. Mahogany doors at the entrance open onto a long column lined hall with teakwood prayer boxes (large enough to kneel in) lining one wall (one prayer box is the access to the thieves guild). Located on the Street of Runes [8,10]
Guildmaster Bock in charge of the Purple Masks guild, massive (fat) man. Has been proposing marriage with Jewel (Ferretís grandmother) for the last 20 years, she keeps saying maybe
Ravendasí torture chamber deep beneath the High Tower [9]
Since the resistance began Ravendas had been routinely capturing members of the Purple Masks guild and interrogating (torturing and killing) them for information [9]
Street of Runes is on the eastern side of The Tor [10]
Morhions tower is located on the Street of Runes near the temple of Selune. He moved there after the Fellowship disbanded. Looks dilapidated, abandoned, and overgrown with vines. Illusions make it look abandoned. There is a magical portal beneath the tower, created by a powerful conjurer many years ago, Morhion can create and link other portals to this one [10,17]
Captain Breldurn and Sergeant Drim of the Zhentarim [18]
Kyana, a slender dark haired woman with large catlike eyes and Talim, a young boy with red hair, young thieves of the Purple Masks guild [19]
Erisa, young woman of Iriaebor, captured by Ravendas and put to work in the catacombs [20]
Lord Bron was found trapped in the dungeons and reinstated after the Zhentarim were removed [epilogue]


Snake Lore
Lord Steward of Iriaebor [4]
Former thief, imprisoned in High Tower, escaped into city sewers and fell into the chasm near the Crypt of the Shadowking. Was dying and allowed the Shadowking to heal him in return for eternal service [prologue]
Dark, close cropped hair, sharp features, small beady black eyes [2]
Can conjure up the image of a killer using the blood of his victim [4]
Has nightmares about the shadowking sat on the throne of dark steel
Has an opaque, polished crystal as large as an egg, darkens with a command word and allows him to speak to the shadevari. It is an ancient magic device that allows communication with its twin (the shadevar holds the other crystal) [8,17]
Can force a victim to spill his secrets using the blood of his victim [9]
Controls the shadevar [13]
Sunlight causes, pain, weariness, and dulls his mind, ever since his possession by the Shadowking [13]
Can fire bolts of burning emerald light from his hand [13]
Hears the voice of the Shadowking in his head constantly [13]
The Shadowking urged Snake to seek out Ravendas, make himself useful to her, help her gain control of power in Iriaebor [13]

Ravendas Lore
Calls herself Lord Cutter in Iriaebor [2]
Tall, shoulder length hair the colour of spun gold, dusky blue eyes, smooth pale skin [2]
Lord Ravendas of the Zhentarim [2]
Old foe of Caledan Caldorien [2]
7 years ago Ravendas raised an army to conquer Hluthvar. Caledan and the Fellowship of the Dreaming Dragon defeated her and she fled back to Darkhold [4,10]
Has a son with Caledan (Caledan doesnít know about), pale skin, dark glossy black hair, green eyes. Called Kellen, owns a set of reed pipe, has the gift of shadow magic, when he plays music the shadows move. 8 years old [6]
Sister of Kera, 5 years older than Kera [6,14]
Daughter of a famous mercenary (Flaming Fists????), ambitious. (Was she Zhentarim when she helped Caledan stop the Zhent assassin in Baldurís Gate????) [14]
Has been searching for someone with shadowmagic for years according to the harpers [18]
Seven years ago Maderon was Ravendasí lover [18]
Ravendas learned of the Nightstone over a decade ago, she tried to ensnare Caledan but he spurned her advances [18]
Ravendas impersonated Kera nearly 9 years ago at the Running Stag inn in Berdusk and seduced Caledan (without him ever knowing the truth, Ravendas told Kera though) [18]


High Tower Lore
Wall with battlements surrounds the High Tower [2]
Great iron banded gates in the surrounding wall [2]
Ancient (and forgotten) storm drain leads through the High Tower encircling wall [18]
Hall of Argument located in the High Tower, where the city lords meet. Takes up the entire ground floor of the High Tower. High ceiling covered with frescoes, countless arches, graceful vaults, a thousand torches and a polished stone floor [18]
Secret tunnel in the dungeons known only to the Purple Masks thieves guild [18]

Mari AlíMaren Lore
Dark auburn hair, wiry, strong [2]
Owns a curved, gleaming sabre [3]
Prime Master in the harpers is Belhuar Thantarth [3]
Sent by the harpers to spy on Lord Ravendas and the Zhentarim, find their weaknesses and a way to drive them from the city, and search for Caledan Caldorien [3]
As a child, lived with her parents in Elturel. They died of fever (plague????) and Mari lived on the streets for several months until winter when Master Andros the harper found her
Master Andros lived in a cottage (near Elturel????) with Mari, was too old to travel for the harpers anymore. He died 3 years ago and Mari joined the harpers soon after


Caledan Caldorien Lore
7 years wandering the realms, 7 years since he left Iriaebor [1]
Angular face (almost wolfish), green eyes, broad shoulders, large bony frame, dark hair [1]
Used to be a harper
Once a bard, but hasnt played a note since leaving the harpers [1]
Wears a braided copper bracelet (marriage symbol), and a patchwork, midnight blue fur lined cloak [2]
Buried a woman with summer golden hair seven years ago [2]
Used to play a set of reed pipes [2]
Used to live in the Sign of the Dreaming Dragon inn when he was a harper [3]
Estah is Caledanís oldest and truest adventuring companion [3]
Formed the Fellowship of the Dreaming Dragon, six adventurers (including Caledan) that he had gathered during his time as a harper and they decided to join Caledan. They all lived in the Sign of the Dreaming Dragon that Estah still owned. The Fellowship disbanded 7 years ago [3]
7 years ago Caledan slit the throat of a nobleman named Maderon (Caledan had his own reasons for wanting Maderon dead, Maderon was Ravendasí lover). Maderon owed Cormik a lot of money and was going to have Cormik killed instead of paying. Cormik knew about the assassination plot (although Caledan didnít know that) and had a plan to relieve Maderon of his entire fortune before killing him first (how????)[4]
Harper tales say he foiled a plot by the Cult of Bane to seize the throne of the Empire of Amn, how he freed an army enslaved by a bloodthirsty Calishite sorceress, how he rescued hundreds of children kidnapped from Waterdeep and forced to work in a goblin princeís mines [5]
Shadowmagic / music is an inherited ability, runs in the family [6]
Caledan and Kera were due to get married, to travel to Berdusk and swear vows in Twilight Hall. The day before the journey the Fellowship got word of Ravendas raising an army of goblinkin outside Hluthvar. The Fellowship drove two rival tribes to attack one another and the goblinkin army destroyed itself. Caledan captured Ravendas but Ravendas convinced Kera to release her and Ravendas then strangled Kera. Caledan broke with the harper and the Fellowship that day [6]
Once with the Fellowship raided a caravan of an Amnian merchant who was running slaves to Thay [7]
After Ravendas murdered Kera, she fled to Darkhold and Caledan followed her and actually managed to sneak into Darkhold. Morhion followed him (despite being ordered not to), he infofrmed Ravendas that Caledan was coming to kill her (now Caledan would not be able to and have to abandon his plans). Morhion escaped into the dungeons where Caledan was hiding. Morhion made a bargain with a black spirit named Serafi and escaped with Caledan. Caledan never forgave Morhion [10,19]
12/13 years ago Caledan was sent on a mission to stop an assassin in Baldurís Gate sent to wipe out the Council. It was on that mission he met Ravendas. She was a commander (in the Flaming Fists????) that helped him secretly infiltrate the council chambers and stop the assassin. The assassin was Zhentarim (they were ready to step in and take control / stabilise Baldurís Gate in the ensuing chaos). Kera was a shy girl at the time [14]
Later Caledan returned to Baldurís Gate and Ravendas was leader of the Flaming Fists (how, local leader beneath the top leaders perhaps????). This time Caledan noticed Kera (who was now a woman). Kera wanted Caledan to take her to Berdusk and the harpers [14]
Caledan and Kera met Ravendas again 8/9 years ago and she was consumed with a lust for power and tried to convince them to join her. They learned Ravendas was now a member of the Zhentarim. [14]

Fellowship of the Dreaming Dragon
Estah met Caledan more than a dozen years ago on his first mission for the Harpers to Iriaebor to the Sign of the Dreaming Dragon inn. Estah had only just bought the inn. Over the next year he was in Iriaebor a lot and then asked her for help as a healer. [6]
They met Morhion Genídahar of Iriaebor first, a mage of considerable power. Always strange and secretive. Tall (taller than Caledan, very handsome, with fine noble features, shaggy eyebrows, golden hair past his shoulders, deep blue eyes. Has limited foresight ability by gazing at runes. Morhion spent the last 7 years working as a court magician (at the court of the High Lord Bron) to earn a living. To escape Darkhold Morhion made a pact with a ghost of a man (Serafi) in archaic armour with sharp features and a cruel mouth they met beneath the fortress of Darkhold, every month when the moon is full Morhion must bleed himself and the ghost drinks the blood [6,19]
Then ferret, more rogue than hero. Small wiry man, dark beady eyes, thin nose. Ferret and his family are independent of the Purple Masks guild. Grandmother, Jewel, head of Ferretís clan of thieves, scary. [6,8]
Then Tyveris, a great warrior but gentle soul. Same height as Caledan but much larger, thickly muscled arms and chest, dark coppery skin, obsidian black eyes. Tabaxi chultan. Left Chult with his sister Tali to join sailors promising to train them in swords as mercenaries. More than half the chultans died in the journey, Tali among them. Tyveris was enslaved to a Calishite sorcerer as a mercenary, Caledan and the Fellowship freed Tyveris and his fellow warriors and Tyveris joined the Fellowship [6,7]
Tyveris went to Everard Abbey after the Fellowship disbanded, sleeping in their stable. Abbes Melisende taught him to read and he joined the order 4 years ago [7]
Kera last, a woman of true beauty within and without, sun golden hair. Kera and Caledan were in love, they song marvelous duets. Murdered by her sister Ravendas [6]
Ferret was trapped in the Crypt of the Shadowking (dead????) [21]
Tyveris became advisor to Lord Bron [epilogue]

Cutterís Laws
No ale after sundown [1]
Anyone breaking a law is taken away by the guards and never seen again [1]
Bow in the presence of Lord Cutter [2]

Other Lore
Age old sign of loyalty to cut off a fingertip and present it to a master. Only the Zhentarim still practice this tradition [2]
Mage in red robes (Red Wizard) summoned hell hounds to attack Caledan and Mari, then fired a fire arrow at Mari [3]
Anja, plump woman with bright black eyes and ruddy cheeks. Plays a wooden flute (she made as a child). Can do Shadowmagic / music, makes the shadows move when she plays the flute. Lives on plains on the edge of Anauroch (Tunlands or Pelleors Prairie, somewhere north of Iriaebor????). Survived 3 husbands and half a dozen droughts. Slain by a shadevari [2]
Garl, farmer, knows Anja. Slain by a shadevari [2]
A small village 15-20 miles north of Iriaebor. Dario knows a fair haired young woman named Adalae [4]
Ebrelias, old priest of Oghma at Everard Abbey north of Iriaebor [7]
Sindari, a native herb of Thay, no initial symptoms causes violent convulsions after 24 hours and death within minutes. Used as a poison, bitter after taste
Caravan cities, Iriaebor, Berdusk, Elturel were founded 300 years ago [9]
River Chionthar has been settled for millennia, the Talfir raised kingdoms that fell to dust centuries before folk from Cormyr crossed the Sunset Mountains to resettle these lands [9]
Loremaster Avros, priest of Oghma at Everard Abbey [9]
Loremaster Erill, a disciple of Oghma, lives in the Sunset Mountains, friends with Loremaster Avros, he has spent a lifetime studying and preserving rare books and may have copied the Malíebídala [9]
Fortress monastery in the foothills of the Sunset Mountains northeast of Iriaebor. Headed by Abbot Derevel. The monastery library is not large but it does contain some rare books. Loremaster Erill made a copy of the Book of the Shadows several years ago before he died. The Book of the Shadows was taken by Morhion Genídahar a month ago who traded several rare tomes for it [10]
Abbot Derevek, tall, grey haired man with a kind smile and bright eyes [10]
Talfirian Eddas, a book containing many eddas (tales????) about the talfir [11]
Talek Talembar fell to a goblin arrow in the Year of the Lion (Cormyr Reckoning) in the Duchy of Indoria [11]
The Duchy of Indoria is mentioned in a history of Calimshan, the history of one of the ancient noble houses of Calimshan [11]
5 or 6 centuries ago the land west of Iriaebor, between the Winding Water and the River Chionthar was a favoured battleground of kingdoms looking to control western Faerun. Many of these armies came from Calimshan, before the founding of Amn [11]
Calishite lord led an army across the Chionthar and camped in Indoria [11]
A village called Asher is situated where Indoria used to be, in the Fields of the Dead [11]
Berdusk is 4 days hide ride from Iriaebor [12]
Fields of the Dead are 14 days hard ride from Iriaebor (only with good weather [12]
Centuries ago the Fields of the Dead were torn up by vast armies, thousands perished here. The low hills are said to be huge burial mounds where entire armies were entombed. With the rise of Waterdeep, Amn, and the Caravan Cities, the Fields of the Dead lost their strategic importance. Scars of ancient battle turned by ploughs [14]
Asher, a small cluster of dry wall houses and thatched roofs in a vale between two tree covered hills. One inn in Asher, a single story building set against the hillside [14]
Local tales say that Talek Talembar could turn back entire armies with a song [14]
Talek Talembarís tomb located half a mile from Asher [14]
The Lonely Oak, a massive gnarled oak tree along in a massive field in the Fields of the Dead [14]
Birds and other animals avoid the burial fields and mounds in the Fields of the Dead [14]
Talek Talembar killed the chief of a goblin tribe in the Fields of the Dead so they filled him full of arrows (according to a long dead goblin). They stashed him in a cave in a ravine (to age before they ate him later) but they were in turn killed by their own tribe. [15]
Talek Talembarís ghost haunts his burial site, he has forgotten the shadowsong. He faded after talking to Caledan [16]
Telsiak, a thick purplish liquid, a rare poison native to Amn, one drop (delivered via needle) was enough to stop the heart instantly [17]
The Running Stag inn in Berdusk [18]
Darkhold is older than the Zhentarim. Once it marked the southernmost border of a kingdom long forgotten [19]
Serafi, a knight of the kingdom that Darkhold was part of. He sought to usurp the throne but was discovered and sentenced to death. Doomed for all eternity to remain as a spirit / ghost. Serafi knows a secret entrance / exit from the caverns beneath Darkhold [19]


Harper Lore
Belhuar Thantarth, Master of Twilight Hall. Prime Master of Mari. Was a journeyman harper 7 years ago, now a master harper [3]
Harpers of Twilight Hall believe in giving new agents a trial by fire. [3]
Harpers of Shadowdale are more impromptu and secretive than Twilight Hall, take more care of their new agents [3]
Old Master Andros, used to be Mari AlíMarenís mentor, told her tales of Caledan Caldorien [5]
The harpers knew about shadowmagic (that Caldorien possessed it) and the nightstone (how????), but did not know about Talek Talembar or the Shadowking [16]


Talfir Language
Mal = shadows [9]
Dala = book [9]
Malíebídala = the Book of Shadows [9]
Altaro'eb'Telkadra = Year of the Lion [15]


Shadevari Lore
Super strong, super fast (can run as fast as a horse and deflect thrown daggers) [5,12]
Canít enter cities, the smell is overpowering, causes madness. Track by scent [5]
Searching for those that can use shadowmagic. Caledan, Kellen, and Anja (dead) so he can slay them [7]
Can regenerate normal damage / blows [10]
Did not cross the River Chionthar on the way to the Sunset Mountains (why, could not cross????) [10]
Face is misshapen, covered with thick grey scales, two dark tusks curved up from its maw and a serrated dark horn sprouts from its brow. No eyes, only depressions where they should be. Two slit shaped nostrils, razor sharp retractable talons [12]
Tracks by scent [12]
Cannot cross water [12]
Shadevar are ancient, 13 in number, Bhaal discovered them and they served him for thousands of years but even he could not control them forever. Eventually Azuth himself banished them from the worlds of humans and gods (according to Morhion) [12]
The Shadevar know the location of Talek Talembarís body (is this because Ravendas found it or because they already knew????), they were waiting for the Fellowship at the ravine cave. [16]
Bright light (sun, lightning????) cause excruciating pain to the Shadevar (they can see it, despite the lack of eyes) [16]
Can be killed if itís heart is destroyed (the magic links to their heart) [16]

Book of the Shadows
Malíebídala, The Book of Shadows. Ravendas asked Tembris to steal it for her (then cut his eyes out). The original Book of Shadows was destroyed in a fatal battle between two mages. All other copies has since been destroyed or lost. One copy was locked in the library of Elversult where it has lain for the last centuries, but the book was stolen from Elversult a year ago (by Tembris) [9]
An encyclopedia, may have had multiple authors over the centuries. Details many forgotten mysteries, describes terrible creatures, abominations of magic, swords of power, enchanted rings, etc [10]
Details Verraketh, a king that ruled a land east of the mountains and west of the sea. Verraketh, a ruler both feared and mighty.[10]
Skilled above all men was Verraketh in the art of sorcery, but such was the power of his dark magic that slowly it did consume him, flesh and soul. Verraketh was changed until he appeared as a man no longer, but rather as a being most hideous, his maleficent heart filled only with darkness. Thus it was that Verraketh came to be called by a new nameóthe Shadowking.' [10]
The Shadowking ruled for a long time and many other lands fell under his dominion [10]
"'... so began the forging of the Nightstone. It was a gem wrought by the hand of the Shadowking from his own essence, but it was not beautiful to look upon. Rather it was as dark and cold as death. With it the Shadowking meant to gain sway over the spirits of men and bring countless realms under his dire rule. '"Yet when the Shadowking first took up the Nightstone in his hand to wield it, he discovered that he had been tricked. The mute troll who had worked the bellows of the Shadowking's forge cast off his disguise, revealing himself as the great bard named Talek Talembar. In his rapture, the Shadowking had detected not the enchantment which Talembar had bound subtly within the Nightstone. The gem refused to obey its creator, but rather heeded only the power of the magical song which Talembar played upon his pipes. For seven days and seven nights the Shadowking wrestled with Talek Talembar, and the earth shook with the fury of their battle. But in the end victory belonged to Talembar. At the end of all things the great bard raised his pipes to his lips and played the shadow song, weaving its enchantment about the Shadowking and his dark creation, the Nightstone. The Shadowking bowed on bended knee to the bard who had defeated him. Then did Talembar bind his vanquished foe within a great crypt, and over the crypt he raised a cairn higher than a hill. And the power of the Nightstone was hidden away forevermore. [10]
Talek Talembar raised a great mound over the crypt of the Shadowking, a mound as high as a hill. The mount is The Tor [10]

Crypt of the Shadowking
Sealed by a 10 ft slab of solid onyx [20]
Vast circular chamber, floor made of solid onyx, perimeter lined with 13 massive buttresses carved with gargoyles and nightmarish friezes. Each buttress has an alcove filled with gems, wine casks, gold cups, or ivory figurines [20]
A ring of 7 huge columns, each resting on a basalt plinth surrounds the centre of the crypt [20]
A domed ceiling a dozen fathoms high with a single jagged crack running across it [20]
In the centre was a basalt dais bearing a flawless onyx sarcophagus carved to resemble the Shadowking, manlike shape but massive and twisted with gnarled arms that ended in claws and legs ending in hooves. His face was perfect and human but crowned with a pair of dark antlers [20]
Small wooden box of crude construction at the base of the dais, surrounded by a maelstrom of whirling shadows (with faces amidst the tatters of darkness) [20]
The Nightstone lies in the wooden box, a rough uneven stone that radiates pulsing dark energy [20]
Ravendas touched the Nightstone and two onyx antlers burst from her forehead, she was transformed into the Shadowking, the Nightstone laying at the heart of the shadowy creature (was the Shadowking trapped inside the Nightstone????) [21]
After Caledan played the 7 notes of the shadowsong the Shadowking exploded and the crypt began to collapse, the sarcophagus disappeared into the ground [21]
Ferret was trapped in the crypt of the Shadowking while the others escaped [21]


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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 08 Mar 2021 :  19:37:49  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That was a huge amount of lore.

A few thoughts

When did Ravendas turn to the Zhentarim and how did she find out about the Nightstone.

She heard about the Nightstone over a decade ago and at that time she was in Baldurs Gate 12 years ago when she helped Caledan infiltrate the council of Baldurs Gate and stop a Zhent assassin. Had she already heard about the Nightstone then and noted Caledan's use of Shadowmagic and so aided him to try and get him on side. Was she already a Zhent then and she sacrificed her own agent to get with Caledan.

She was the daughter of a famous mercenary and working as a commander in Baldurs Gate, i'm presuming this was with the Flaming Fists. She later rose a few years later to become in charge of the Flaming Fists, does this mean she is daughter to one of the known leaders of that group (Scar, etc).



The Shadevar appeared to know the location of Talek Talembar's tomb and was waiting for him. Apart from having a super scent power how could this be. Did the shadevar somehow remain around after the SHadowking's demise, if so that might be when Bhaal and Azuth got involved.



The Shadowking was created by the Shadowstar but no mention of it is made in this novel. He then creates the Nightstone or has someone or someones create it for him, only to then become trapped in it.

Curiously a huge and ornate tomb is erected around the Nightstone but unless Talek Talembar was in charge of the Empire of Ebenfar i do not see how he would have the time and resources to create this himself.

Did the Shadowking have this tomb erected in preparation for his own death or for the death of another or was it a place of worship for some dark god (although the ornate sarcophagus carved in the Shadowking's likeness suggests it was for the Shadowking).

Onto Curse of the Shadowmage next

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 08 Mar 2021 :  20:20:02  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing that bugs me is the crack in the crypt, seems to me that is how the shadowking is able to ensnare Snake, but how long has this crack been there, has the shadowking been able to subtly influence people from afar.

Have there been any earthquakes or volcanic eruptions in the past in this region.

The most obvious thing would be the time of troubles weakening the magic and the shadowking could crack it, but I'd prefer something a bit more long term.


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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 08 Mar 2021 :  21:00:56  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep, lots of lore and lots of it in conflict with lore published elsewhere (FRA, VGttSC and Power of Faerun just to name a few). There are even internal inconsistencies that has made it difficult to come up with something that makes sense for Iriaebor. Maybe that is one of the reasons why nothing was ever published specifically about the city.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 08 Mar 2021 :  21:07:09  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

One thing that bugs me is the crack in the crypt, seems to me that is how the shadowking is able to ensnare Snake, but how long has this crack been there, has the shadowking been able to subtly influence people from afar.

Have there been any earthquakes or volcanic eruptions in the past in this region.

The most obvious thing would be the time of troubles weakening the magic and the shadowking could crack it, but I'd prefer something a bit more long term.





There are earthquakes mentioned in the 4e/5e timeframe but I haven't seen any during the 1300s. However, there was an artifact that was kept in Sshamath for a while that was throwing off wild and dead magic zones that could have made it to Iriaebor. It could have been an interaction between a wild magic zone and the magic of the Crypt that created the crack when it did.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 08 Mar 2021 :  21:58:53  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh goody, I love inconsistencies, they make the best realmslore.

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

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Posted - 08 Mar 2021 :  22:52:37  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Oh goody, I love inconsistencies, they make the best realmslore.



A couple examples:

Ships in the river at Iriaebor. I have never heard of a barge referred to as a ship and unless those ships can fly or walk, they ain't going to be at Iriaebor (and them being there wasn't a "OMG, there are ships at Iriaebor!" moment). Iriaebor is the furthest barges can make it. That is per Ed (and his lore trumps the author's in my opinion).

I would have to assume that the map in FRA was either drawn by Ed or approved by him. A 100 foot wide garden at the far west end of the Tor would have been something easily seen on that map. FRA came out in 1990. Crypt came out in 1993. It would seem that the map was not referenced in the writing of the book. The book had Caldorian gone for 7 years. So, if the book takes place in 1363 (and that is the date in GHotR), that means that the garden was there in 1356 (since Cal isn't surprised by its existence when he returns) and should have been on the map and it isn't.

Edit: This may have come off harsher than I intended. There are some other interesting items. Here is an example:

Bock and the Purple Masks Thieves Guild: The Purple Masks operate in Elversult but were on the verge of being taken over by The Harpers in 1358 (listed in FRA). Since Crypt takes place in 1363 AND their base is under the Moontower, that leads to the conclusion that the Purple Masks in Iriaebor are Harper backed (Selune is one of the Harper gods). For what I am doing, I am taking it that Bock saw the writing on the wall when the Harpers took over his guild so he decided to go along and the Harpers let him stay. The Harpers later decided to have the Purple Masks challenge the Night Skulls (the Zhent-backed thieves guild in Iriaebor) and Bock, as an already known head of a thieves guild, would not have the Zhents immediately connect him with the Harpers.


"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents

Edited by - TheIriaeban on 08 Mar 2021 23:17:37
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5537 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2021 :  09:31:54  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cant say i noticed the description of the garden in the novel.

The mention of a warship did seem odd, but looking around i think river boats came in a variety of sizes, from skiffs, to barges, to sailing ships.

Now travelling upriver all of these vessels would need to use oars, be poled, or dragged against the current but there is no reason why you couldnt have a ship carry 20 - 30 soldiers along the river (although the point of such a vessel would be limited and was probably just a show of strength on the part of the Zhents).

When i've finished the novels i'll have a look at the other lore, but your idea about the thieves guild works well enough. It does seem odd that the Purple Masks relocated from Elturel to IRiaebor and that the Night Skulls mysteriously disappeared.

I'm gonna guess that Ravendas and the Zhents used the Night Skulls to gain power and then eliminated or disbanded the Night Skulls because they were no longer needed in a town where the Zhents had total control (and Ravendas, while ambitious does seem a bit short sighted). Then something moved the Purple Masks from Elturel to Iriaebor (perhaps they were discovered or forced out by another guild - like the Shadow Thieves).
The only oddity is that Bock had been trying to marry Ferret's grandmother for over a decade but that could have just been part of his original plans to expand from Elturel into Iriaebor anyway.


JUst started Curse of the Shadowmage, new monster - Shadowbeasts. I'm beginning to think that mentions of Ebenfar as an Empire with armies, etc is a mistake, with creatures like the Shadevar and shadowbeasts at his disposal that he can make out of shadow why would he ever need an army of humans. In fact what would he ever need humans for except to use for his magic and feed to his creatures.

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
667 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2021 :  14:57:00  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Cant say i noticed the description of the garden in the novel.

The mention of a warship did seem odd, but looking around i think river boats came in a variety of sizes, from skiffs, to barges, to sailing ships.

Now travelling upriver all of these vessels would need to use oars, be poled, or dragged against the current but there is no reason why you couldnt have a ship carry 20 - 30 soldiers along the river (although the point of such a vessel would be limited and was probably just a show of strength on the part of the Zhents).

When i've finished the novels i'll have a look at the other lore, but your idea about the thieves guild works well enough. It does seem odd that the Purple Masks relocated from Elturel to IRiaebor and that the Night Skulls mysteriously disappeared.

I'm gonna guess that Ravendas and the Zhents used the Night Skulls to gain power and then eliminated or disbanded the Night Skulls because they were no longer needed in a town where the Zhents had total control (and Ravendas, while ambitious does seem a bit short sighted). Then something moved the Purple Masks from Elturel to Iriaebor (perhaps they were discovered or forced out by another guild - like the Shadow Thieves).
The only oddity is that Bock had been trying to marry Ferret's grandmother for over a decade but that could have just been part of his original plans to expand from Elturel into Iriaebor anyway.


JUst started Curse of the Shadowmage, new monster - Shadowbeasts. I'm beginning to think that mentions of Ebenfar as an Empire with armies, etc is a mistake, with creatures like the Shadevar and shadowbeasts at his disposal that he can make out of shadow why would he ever need an army of humans. In fact what would he ever need humans for except to use for his magic and feed to his creatures.



It didn't really describe the garden but when they did the archery and apple thing, it says that the apple was "over 100 feet away". Therefore, the garden is about 100 feet wide.

Ed specifies that only barges can make it up that far. Now, you could have a "battle barge" but again, that isn't a ship. Whatever vessel makes it there, it would have to be shallow draft and not very tall (the river barges do have masts that can be lowered). You have the bridges of Berdusk to get under and there are some rapids just upriver there to contend with.

For my stuff, the main influence that allowed the Zhents to take over was Nathlar. He is in the FRA and is a level 19 illusionist. He had been formenting distrust in the government in the city for years before "Cutter" showed up. The Night Skulls were helping him to some extent and were really the true representatives of the Zhents during this (Ravendas was really only looking out for herself once she took over). The Zhents would really like to get their hands on her for a little interrogation and torture session.


"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5537 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2021 :  14:03:57  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The amount of lore is vastly reduced in the second novel.

A few interesting passages though.

Firstly is the the shadowking needed to feed on living creatures to survive and that he devastated the surrounding lands to feed that need.

It also gives a timeline of sorts for verraketh. He's a bard, he finds the lump of metal, quenched it in a pool and makes a medallion. Then he becomes a famous musician, a noble lord, and finally a ruler and powerful magic user.

His only son Talek also becomes a powerful magic user.

Over the centuries Verraketh is transformed into the shadowking.

So the possibilities between the words are that Verraketh inherited or stole an existing kingdom, I think it more likely he became elder of a nomadic tribe.

He has only one son but could have had many daughters and grand children.

His nation becomes a wasteland as the shadowking feeds on every living creature in it or transforms them into his servants. He then starts conquering other lands and devouring them as well.


As for relatives. Talek was his only son but he could have had many daughters and many grandchildren, most of whom would need to be slain for there to be only a few descendants in modern day.

Its also curious that the shadowstar seemed to be powerful enough to make verraketh a super mage and transform him into the shadowking but was ultimately not enough and so the night stone was needed.

Even stranger, Serafi, the netherese spirit of darkhold seemed to know how to cure the shadowking transformation so it implies he was around during these events or he had a copy of the book of the shadows (where the incarnation to stop the transformation is held).




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