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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9498 Posts

Posted - 15 Aug 2020 :  17:36:08  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mrestos Khorvaen

Hello everybody, I just downloade Maztica campaign setting (GREAT work), and I have some questions:
- Are faerunians aware that Maztica and Anchorome exists again?
- Are they interested in reopening trade relations or rebuild their colonies?
- What did Maztican gods during the Time of Troubles?
- I'm planning an adventure in which the PCs are send to Maztica to build a penal colony (like first Australia) in an island without magic.



You just got many of your answer, but you asked one that wasn't answered. What did the Maztican gods do during the Time of Troubles? Nothing. They were unaffected by the Time of Troubles. However, it should be noted that shortly thereafter 2 of their gods were sent to Toril (Zaltec and Qotal) in something like avatar form. This has led some of us to theorize that Ao wasn't in control of these gods. Whether its because they are actually primordials, dragons, giants, or just have some other overpower is unknown. This may or may not be true. Of note as well, at the end of the novel series (not to give away secrets, but it has been almost 30 years) the high priest of Qotal essentially rejects his own god.

As to what happened with the Maztican gods during the Spellplague, Seethyr's storyline has it that the gods were quiet and unheard by the Mazticans. Personally, I've been going with the idea that the gods who disappeared were actually over in Abeir and active in a "weaker than even the avatars we saw during the ToT form", and having to share the bodies of mortals willing to serve as their hosts. Eventually some gods did develop enough power to form a normal avatar, and they were over there protecting the humans from the depredations of Abeir.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
33879 Posts

Posted - 15 Aug 2020 :  17:59:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't see how Ao could have tossed down all the other gods but not the Maztican ones... Does it explicitly say, somewhere, that they were unaffected?

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9498 Posts

Posted - 15 Aug 2020 :  20:22:27  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I don't see how Ao could have tossed down all the other gods but not the Maztican ones... Does it explicitly say, somewhere, that they were unaffected?



To note, the 2e FRCS W calls into question whether Ao is over them. Also, there is no specific mention of the gods coming to the world during said time. Nor is there a mention of all the great spirits of Anchorome descending during the ToT either. Then, in the novels, they DO have two of the gods descend, and it becomes that its the first time in forever that these gods have come to the realm of mortals essentially. Its a huge plot line in the novels. However, it happens AFTER the time of troubles by a few years.

While certain areas I can buy that the gods are coordinated and orderly, such as the Celestial Bureaucracy going to some mountains and sitting things out, I cannot see that happening with this pantheon. I submit that certain areas of the realms just weren't affected. Is it definitive? No. Its subjective, just like my view that perhaps the gods that disappeared and came back were in Abeir.

BTW, this does kind of call into question one particular function of the Imaskari Godswall. By that, I mean, did it only limit gods coming into areas controlled by Ao. Could the gods have, for instance, gone to another world without issue? If the Mulan people had escaped to say Maztica could they have called on their gods? I had not really thought about this possibility until literally now, but I think THAT is a great way to limit the power of the Imaskari Godswall, but it also contains Ao's power..... which I'm also fine with. I personally want to view Ao as someone who is lying and he's not as powerful as people believe. He's smart mind you. He's powerful mind you. But he can't truly just change things on a whim.




Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Mrestos Khorvaen
Seeker

Spain
18 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2020 :  10:52:42  Show Profile Send Mrestos Khorvaen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks everybody for the answers.
Maybe the Maztica gods are so unrelated to their Faerun partners that Aeo found unnecessary to punish them. Or maybe they weren't as indiferent to their followers as the Faerun Pantheon was. So there was no need to punish them.
Tabaxi are original from Maztica? Then how they come to Sword Coast?
Another question: how much it takes to travel by sea from Amn to Maztica?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33879 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2020 :  11:13:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I dunno, I think the lack of coverage Maztica was getting was a greater factor in the failure to mention its deities, rather than anything else. We know non-human pantheons were affected, we know the Celestial Bureaucracy was affected -- basically, with the exceptions of areas that either weren't described at the time or that weren't getting coverage, every deity we know of was cast down.

Without something that says otherwise, I'm assuming the deities of Maztica got the same treatment as the deities everywhere else.

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paladinnicolas
Learned Scribe

92 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2020 :  12:57:50  Show Profile Send paladinnicolas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mrestos Khorvaen


Tabaxi are original from Maztica? Then how they come to Sword Coast?
Another question: how much it takes to travel by sea from Amn to Maztica?


This is what Voloís says on the subject, apart from a Cat Lord deity: ď In the Forgotten Realms, tabaxi hail from Maztica, a realm located far across the ocean west of the Sword Coast. The tabaxi of Maztica are known for their isolation, and until recently they never ventured from their homeland. The tabaxi say little of why that has changed, though rumors persist of strange happenings in that distant land.Ē
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9498 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2020 :  13:48:27  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mrestos Khorvaen

Thanks everybody for the answers.
Maybe the Maztica gods are so unrelated to their Faerun partners that Aeo found unnecessary to punish them. Or maybe they weren't as indiferent to their followers as the Faerun Pantheon was. So there was no need to punish them.
Tabaxi are original from Maztica? Then how they come to Sword Coast?
Another question: how much it takes to travel by sea from Amn to Maztica?



It doesn't seem to be the case, based on what we're shown of their religion. If anything, the extreme indifference that the Faerunian gods were accused of seemed magnified amongst the Maztican gods, who were only worried about getting sacrifices by the hundreds on their altars. Granted, Zaltec is a war god, but that doesn't mean anyone captured in war needs to be sacrificed on his altar OR that practices to capture folk should take precedence so that they can be sacrificed. It actually makes it kind of more strange that these gods weren't punished for their hubris.

Tabaxi are a cat folk that was a monster race in the 1e fiend folio before they were added to Maztica. In 5e, they do make a note that the Tabaxi are found in Maztica. That doesn't mean that's the only place they are from, and I personally suspect that there are some in Katashaka and were some already in Chult. This COULD date back to when all 3 of these areas at one point were connected. In Volo's Guide to Monsters, they try to give a made up reason for the name of the creature's and a tribe of humans beings both being Tabaxi. They indicate they believe it's because of a misunderstanding of a Cormyrian explorer who saw a Tabaxi tribesman wearing a cat cloak, and he assumed this meant all "cat folk" were tabaxi. Since this name is a universal name, across worlds, I submit a more likely answer. The "Tabaxi" tribe is no different than barbarian tribes who call themselves the "wolf", "bear", "sky pony", "lion", "thunderbeast", or other such tribal names after a creature, or of sports teams that call themselves "vikings", "red skins", etc.... They took the name of a creature that they respected and feared.

On travel times from Amn to Maztica, that will vary based on the wind, but its a good question and one I've been meaning to figure out for some time, but I always get sidetracked. It will also depend on the ruleset used I believe.



Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9498 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2020 :  13:54:06  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I dunno, I think the lack of coverage Maztica was getting was a greater factor in the failure to mention its deities, rather than anything else. We know non-human pantheons were affected, we know the Celestial Bureaucracy was affected -- basically, with the exceptions of areas that either weren't described at the time or that weren't getting coverage, every deity we know of was cast down.

Without something that says otherwise, I'm assuming the deities of Maztica got the same treatment as the deities everywhere else.



One interesting factor to all of this is that all those others are physically on the same continent AND said continent seemingly disappears wholly to Abeir based on the lore we've been given.

Also, interestingly enough, I don't believe we don't actually have anything telling us that this continent was ON Toril during the Time of Troubles, since it "miraculously was discovered", despite the fact that spelljamming technology had existed prior to this. It can be an interesting loophole if someone wants to use it. For all we know, the reason Maztican magic is so less powerful than Faerunian COULD be because the whole continent disappeared for a while to another "world (possibly even a third world that was twinned). What we can say is that it wasn't on Abeir, because there was no remarking of the sky suddenly changing FROM steelsky to Toril's normal blue with white clouds. In this, I'm just throwing out weird possibilities mind you.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 17 Aug 2020 13:55:19
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33879 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2020 :  15:34:47  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I dunno, I think the lack of coverage Maztica was getting was a greater factor in the failure to mention its deities, rather than anything else. We know non-human pantheons were affected, we know the Celestial Bureaucracy was affected -- basically, with the exceptions of areas that either weren't described at the time or that weren't getting coverage, every deity we know of was cast down.

Without something that says otherwise, I'm assuming the deities of Maztica got the same treatment as the deities everywhere else.



One interesting factor to all of this is that all those others are physically on the same continent AND said continent seemingly disappears wholly to Abeir based on the lore we've been given.

Also, interestingly enough, I don't believe we don't actually have anything telling us that this continent was ON Toril during the Time of Troubles, since it "miraculously was discovered", despite the fact that spelljamming technology had existed prior to this. It can be an interesting loophole if someone wants to use it. For all we know, the reason Maztican magic is so less powerful than Faerunian COULD be because the whole continent disappeared for a while to another "world (possibly even a third world that was twinned). What we can say is that it wasn't on Abeir, because there was no remarking of the sky suddenly changing FROM steelsky to Toril's normal blue with white clouds. In this, I'm just throwing out weird possibilities mind you.



I assume "miraculously was discovered" only applies to groundlings -- because even with Spelljammer, we don't know anything about the other continents, either. To me, this is a failing of Spelljammer -- I love the setting, but there was so much emphasis on going into and traveling in space that they didn't consider the implications for how space travel would affect the game settings. The attitude seemed to be "disregard established settings, because you can go anywhere!"

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9498 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2020 :  17:02:55  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I dunno, I think the lack of coverage Maztica was getting was a greater factor in the failure to mention its deities, rather than anything else. We know non-human pantheons were affected, we know the Celestial Bureaucracy was affected -- basically, with the exceptions of areas that either weren't described at the time or that weren't getting coverage, every deity we know of was cast down.

Without something that says otherwise, I'm assuming the deities of Maztica got the same treatment as the deities everywhere else.



One interesting factor to all of this is that all those others are physically on the same continent AND said continent seemingly disappears wholly to Abeir based on the lore we've been given.

Also, interestingly enough, I don't believe we don't actually have anything telling us that this continent was ON Toril during the Time of Troubles, since it "miraculously was discovered", despite the fact that spelljamming technology had existed prior to this. It can be an interesting loophole if someone wants to use it. For all we know, the reason Maztican magic is so less powerful than Faerunian COULD be because the whole continent disappeared for a while to another "world (possibly even a third world that was twinned). What we can say is that it wasn't on Abeir, because there was no remarking of the sky suddenly changing FROM steelsky to Toril's normal blue with white clouds. In this, I'm just throwing out weird possibilities mind you.



I assume "miraculously was discovered" only applies to groundlings -- because even with Spelljammer, we don't know anything about the other continents, either. To me, this is a failing of Spelljammer -- I love the setting, but there was so much emphasis on going into and traveling in space that they didn't consider the implications for how space travel would affect the game settings. The attitude seemed to be "disregard established settings, because you can go anywhere!"



Agreed. I truly wonder about concepts like finding a "far flung" outpost for Shou Lung, Wa, Nimbral, the moon society, Evermeet, and obviously Thay (since all these societies either had spelljammers or were very familiar with them) on some of the lost continents. I can definitely picture the Netherese with their flying enclaves parking them over another continent. Also, some of the other cultures who are noted as coming TO Toril (such as the Loxo in the Shaar, and how I was talking about the Nubari of Malatra a couple weeks back) possibly being in more than one place. For instance, with the Loxo, I imagine that they have a society that they built in Katashaka with Giff mercenaries, and the ones that crashed in the Shaar were just an anomaly that the core group didn't know about. It would only make sense once they have the technology to go to these areas and explore before sending people offworld.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Mrestos Khorvaen
Seeker

Spain
18 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2020 :  07:27:04  Show Profile Send Mrestos Khorvaen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One question: how did obsidian weapons worked against steel armors? I'm reading Maztica new manual (great work) and doesn't tell it. I supose a steel armor gives resistance against stone weapons.
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Seethyr
Senior Scribe

USA
856 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2020 :  17:09:13  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mrestos Khorvaen

One question: how did obsidian weapons worked against steel armors? I'm reading Maztica new manual (great work) and doesn't tell it. I supose a steel armor gives resistance against stone weapons.



Originally, not well. They introduced something called plumastone on the novels thought which was a foil against this obvious issue. It was essentially obsidian with the strength of steel. A hand waive for certain, but one that worked.

Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign
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Mrestos Khorvaen
Seeker

Spain
18 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2020 :  15:06:21  Show Profile Send Mrestos Khorvaen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, I already read that at Maztica campaign guide. But any info about how old obsidian weapons performed against steel?
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9498 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2020 :  19:57:15  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Simgara Aremagspawn, Half Dragon Turtle/Tortle mage-druidess of Nathair Sgiathach, winged serpent god of faerie dragons (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4582168) by sleyvas is licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution license.

Simgara is rumored to have left her homeland to travel across the ocean to a recently returned land rumored to worship a feathered serpent deity

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Seethyr
Senior Scribe

USA
856 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2020 :  23:06:00  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mrestos Khorvaen

Thanks, I already read that at Maztica campaign guide. But any info about how old obsidian weapons performed against steel?



Iím not sure this has been addressed in 5e, but perhaps it shatters on a natural 1, ruining the weapon. Perhaps that threshold increases against higher AC that isnít based on Dex. For example, against AC 14 or higher without Dex, it shatters on a roll of 1 or 2?

Thatís just an idea, havenít really thought about it much yet.




quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Simgara Aremagspawn, Half Dragon Turtle/Tortle mage-druidess of Nathair Sgiathach, winged serpent god of faerie dragons (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4582168) by sleyvas is licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution license.

Simgara is rumored to have left her homeland to travel across the ocean to a recently returned land rumored to worship a feathered serpent deity



Half dragon turtle tortle! Thatís awesome.

Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign

Edited by - Seethyr on 07 Sep 2020 23:10:03
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9498 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2020 :  23:28:34  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr


quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Simgara Aremagspawn, Half Dragon Turtle/Tortle mage-druidess of Nathair Sgiathach, winged serpent god of faerie dragons (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4582168) by sleyvas is licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution license.

Simgara is rumored to have left her homeland to travel across the ocean to a recently returned land rumored to worship a feathered serpent deity



Half dragon turtle tortle! Thatís awesome.



Yeah, when someone mentioned Aremag a month or so back, I got the idea in my head when I was making a joke about Aremag. But the idea stuck. I then started thinking about dragon gods for a half-dragon turtle/tortle to worship. Then, when I saw that the god of Faerie Dragons called himself "the Winged Serpent" god, I thought "man, what if there were a priestess who thought that her faerie dragon god was Ubtao/Qotal.... and decided to head over to Maztica to chase myths". She might even head up north to Anchorome to chase the stories of Paiyatemu, the Sun Youth, who is linked to butterflies (because what kind of wings do faerie dragons have)... and run across the tribal lands of the Haud'Aunee Minnenewah (the spirit folk who worship the "Great Spirit" that is a Zaratan).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Seethyr
Senior Scribe

USA
856 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2020 :  01:02:15  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr


quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Simgara Aremagspawn, Half Dragon Turtle/Tortle mage-druidess of Nathair Sgiathach, winged serpent god of faerie dragons (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4582168) by sleyvas is licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution license.

Simgara is rumored to have left her homeland to travel across the ocean to a recently returned land rumored to worship a feathered serpent deity



Half dragon turtle tortle! Thatís awesome.



Yeah, when someone mentioned Aremag a month or so back, I got the idea in my head when I was making a joke about Aremag. But the idea stuck. I then started thinking about dragon gods for a half-dragon turtle/tortle to worship. Then, when I saw that the god of Faerie Dragons called himself "the Winged Serpent" god, I thought "man, what if there were a priestess who thought that her faerie dragon god was Ubtao/Qotal.... and decided to head over to Maztica to chase myths". She might even head up north to Anchorome to chase the stories of Paiyatemu, the Sun Youth, who is linked to butterflies (because what kind of wings do faerie dragons have)... and run across the tribal lands of the Haud'Aunee Minnenewah (the spirit folk who worship the "Great Spirit" that is a Zaratan).



I love it. This reminds me that I need to do more Maztica/Anchorome connections like you do. I have tried to keep them separate, mostly to not confuse those who enjoy one subsetting, but not the other, but I think that role has played itself out. I once wrote James Lowder about Aramag when I was a kid. that was the first time I actually got a letter from an author, I was so happy!

By the way, I know you weren't a huge fan of my first iteration of the Ruins of Olbi, but I have continued the project a bit. I made some small alterations which you might like and added a bit more lore and room descritpions. essentially, I wanted an old school dungeon crawl for Maztica. Here are the first 40 or so rooms...

MZA5 Ruins of Olbi

Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
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Edited by - Seethyr on 08 Sep 2020 01:03:40
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1412 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2020 :  00:30:13  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey all,

Since I haven't and won't, play 4e or 5e, I am a bit confused here about Maztica. There has been an enormous amount of competing ideas regarding what has or hasn't changed and why. Does anyone here feel confident with corroborating documentation to demonstrate that the Maztican deities/pantheon were or were not affected by the Spellplague and/or Second Sundering?

Thanks! :)

Best regards,


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Seethyr
Senior Scribe

USA
856 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2020 :  02:36:26  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Hey all,

Since I haven't and won't, play 4e or 5e, I am a bit confused here about Maztica. There has been an enormous amount of competing ideas regarding what has or hasn't changed and why. Does anyone here feel confident with corroborating documentation to demonstrate that the Maztican deities/pantheon were or were not affected by the Spellplague and/or Second Sundering?

Thanks! :)

Best regards,





As far as I have seen, anything written regarding this issue has been only fan based speculation - fortunately and unfortunately.

But just logically speaking, of the entire continent had been transported to Abeir in the Spellplague, I canít imagine that the effects were not devastating to the gods. Even if they werenít directly affected - what happens to a deity when nearly 100% of your worshippers are brought somewhere else? Iíll stop here because you donít want fan speculation.

Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign

Edited by - Seethyr on 16 Sep 2020 02:37:22
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1412 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2020 :  04:14:08  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe Seethyr,

Salient points you make for sure! It can be weird though, based on things we've seen in the past, so I try to assume little. Hell, I just watched an interview where it was posited that Vhaeraun is like John Wayne or Bruce Willis. I had no idea, but, there you go!

Best regards,



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9498 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2020 :  10:18:37  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote




First off, let me state that I'm about to say a few things, but its more to make clear how people with differering views can still function in the same world. The fight over whats canon and not canon, sometimes it gets heated (and I've been in those arguments as well).


Yes, this is the one area in which mine and Seethyr's campaigns would be fairly different, but still not incompatible. He assumes that the "gods" didn't go over, but that the great spirits of anchorome were unaffected. This matches the pre-spellplague "knowledge" of the sages of realmslore (i.e. the stuff mentioned in the 4e campaign guide). I personally view those statements as uncertain narrator in perspective, and I even question whether the mortals could tell the difference between a primordial and a god (for instance, is Karshimis from Abeir a primordial or a god? is Talos from Toril a primordial or a god? we have answers to both, yet both could be the opposite). Secondly, we only know what the world was supposedly like PRIOR to the spellplague, not after it (except in one instance where a novel sends people from one world to the other). Seethyr tries to stick closer to what canon is perceived to be. I go an alternate route and state that the suddenly missing gods were missing because they were dragged in one form or another to Abeir (and even some dead gods). I also question whether mortals would recognize the difference between a god and a primordial even if one were in front of them. For instance, is Talos a god or a primordial? We have an answer in realmslore, but are we sure its right? Was Girru the Untheric fire god a god or a primordial? Was Karshimis from Abeir a god or a primordial?

So, since we have opposing views, shouldn't Seethyr our campaigns be incompatible? The answer becomes no still. Perhaps the Maztican gods didn't go to Abeir, but others did. Perhaps the great spirits of Anchorome are very much like gods as well, but more like the Untheric manifestations that were prime bound (a bit like Nobanion). Perhaps the Maztican gods DID go to Abeir, but not all of their worshippers got the message, or perhaps they only appeared to a portion of the population that would have served them. The forgotten realms should always be perceived in my view point as uncertain narrator, and that's something I've been saying for years. At the same time, even this is something hard to adhere to, because we all have something that's treasured to us. Yet, if one truly looks, nearly every definitive statement that's been issued over the years can be refuted. For instance, the elemental lords were not cast down during the ToT? Yes they were, because Kossuth was in Chult. Abeir had nothing resembling the weave? Untrue, Ed states that Abeir's weave simply worked differently, and we also have his article on worldfire which seems to indicate that both worlds had magic from dragon. In the end, we're all here to make a story, and sharing ideas is the best way to achieve that end.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9498 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2020 :  10:33:30  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr


quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Simgara Aremagspawn, Half Dragon Turtle/Tortle mage-druidess of Nathair Sgiathach, winged serpent god of faerie dragons (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4582168) by sleyvas is licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution license.

Simgara is rumored to have left her homeland to travel across the ocean to a recently returned land rumored to worship a feathered serpent deity



Half dragon turtle tortle! Thatís awesome.



Yeah, when someone mentioned Aremag a month or so back, I got the idea in my head when I was making a joke about Aremag. But the idea stuck. I then started thinking about dragon gods for a half-dragon turtle/tortle to worship. Then, when I saw that the god of Faerie Dragons called himself "the Winged Serpent" god, I thought "man, what if there were a priestess who thought that her faerie dragon god was Ubtao/Qotal.... and decided to head over to Maztica to chase myths". She might even head up north to Anchorome to chase the stories of Paiyatemu, the Sun Youth, who is linked to butterflies (because what kind of wings do faerie dragons have)... and run across the tribal lands of the Haud'Aunee Minnenewah (the spirit folk who worship the "Great Spirit" that is a Zaratan).



I love it. This reminds me that I need to do more Maztica/Anchorome connections like you do. I have tried to keep them separate, mostly to not confuse those who enjoy one subsetting, but not the other, but I think that role has played itself out. I once wrote James Lowder about Aramag when I was a kid. that was the first time I actually got a letter from an author, I was so happy!

By the way, I know you weren't a huge fan of my first iteration of the Ruins of Olbi, but I have continued the project a bit. I made some small alterations which you might like and added a bit more lore and room descritpions. essentially, I wanted an old school dungeon crawl for Maztica. Here are the first 40 or so rooms...

MZA5 Ruins of Olbi



Oh, I didn't see this response. Sorry Seethyr. Honestly, I don't recall anything about your ruins of Olbi idea, but I'll dig on this and give you some feedback later today.

On the idea of keeping the campaigns regions separate, one big difference between them is what I've done with the United Tharchs, because that creates a continent spanning society that shares limited information. But, the people of the city of Tukan won't necessarily know what's happening way up in the Poscadari basin, except what they might hear from a trader. That being said, that's a VERY long way for a trader to travel (somewhat equivalent to someone in our world travelling from south America to Oregon). Then again, its NOT so far when one considers alternate options like flying on a giant parrot. Also, some Faerunian technology (like ship building) may have crept into some areas of Maztican society.
What I need to actually be careful of is the assuming that everyone everywhere knows everything, and thus certain societies need to be more isolated. My mind tends to draw connections left and right. One big way I need to shape that is to definitively put certain temples/religions into specific tharchs (for instance, I want to have the Zakharan goddess Kiga the Predator specifically in Katashaka, Lopango, AND the Shaar... but not up north in Anchorome or on my lunar enclave Luneira). So, in that way, we do tend to work well.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
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USA
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Posted - 16 Sep 2020 :  12:18:35  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
By the way, I know you don't have the gods in Maztica during the spellplague years, but I plan to have them there (maybe not Qotal mind you, as maybe THAT particular god was sucked over to whereever Mezro the maze city went from Chult ... since I think he's Ubtao as well.... and he's literally been trapped there himself). It has occurred to me though that perhaps the best way to do this is if certain gods appeared to certain people. So, having Zaltec appearing to the orcs, ogres, jagres, and trolls who were his followers makes sense to me.

As I said though, I see certain gods in certain places, and one of them that I'd like to "bring back" is Kiga the Predator, as a goddess who never left Katashaka but whose influence died off in Zakhara. I'd like to see her religion carried FROM the cat folk of Katashaka and become embraced by Faerunians, who totally have forgotten about Malar over 5 generations. Specifically I'd like to see her in the 2 tharchs of Katashaka, the tharch of Lopango, and the Shaaran tharch of Peleverai. So, what if orcs from Nexal were captured and/or traded as slaves to the tharch of Lopango. What if these same orcs then escaped and met up with the jungle orcs? There may be bloodthirsty tribes of jungle orcs that serve Zaltec as clerics, druids, rangers, or even warlocks. Why do I bring this scenario up? Because this can fuel a religious war between the patriarchal jungle orcs serving a male god of the hunt, and a faction of humans following the huntress goddess Kiga the Predator. Since you also introduced the jungle drow into Lopango, perhaps some of THEM are also in this human society (having been freed and taken to wife, but eventually living beyond the lives of their husbands), and perhaps THEY have embraced Kiga the Predator (which, sidebar, tickles me to think of a drow priestess with a figurines of wondrous power of a panther that's bloodthirsty) and perhaps they SPECIFICALLY want to hunt the jungle orcs who had previously enslaved them. Now we have two unique factions in both cultures that hate one another, yet essentially they're worshipping the same ideals, admittedly with a gender bias.

I plan to do something very similar in the Shaar with Peleverai, in a slightly different way, and I'd like to have both these instances going. In Peleverai, it would be some Dambrath born Crintri and their human and half-elven and half-drow followers who get trapped and transferred to Abeir along with a huge portion of the Shaar (i.e. the whole area that was the Underchasm). We have some canon information that there is a drow city,Vaerndoun, somewhere near but beneath the surface city of Torsch in Prayers from the Faithful for the Talosian artifact "The Chanting Chain".

From Prayers from the Faithful, just for reference
The much-copied, bawdy narrative Life of Rebrum (evidently penned circa 1210 DR by a traveling merchant, Rebrum of Sheirtalar) mentions a drow trading band trying to barter away the chain to dark elves from a distant city at a trade-fair in the great subterranean cavern-complex of Vaerndoun. (The complex is a network of interconnected caves, many containing lakes, that stretch in a northeast/southwest line for over a hundred miles, with the midpoint deep beneath the surface city of Torsch.)

Anyway, the idea on the Peleverai said is that the Crintri cannot get prayers answered by Loviatar. A Crintri princess actually turns to this Kiga the Predator as her new goddess. She finds that Peleverai's cliffside tunnels from the landrise reach into the underdark. They find a group of drow, whose society is in shambles without Lolth, and they capture and enslave them. This is a bit of a turning point for the Crintri, who had previously sought the drow out hoping to gain their favor, and yet now they find them weak. Over the next century, some of these drow eventually earn their freedom and a respected place in society. Others are simply brood mares or studs for the Crintri or humans of the tharch. Still, respect for Kiga the Predator grows, and a small faction of hunters who serve to protect their society, provide meat, etc... gains respect and a relatively large temple is built. With the return to Toril, the Crintri princess wants to return to Dambrath, but finds a hunter god (Malar) pushing a patriarchal policy has pushed the crintri out of power and established the country as a savage place. She vows to cast out the followers of Malar from her homeland, and a portion of the population of the tharch (maybe nearing ten thousand) would like to join her in doing so, and she hopes to do so by bringing a new message to the women of her homeland and thus stealing away support. She just needs to find the proper zealots to help her deliver her new message, because she doesn't have near the manpower for open warfare otherwise.

In this, it may or may not be a good idea, but I feel like I'm having followers of the same god, pursuing similar goals, with a similar leadership, in two different parts of the world. One, a drow, human, and half-drow culture in a jungle full of narcissistic humans facing off against a roughly equal-sized group of orcs following Zaltec the jaguar hunter god. The other a group of crintri, drow, human, half-elf, half-drow, wemic, centaur, tabaxi, etc... from a clifside city overlooking a savannah, facing off against a larger group of humans and lyncanthropes following Malar the panther god.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 16 Sep 2020 12:30:04
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
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Posted - 16 Sep 2020 :  16:43:40  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
still reading through the ruins of olbi (I remember it now, this is where they found the statue of Zaltec). I think you added some new stone wall carvings, and I love them, and they are cryptic enough that I'm not sure WHAT they might allude to. Very fun. In scrolling through it, I saw the obsidian flameskull image, and I wanted to see if I could make something simple that might fit... and oddly it got me to making some strange flameskulls (unicorn, nightmare, kobold, minotaur, giant jackalope, al-mir'aj, etc...). Take a look and see if you like the black stone one. I made it with black flames and with purple-black flames.

Flameskulls of Unusual Origin (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4598551) by sleyvas is licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution license.

I didn't even attempt adding flames around the skulls themselves, as with 3d art, this tends to look hokey unless you're someone better than me, so I just put flaming eyes in place.

EDIT:
Getting a little further in. I like Papan's Horn of Plenty. Very fitting.

What's beyond area 30 is interesting. I also like Quauhtli.

In area 38, while the myth shows beings being transformed, given the nature of this mythology, it could be interesting if it were more of a "father/mother/birth" scenario.

For that matter, it could also be interesting if in other areas, there were depictions of races being birthed by Nula, possibly with Zaltec. For instance, the tabaxi come to mind. It doesn't have to be true mind you.


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 16 Sep 2020 18:00:33
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deserk
Learned Scribe

Norway
126 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2020 :  18:09:19  Show Profile Send deserk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just wanted to say that those are some cool ideas, Sleyvas. The cult of Kiga would make an interesting faction in the Shaar and Dambrath, and especially in creating a religious clash with Malarites.

Edited by - deserk on 16 Sep 2020 18:09:42
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