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Lamora
Seeker

USA
68 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2017 :  23:00:36  Show Profile Send Lamora a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Ayrik: You want to give a link for those good and especially the exceptional fan novels? Most of the Realms fanfiction (lets be honest, its basically a Realms story considering the setting lets you just plop adventurers anywhere) I have seen has been mediocre. But something exceptional would be a nice read. Honestly right now there is one of the best Realms stories I have read being updated daily and I include the actual books, so I would be very happy if you can point me to some new ones.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30019 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2017 :  00:41:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber

The only way that has even a chance of changing is if fans mobilize, start writing letters, circulating petitions, launching social media campaigns, being vocal at conventions, and so forth.

Or we could say "Nah, it won't make any difference" and do nothing at all. That's an option too.

WotC once had a thriving forum filled with such letters and petitions and campaigns, most fizzled but some had traction and sporadically gained great momentum. A few of these had explicit (if not active) support from recognized FR authors.


There was once, when I was still active on the WotC forums, that I suggested WotC could do a survey to find out what we wanted.

A WotC staffer replied that they weren't interested in that; they had their own ways of deciding what we wanted.

This was long before 4E was even being (secretly) playtested -- but I've never forgotten that "no, we'll tell you want you want" attitude.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6221 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2017 :  08:42:32  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Lamora
Sorry, I don't have these links anymore. And, as I said above, I wouldn't post them anyways because I'm not interested in doing WotC's dirty work for them. But these novels can always be found after some persistent googling for "unpublished|unofficial forgotten realms story|novel" and the like.

@Wooly
I saw much the same thing on the forum. A new topic or poll which quickly generated a huge rush of "yes, please, we want that!" responses. Then a comment from WotC saying "no, we've decided not to do that, there's no market". Ignored and rolled over by subsequent waves of blissfully unaware "we want that!" without result.

Eat lots of garlic - it keeps the elves and vampires away.
Don't stick your sword into dragons, you just don't know where they've been.
Avoid stepping on halflings. They stick to your boots, will smell awful, and are impossible to scrape off.
Ah, of course. Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.
[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 29 Jun 2017 08:43:36
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1902 Posts

Posted - 29 Jun 2017 :  16:09:19  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That seems counterintuitive to me lol. A bunch of people saying they want it, then WotC claiming there is no market? Clearly, there is.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6221 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2017 :  06:22:40  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Limiting your product line, halting sales of novels, creating your own biggest competitor, and nuking your flagship setting (over and over again) all seem counterintuitive too, lol. Frequently informing your most avid customers that you'll decide what they want and that they'd better like it or else ... well, that goes beyond counterintuitive into raw stupidity, nobody creates/retains loyal friends by being arrogant and intolerant and selfish, lol ... but see where WotC has been and where they are now and you might better understand the path they travelled.

Eat lots of garlic - it keeps the elves and vampires away.
Don't stick your sword into dragons, you just don't know where they've been.
Avoid stepping on halflings. They stick to your boots, will smell awful, and are impossible to scrape off.
Ah, of course. Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.
[/Ayrik]
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Madpig
Learned Scribe

Finland
122 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2017 :  06:24:49  Show Profile Send Madpig a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

@Lamora
Sorry, I don't have these links anymore. And, as I said above, I wouldn't post them anyways because I'm not interested in doing WotC's dirty work for them. But these novels can always be found after some persistent googling for "unpublished|unofficial forgotten realms story|novel" and the like.

@Wooly
I saw much the same thing on the forum. A new topic or poll which quickly generated a huge rush of "yes, please, we want that!" responses. Then a comment from WotC saying "no, we've decided not to do that, there's no market". Ignored and rolled over by subsequent waves of blissfully unaware "we want that!" without result.



As today is 10th aniversary of Iphone, I have one quote from Jobbs: Do not ask what people want, bring something so spectacular that people dont even know they want it. BUT, that often as not missfires really badly, as in case of Wotc/Hasbro.
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
796 Posts

Posted - 05 Jul 2017 :  02:03:45  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Limiting your product line, halting sales of novels, creating your own biggest competitor, and nuking your flagship setting (over and over again) all seem counterintuitive too, lol. Frequently informing your most avid customers that you'll decide what they want and that they'd better like it or else ... well, that goes beyond counterintuitive into raw stupidity, nobody creates/retains loyal friends by being arrogant and intolerant and selfish, lol ... but see where WotC has been and where they are now and you might better understand the path they travelled.


It had a very niche fanbase to begin with, but a powerful one. They wanted to go mainstream with it and failed and in doing so had nuked the old school fanbase, leaving them with only us, the hangers on.

The biggest problem tabletop game worlds face in today's world is it has largely been replaced by online MMORPG's and WOTC never really put their heart and soul into making a good one of that when they had the chance. It was disheartening 10 years back to see the numbers from chapters canada when World of Warcraft books started outselling forgotten realms. But they properly attracted the new school fanbase, and got a big enough fanbase that the more hardcore live and breathe RPGers started buying those books instead
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4834 Posts

Posted - 05 Jul 2017 :  07:38:29  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I sometimes think that D&D would now be dominating all facets of "gaming" as well as offshooting into books, movies etc, if only it had devoted a huge amount of resources to building a brilliant MMORPG.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30019 Posts

Posted - 05 Jul 2017 :  10:07:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I sometimes think that D&D would now be dominating all facets of "gaming" as well as offshooting into books, movies etc, if only it had devoted a huge amount of resources to building a brilliant MMORPG.

-- George Krashos



I think they could have done very, very well if they'd've developed and pushed the virtual gaming table, myself. The biggest advantages MMOs have is that you can play any time, for as long or as little time as you want, using a tool you've already got that does a lot of other stuff. If WotC had developed a good virtual gaming table, they could have given D&D those same advantages, and that would have been huge.

I know there are VTTs out there, but none are as big as they would be if WotC had slapped their name on it and aggressively pushed it as an alternative to trying to find and coordinate with local people.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

505 Posts

Posted - 05 Jul 2017 :  18:53:31  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The sad thing is that the 4e virtual table (the 2D version WotC developed after the 3D project was cancelled) was really good. The DDI integration was smooth and I played quite a few LFR adventures on it during the beta.

Unfortunately they never broadcasted the fact that all DDI users actually had beta access and instead of moving the stable version they finally had from beta to release, they out of the blue the cancelled it.

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

a brilliant MMORPG.
Well, the 'brilliant' is the tricky part. Huge brands tried, hundred of millions have been sunk into various projects, and the most 'successful' scrape by as free to play, while the majority are long since cancelled.

And WoW is still the big elephant in the room, easily affording losing more player than most would-be WoW-killers had during their peaks.

Edited by - Mirtek on 05 Jul 2017 18:59:18
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30019 Posts

Posted - 05 Jul 2017 :  20:02:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek

The sad thing is that the 4e virtual table (the 2D version WotC developed after the 3D project was cancelled) was really good. The DDI integration was smooth and I played quite a few LFR adventures on it during the beta.

Unfortunately they never broadcasted the fact that all DDI users actually had beta access and instead of moving the stable version they finally had from beta to release, they out of the blue the cancelled it.




As I understand it, that project was mostly being carried by just one person, who died before completing it... I seem to recall there being an issue with the code having been lifted from somewhere else.

I think that if the VTT had been rules-neutral, with rulesets as cheap downloads, it could have been a huge thing for gaming in general, and not just for D&D.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

505 Posts

Posted - 05 Jul 2017 :  20:53:40  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

[As I understand it, that project was mostly being carried by just one person, who died before completing it... I seem to recall there being an issue with the code having been lifted from somewhere else.
That was the first one, the 3D version they promised during launch of 4e- They had a working 2D version at the end of 4e, looked like maptools or fantasy grounds.
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Spectralballoons
Seeker

Pakistan
17 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2017 :  08:28:58  Show Profile Send Spectralballoons a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I sometimes think that D&D would now be dominating all facets of "gaming" as well as offshooting into books, movies etc, if only it had devoted a huge amount of resources to building a brilliant MMORPG.

-- George Krashos



That's a lousy idea. Tabletop games are still going strong, and are in fact now more mainstream than ever before, and what works in a tabletop game might not necessarilly work in another form of entertainment. Besides, doesn't Neverwinter Nights exist?
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1361 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2017 :  03:10:20  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd love to see a Realms MMORPG provided it could be farmed out to CD Projekt Red, Blizzard, or BioWare. Given what they did with Mass Effect Andromeda, not sure I'd go in for the last mention though. Sad really, I still love the original ME series. Sigh.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2672 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2017 :  03:18:41  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

I'd love to see a Realms MMORPG provided it could be farmed out to CD Projekt Red, Blizzard, or BioWare. Given what they did with Mass Effect Andromeda, not sure I'd go in for the last mention though. Sad really, I still love the original ME series. Sigh.



The thing is, from what I've heard WotC wants to ave strict control over what goes in the game, and such companies probably aren't going to enjoy restrictions in storytelling and game design. Furthermore, they all have their own IPs--which are arguably alreardy much more well known and popular than D&D/FR--so I really don't see them dealing with WotC. Too bad, sure, but understandable.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1361 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2017 :  03:48:56  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A pipe dream for sure. Still, I'd love to play a Realms game that has the polish of say Witcher 3. /drool
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

654 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  00:15:31  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

I'd love to see a Realms MMORPG provided it could be farmed out to CD Projekt Red, Blizzard, or BioWare. Given what they did with Mass Effect Andromeda, not sure I'd go in for the last mention though. Sad really, I still love the original ME series. Sigh.



I think someone pointed out already that there is a Realms MMORPG. It's called Neverwinter and it's been around for a quite a few years.
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Varl
Learned Scribe

USA
250 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2017 :  22:53:43  Show Profile Send Varl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I sometimes think that D&D would now be dominating all facets of "gaming" as well as offshooting into books, movies etc, if only it had devoted a huge amount of resources to building a brilliant MMORPG.

-- George Krashos



They may have with Hasbro's blessing. There's no way WotC could make an MMO without very deep pockets. And despite Blizzard's success with WoW, they're the exception to the MMO rule. A game created to unseat WoW would have to take its player interactivity to many new heights, which isn't saying much considering the thought processes that must have went into some of its systems.

As a longtime player of WoW myself, I can tell you that if you play long enough, you'll find many of its features are outright stupid and make you wonder how those features could ever have made it past testing or QA other than by sticking to the mantra of "it's our game and we'll do what we want." Sound familiar? I can't tell you how many times I've been playing only to think "why did they code it this way? That's stupid!" Bugs aren't the only things playtesters and paying players notice with their entertainment.

"We're not out of here in 10 minutes, we won't need no rockets to fly through space." -Parker, Alien.
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