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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
394 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2020 :  11:09:10  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Does imbibing onierium (sp) attract hostile attention from dream larvae?
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9745 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2020 :  15:06:57  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Dream magic, as a D&D concept, has been around for a while -- I recall reading, in Dragon magazine, at least one specialist mage class/kit focused on dream magic back when 2E was going strong.

Just so long as it's not too much a ripoff of the Dreaming, I don't see a problem with it in the Realms.

(And it's my understanding that the Dreaming/Dreamtime isn't best described in such terms, anyway, and that it's more of a poor translation, at best)



Yeah, we get "hints" of "dream magic" all over the place (I think the article you're talking about might have been something like the Oineromage or something... I barely remember it, but I do remember an article). But, we don't have any good resources that I know of. Part of me would like to link dream magic and psionics (as in psionics is a power someone uses almost like they're in a "waking dream"... they take their mind to a different state to effect reality....). At the same time, many telepathic disciplines also represent themselves as making one "hyper alert", so maybe its only certain styles of psionics. Illusion also fits well with dream magic, and to another degree enchantment. But I don't think anything we've seen really gets down to a nitty gritty of what it is and how exactly its different, and how it might be a fully fledged school like evocation, etc...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2020 :  19:29:01  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe Delnyn,

That is a really great question. I went and checked the Epic Level Handbook to reread about the Dream Larva again, and it just says that it comes from the dreams. I would imagine that would mean it is coming from the Plane of Dreams. However, I think oneirium (correct spelling) just like dreamstones would just make it to where you would be able to be detected by dream larva, just as much as anything. I don't think it would specifically attract attention though, at least from my readings.

Best regards,







Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3451 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2020 :  01:25:56  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

Does imbibing onierium (sp) attract hostile attention from dream larvae?


-If they're monsters from the Plane of Dreams, I'd say that nothing inherently about consuming it would attract them any more or less than anyone else having their consciousness extend to said plane. I envisioned it, and dreamstone, as basically automatically allowing someone to lucid dream.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7311 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2020 :  03:41:38  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Can't say I like the notion of "oneirium", a tangible material "dreamstuff".

Because it invites material substances to condense all sorts of other intangibles ... "elysium", "monadium", "infinitium", "pandemonium", "solarium", "chronium", "psychometrium", etc ... things which are better left intangible. Things a character should not be able to stuff into a container and carry around.

[/Ayrik]
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2020 :  07:56:01  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Ayrik,

quote:
Can't say I like the notion of "oneirium", a tangible material "dreamstuff".


I completely get what you mean by that. I see it as sort of an illusory situation, possibly. If done like psilocybin, and you just let it happen, you could enter the dream real more functional, and be able to deal with things better, with whatever you encounter.

Of course, all of that stuff is very subjective. It's extremely cool to think about and discuss though.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Azar
Learned Scribe

103 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2020 :  12:37:18  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Can't say I like the notion of "oneirium", a tangible material "dreamstuff".

Because it invites material substances to condense all sorts of other intangibles ... "elysium", "monadium", "infinitium", "pandemonium", "solarium", "chronium", "psychometrium", etc ... things which are better left intangible. Things a character should not be able to stuff into a container and carry around.



There is precedent for such material in another D&D setting: Planescape.

quote:
TRUE COLD

A "true cold" area of the paraplane is a region in which more than just water or flesh can freeze. A substance, energy, word, thought or even a concept like "goodness" or "nearness" can freeze solid, taking on the form of a strange ice crystal. While frozen, the item, thought or whatever it is has no power or meaning.

Some outsiders enjoy scouring the true cold areas of Ice for frozen ideas, which they take back with them. Once removed from the frigid temperatures of the paraplane, the prizes thaw, usually within a specially prepared container. Then, they might be used somehow to power a magical item or an esoteric scheme, or simply sold for profit. I've heard that Sigil's Great Bazaar offers anything a buyer might want, but I'll wager that even some of the most jaded planars are surprised to find distilled "chaos", bottled "sadness" or liquid "left" for sale.


I wouldn't feature a bazaar where tangible intangibles can be purchased, but...using these "impossibilities" as part of an adventure? That could work.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2020 :  20:59:48  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Azar,

quote:
There is precedent for such material in another D&D setting: Planescape.
TRUE COLD

A "true cold" area of the paraplane is a region in which more than just water or flesh can freeze.


quote:
I wouldn't feature a bazaar where tangible intangibles can be purchased, but...using these "impossibilities" as part of an adventure? That could work.


I hear you there. That is pretty much how I would go about it as well. It can add some spice, but the rarity of it, and difficulty procuring it can be the adventure itself.

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7311 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2020 :  21:20:51  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
There is precedent for such material in another D&D setting: Planescape.

Fair enough. When we are selective about which lore is (and is not) valid then it really all boils down to opinion.

I happen to be a diehard Planescape fan (see my avatar, lol). I do like the notion of distilled elements from the Elemental planes - fundamental building blocks of the universe, leakages and interactions through elemental vortices, all of that. Alchemy with raw elements can produce all sorts of interesting items. I'm less enthused about the notion of distilled elements from demiplanes - things which can only manifest in somewhat tangible forms due to the peculiar intrinsic properties of these cosmic half-places, things sustained by abstracts which don't always exist anywhere else in the D&D cosmos.

Later planeslore does contain all sorts of wonderful ideas. And it's a nearly-infinite setting filled with all sorts of inexplicable weirdness. I'm just of the opinion that substances like oneirium are interesting novelties yet would be uncompelling additions to the wider setting. And I dislike the notion of a "demiplane of dreams" since it introduces other convolutions ... questions like whether or not deities and powers can dream, whether or not "dead" or "dormant" gods might dream, whether or not they are captured by this place when they dream, etc ... I'd hate to have a demiplane inhabited by Karsus without establishing a very good reason consistent to all other planeslore.

[/Ayrik]
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2020 :  21:26:06  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Ayrik,

quote:
Fair enough. When we are selective about which lore is (and is not) valid then it really all boils down to opinion. I happen to be a diehard Planescape fan (see my avatar, lol).


I hear you there. I love Planescape myself. Not particularly knowledgeable in that arena, but great stuff. I almost wish they'd bring it back, but then, I know that WotC would likely screw it up, so better to leave it be.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3451 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  17:17:48  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

I completely get what you mean by that. I see it as sort of an illusory situation, possibly. If done like psilocybin, and you just let it happen, you could enter the dream real more functional, and be able to deal with things better, with whatever you encounter.

-That's pretty much what it is. I want to say it was a specifically an opioid analogue to some degree when originally envisioned, but any psychotropic would work. Lucid Dreaming was supposed to be an important game mechanic and substances to increase the effectiveness of it was what that and Dreamstones and whatever else was for.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2020 :  18:17:43  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Karsus,

Nice. Yeah, I really like the idea of lucid dreaming with substances in addition to magic as it has this really uncontrolled element to it that adds some subjective, unknown, danger to the situation. Kind of cool!

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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