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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe

USA
174 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2019 :  17:14:48  Show Profile  Visit Storyteller Hero's Homepage Send Storyteller Hero a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BrennonGoldeye

quote:
Originally posted by Storyteller Hero

quote:
Originally posted by BrennonGoldeye

quote:
Originally posted by Storyteller Hero

Since Bane is tens of thousands of years old and not a complete imbecile (like Gruumsh's son), the Black Lord probably wouldn't believe that he could never be defeated. He was mightily insecure and desperate during the Avatar Crisis because he knew how fragile a deity's existence can truly be and how the best-laid plans can go awry.

He's not just a tyrant, he's a learned tyrant. He knows what's up and that's how he has survived for so long.







Hmm, I'm going to have to go on some basic timekeeping here.

Netherese God Of Death- AKA Jergal- was still said God at the Fall as the Dead Three are not spoken of in Netherese lore.. That would be approx 1800 years ago.. Bane is a teenager Deity at best.



Actually, a clue was given in the Avatar series that Bane was always a deity, at least at the level of a demigod when the Dead Three approached Jergal. He was experiencing true mortality for the first time according to the novel's writing. It's the sort of thing that can only be known by actually reading the novel atm.

EDIT: Chapter 4 of Shadowdale, in which Bane is getting lost in exploring mortal sensations, and is described as always having miracles be commonplace to him, with no mention of previous mortality anywhere in the novel.

Bane is therefore likely older than one might realize from just Jergal's story.

There is also a Bane in the Dawn War, which took place tens of thousand of years ago. If that Bane and the current FR/Nentir Bane are the same deity, then that makes Bane tens of thousands of years old.

The 5e DMG also references Bane as a Dawn War pantheon deity with the same portfolio and holy symbol as the FR Bane.




Hmm, maybe we are thinking of different things. If you are speaking of the Dawn War Pantheon in 4E, where they flubbed all the lore and made Nerath a world instead of a FR location, ok I can see that, but that was just bad writing that they didn't retcon with everything else. Note that being a Greater Deity He could send Avatars to other worlds, and those worlds could have different time flow. So its possible He could have existed for 30, 000 years,and still have been born a screaming babe in some run down village in -135 DR. Im gonna pass on the Nerath fluff, as it contradicts previous lore on almost every Deity in it enough to be considered as separate as Greyhawk and Krynn.

If you are speaking of the 'Dawn Cataclysm" where Lathander tried to reorganize the Pantheon to fit his ideas, that happened after the Fall of Netheril as the Talfiric, Netherese and Jhaamdathan pantheons melded into the current Pantheon.

If your speaking of the Dawn war between the Gods and Primordials during the Blue Age, Bane was nowhere to be seen.

As far as the Avatar series, Bane having to get used to being Truly mortal for the first time in an Eon would no doubt be strange. The lack of mention that he once felt that way as the Human he is described as in his entry in Faiths & Pantheons doesn't evidence a lack of an origin in humanity.


Sam



I'm talking about the Dawn War. I had a brain fart here, mixing up Nentir Bane and FR Bane in my head. I went back to my notes and realized I made a mistake.

An article in Dragon 372 places the Bane of Nentir Vale (4e core DnD setting) into the history of the Dawn War and has a side box separating the two Banes.

So there really was a Bane in the Dawn War, just not the FR Bane.

Sorry.












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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe

Singapore
391 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2019 :  12:31:00  Show Profile Send Derulbaskul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The first look we ever had at Ed's pantheon was in Dragon 54 and this is the Bane entry:

BANE The “big baddie,” Lord Bane is never seen, although there are tales of a freezing black-taloned hand and eyes of blazing fire, and can be considered as roughly equivalent to Druaga (DDG, p. 23). He does not, however, rule the archdevils (see Note #4).

Turning to Druaga's entry in DDG, we find this:

"... Druaga only fights in person when his soul object (always put in a living being) is threatened. The soul object is the total essence of his being. If Druaga's bodily form is destroyed, the soul object will begin regeneratinga whole new being with all the memories of the old devil. The human that had Druaga's soul implaned in him or her has no knowledge of this, and will die at the same time the devil's body dies, so that that when the human's body is buried, there will be a safe place for the devil to grow...."

It's interesting that the idea for what became Xvim predates the published Realms!

Cheers
D

NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here.
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

542 Posts

Posted - 01 Sep 2019 :  22:53:35  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Storyteller Hero

Since Bane is tens of thousands of years old
If he? I thought he was only around two thousand years old (or less)

Edit: Never mind

Edited by - Mirtek on 01 Sep 2019 22:55:43
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nblanton
Seeker

USA
38 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2019 :  21:45:45  Show Profile Send nblanton a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been looking at this scroll for a bit. Xvim was one of my favorites from the late 2e era. Remembering that period of time--1996 to 1997--it really felt like the Realms gurus in TSR realized they had screwed up a bit with the consolidation of pantheons into Cyric. The novel line focused on the Cyric saga. The game line really focused in on the Xvim one. Ruins of Zhentil Keep and The Moonsea accessory dropped into bookstores.

Anyway, I was a very avid player at that time and felt like Xvim was really part of my Realms. I played those adventures numerous times with my old gaming group from high school.

Anyway, after about a 18 year hiatus I got a group together and started my new group sorta in the same place one of my old groups did, with the goal of them being involved in the events that lead to the ascension of Xvim. So, I've been reading along seeing what y'all think actually happened with Xvim.

Well, I'm not sure what the true story is or if anyone will ever tell us anything beyond the official canon (which is misleading at best and ham-handed if completely accurate). But one thing that came back up in this thread was the origin of Bane. From the little lore we have, there is one being still in the Realms that isn't an insane vestige or otherworldly alien intelligence that was directly involved in the rise of Bane: Tyranthraxus.

In FRC1 Ruins of Adventure its written in a book found in Phlan that:
“...and seated foremost in the Hall of Minor Courtiers were the lesser powers: Maram of the Great Spear; Haask,Voice of Hargut; Tyranthraxus the Flamed One; Borem of the Lake of Boiling Mud; and Camnod the Unseen. These too fell down and became servants of the great lord Bane.”

So, if that is correct, Tyranthraxus should be able to give a good bit of detail about the whole deification. The rest of the lot aren't of much help for reasons I stated before. Tyranthraxus has shown in other adventures that he (it?) will at least interact with others in Faerun (he has an apparent written correspondence with Fzoul in FRC2 Curse of the Azure Bonds, for example!). Tyranthraxus is also noted in the latter adventure to be a meticulous note taker which is one of the reasons he loathes being in a body without the ability to write. Perhaps some of those old notes were the source of the little we do know about the Dead Three's deification (the knucklebones game, Ironfang Keep, Borem and the Jathiman Dagger, etc.).

Also, Xvim was first formally introduced FR6 Dreams of Red Wizards where he was the basis of an odd adventure hook. I don't recall if Xvim was mentioned prior in the OGB and I've lost the only copy of that I had many years ago. Looking back at the quote in FRC1, its odd that we don't see mention of Xvim in this so-called Hall of Minor Courtiers since he apparently would operate as effectively an avatar for he father in Thay to deal with some blasphemous Red Wizards.

Edited by - nblanton on 08 Sep 2019 21:49:23
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32289 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2019 :  03:12:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Xvim is in the OGB. Page 17 of the Cyclopedia of the Realms:

quote:
Iyachtu Xvim (EE-yak-too Zeh-VIM) is called "the Godson" and the son of Bane, and serves as Bane's instrument in the Realms, directly carrying out his "father's" will. A Demi-Power, Iyachtu Xvim has few followers, and appears as a gaunt, unclothed man with scaley brown skin, wielding a large scimitar.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Sep 2019 03:12:56
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nblanton
Seeker

USA
38 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2019 :  03:45:08  Show Profile Send nblanton a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, well, looks like Xvim has been around since the official beginning at least.

Was there any other big details between OGB and FR6? I don't have FR2, FR3, or FR5.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5553 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2019 :  05:37:40  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The only other "big detail" is a mention in the Westgate Timeline, which was a web enhancement for the 2E sourcebook "Cloak & Dagger":

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010327d

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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nblanton
Seeker

USA
38 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2019 :  01:01:05  Show Profile Send nblanton a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I've spent a few days between work and other things to dig in and the other major mention that hasn't been brought up is the avatar (or actual embodiment) of Xvim in approximately 1300 DR in the Spine of the World. His cleric, a cambion no less, has a very close relationship with Xvim at the time and depending on the outcome of the events of that Xvim himself appears to confront the heroes trying to stop the Legion of the Chimera, which apparently worshiped Xvim due to his half-breed status more than the portfolio he would later assume. I'll add that this is one of the few mentions of Xvim having clerics prior to the death of Bane or having an agenda that was outside that of being directed to perform some action or another by Bane. The events described in Dreams of Red Wizards occurs after Icewind Dale II, even though the latter was published a decade later.

So we can get a pretty decent timeline of Xvim if we put all these things together.
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