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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32000 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2019 :  15:59:34  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think Azure Bonds was longer than the average because it was one of the very first FR books. The authors had a lot more freedom at that point.

I thought the thing with Alias's attitude towards Zhara was pretty well explained: Alias had the body of a mature woman, but her life experiences -- and thus her emotional maturity -- only went back a few years, at that point. Despite her false memories, Alias was the equivalent of a young child.

And even without that, I think that any person is going to be bothered by finding out that a good friend is now sleeping with a physical duplicate of the first person. It's just weird.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 14 Apr 2019 16:03:03
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gylippus
Seeker

22 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2019 :  18:29:47  Show Profile Send gylippus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wooly,

I totally agree with what you said. I still found it annoying though. And yes, it was slightly creepy. Ackabar obviously liked Alias so he ran off and found a duplicate. This also plays into something else I was thinking about. Where did the souls come from for the duplicate Aliases? That is never really answered so all of the Aliases will be slightly different. Dragonbait obviously felt bonded with Alias. This means there must be some other person out there that shares a Cat soul or a Zhara soul. Or maybe Phalse just took the souls and killed the donors. I have no idea.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32000 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2019 :  01:20:05  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gylippus

Wooly,

I totally agree with what you said. I still found it annoying though. And yes, it was slightly creepy. Ackabar obviously liked Alias so he ran off and found a duplicate. This also plays into something else I was thinking about. Where did the souls come from for the duplicate Aliases? That is never really answered so all of the Aliases will be slightly different. Dragonbait obviously felt bonded with Alias. This means there must be some other person out there that shares a Cat soul or a Zhara soul. Or maybe Phalse just took the souls and killed the donors. I have no idea.



When Alias was being made, and the baddies were siphoning off some of Dragonbait's soul to put into Alias, Phalse siphoned off some of that and diverted it to the other Alias vessels.

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Mankyle
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Spain
35 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2019 :  07:30:48  Show Profile Send Mankyle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
When Alias was being made, and the baddies were siphoning off some of Dragonbait's soul to put into Alias, Phalse siphoned off some of that and diverted it to the other Alias vessels.


Wasn't there a banter between Akabar and Olive Rustkettle where she said that a soul was an Infinite entity and if you sever it in parts you end up with two Infinite entities?

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
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Posted - 15 Apr 2019 :  10:20:56  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't recall the participants of the discussion, but yeah, that was the gist of the conversation.

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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
908 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2019 :  11:17:19  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gylippus - your thoughts on the Finder's Stone trilogy echo my own 100%. I wasn't expecting to like The Wyvern's Spur because no Alias and Dragonbait (and even Akabar) - but very quickly fell in love with Giogi and learned to love Olive who continued her character arc & growth from the last chapters of Azure Bonds. Deep down, she is a good person and as much as she tries to not care, Tymora (or the hafling equivalent) force her to be a hero by luck, fate and circumstance. The donkey bits are amazing.

For me Azure Bonds and The Wyvern's Spur are about equally good - Azure Bonds I think is a grand, epic story sweeping the eastern heartlands of the Realms with witches, liches, gods, fiends and dragons - while Wyvern's Spur is a localized tale in the tiny village of Immersea - but somehow manages to be just as gripping without the world shattering events. Flattery is a fascinating villain (someone wrote a fan fiction and posted here that was very interesting) to me. Written as truly horrible and without any sympathy but...in Song of the Saurials we get to confront Finder on creating Flattery (both physically and emotionally) and maybe retroactively get to feel for him.

Song of the Saurials is the weakest of the books - I think maybe it is just not as focused, too many characters and storylines going on? Jeff/Kate write a good focused plot and when they stick to it, great. With 3-4 storylines going on in SotS (Finder/Olive, Grypht/Akabar, Alias&Angry Ranger, Coral/Moander) - also I don't think the whole Akabar in love with Kira the harper bard thing worked for me? It just felt weird, I know it was a love potion but as we didn't have any backstory on her and Akabar is married multiple times and has a thing for Alias and her sister and his wives and also Kira it just felt very hard to relate/follow. I kind of loved Alias and her sister fighting though.

Masquerades is not quite as good as the trilogy despite bringing Alias, Dragonbait and Olive back together - I think it could have been, and it is still good, but somehow it isn't as good of a mystery. Olive doesn't seem to be showing the growth from the trilogy in those novels...nor Alias? I don't know, the characters feel a bit off to me in Masquerades.

Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck are fun, good books with new characters to love and passing references to the old band (as well as god Finder).

For more of Giogi and Cat, they make a few cameos in other books (the Cormyr trilogy) including a quick showdown with Vangey that is fun to read.


Edited by - Seravin on 15 Apr 2019 11:20:19
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gylippus
Seeker

22 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2019 :  22:09:29  Show Profile Send gylippus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good points Seravin, and thanks for your thoughts.

I was thinking of a possible sequel to Wyvern's Spur that will never be written. In my sequel (Which occurs after Song of the Saurials) Olive is poking around in Jade's belongings again and finds a mysterious letter that references "A lock of hair". This sets her off on a quest back to Immersea to find the lock and resurrect Jade. Olive certainly has the resources to pay a cleric to resurrect, but she needs some part of the body, which was turned to ash. (Honestly, I have no idea the specifics of resurrection in the realms so I could be way off.) This story would be some type of mystery that brings all of the old characters back and ties off some lose ends. Does Julia finally marry Samtavan? Is Steele involved? Does Aunt Dorath agree to let Giogi and Cat marry? Who is the secret villain? Of course, someone much smarter and way more clever than me would have to write it.
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
908 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2019 :  23:10:21  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd read that in a second! While it was pretty quickly dealt with, the character of Jade Moore and her relationship with Olive is pretty fascinating. Olive is almost, maternal? With Jade...and I would kill for a prequel book written about how they met and got to where the book opens.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32000 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2019 :  03:38:03  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gylippus

Good points Seravin, and thanks for your thoughts.

I was thinking of a possible sequel to Wyvern's Spur that will never be written. In my sequel (Which occurs after Song of the Saurials) Olive is poking around in Jade's belongings again and finds a mysterious letter that references "A lock of hair". This sets her off on a quest back to Immersea to find the lock and resurrect Jade. Olive certainly has the resources to pay a cleric to resurrect, but she needs some part of the body, which was turned to ash. (Honestly, I have no idea the specifics of resurrection in the realms so I could be way off.) This story would be some type of mystery that brings all of the old characters back and ties off some lose ends. Does Julia finally marry Samtavan? Is Steele involved? Does Aunt Dorath agree to let Giogi and Cat marry? Who is the secret villain? Of course, someone much smarter and way more clever than me would have to write it.



The books Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck -- especially the latter -- do have interludes that show some of what has happened in Immersea, in the meantime.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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