Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Same olí Realms...
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Rils
Learned Scribe

USA
99 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2018 :  17:21:34  Show Profile Send Rils a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Something to think about is that WotC isn't in the business of Realmslore for the sake of Realmslore any more. D&D has seen a massive resurgence in popularity, and has been at or near the top of best seller lists since 5e debuted. Search YouTube or Twitch for D&D videos, you'll get hundreds of thousands of hits. Thousands of people show up to watch groups play the game at cons like PAX and Twitchcon. Live games like Critical Role get 50-60,000 viewers weekly - it's now a form entertainment, not just basement buddies doing their own thing. WotC isn't interested in revisiting or updating minutiae; they are focusing on producing products for the masses.

And I can't blame them. When you are only putting out a couple sourcebooks a year, they need to be accessible and have a high ROI for content. That's why they mix adventures, player's options, and lore all in one. For those of us who've been playing for 20 years, we've seen it before. For a new generation of gamers, there's a lot of fresh ground to cover.

There's no evil corporate plot to withhold precious Realmslore from a small minority who's interested in it. They are re-writing it as they go. And expanding the game from a niche hobby to something that is openly and freely discussed on national TV by folks like Stephen Colbert and Cooper Andersen (did you see the segment where they reminisced about their old characters, and decided that Andersen is an elf in real life?). Its unrealistic to expect a return to the 2e splatbook era - after all, that's what drove TSR to bankruptcy (along with some other bad business decisions). Right now it's clear that WotC has a stable business strategy, and one that's working well.

And they have set up things like the DMs Guild specifically for the purpose of expanding horizons in directions they aren't going. It's kind of a false argument to say "well that material isn't canon", when Ed himself has said that FR canon is whatever you want it to be. How many times have we all encouraged folks to "make it your own"?

I'd love official lore books as much as the next guy/gal. But it's also willful denial to suggest that WotC is somehow robbing us of that, when they've made it very clear that they aren't going to do what people here are accusing them of not doing. There are other outlets for that, and I highly encourage you all to make use of them! Investigate what other people are putting out there. Publish your own stuff. Don't just sit here in this quiet castle-library off the Swordcoast corner of the internet and complain about it. Don't like what the company is doing? Share with us what YOU'VE got! I feel confident in saying for all of us - we'd love to see it!

Dugmaren Brightmantle is my homey.
Go to Top of Page

Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
608 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2018 :  21:53:36  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rils

Something to think about is that WotC isn't in the business of Realmslore for the sake of Realmslore any more. D&D has seen a massive resurgence in popularity, and has been at or near the top of best seller lists since 5e debuted. Search YouTube or Twitch for D&D videos, you'll get hundreds of thousands of hits. Thousands of people show up to watch groups play the game at cons like PAX and Twitchcon. Live games like Critical Role get 50-60,000 viewers weekly - it's now a form entertainment, not just basement buddies doing their own thing. WotC isn't interested in revisiting or updating minutiae; they are focusing on producing products for the masses.

And I can't blame them. When you are only putting out a couple sourcebooks a year, they need to be accessible and have a high ROI for content. That's why they mix adventures, player's options, and lore all in one. For those of us who've been playing for 20 years, we've seen it before. For a new generation of gamers, there's a lot of fresh ground to cover.

There's no evil corporate plot to withhold precious Realmslore from a small minority who's interested in it. They are re-writing it as they go. And expanding the game from a niche hobby to something that is openly and freely discussed on national TV by folks like Stephen Colbert and Cooper Andersen (did you see the segment where they reminisced about their old characters, and decided that Andersen is an elf in real life?). Its unrealistic to expect a return to the 2e splatbook era - after all, that's what drove TSR to bankruptcy (along with some other bad business decisions). Right now it's clear that WotC has a stable business strategy, and one that's working well.

And they have set up things like the DMs Guild specifically for the purpose of expanding horizons in directions they aren't going. It's kind of a false argument to say "well that material isn't canon", when Ed himself has said that FR canon is whatever you want it to be. How many times have we all encouraged folks to "make it your own"?

I'd love official lore books as much as the next guy/gal. But it's also willful denial to suggest that WotC is somehow robbing us of that, when they've made it very clear that they aren't going to do what people here are accusing them of not doing. There are other outlets for that, and I highly encourage you all to make use of them! Investigate what other people are putting out there. Publish your own stuff. Don't just sit here in this quiet castle-library off the Swordcoast corner of the internet and complain about it. Don't like what the company is doing? Share with us what YOU'VE got! I feel confident in saying for all of us - we'd love to see it!



The DMs Guild is awesome and you're absolutely right.

Our only complaint is that it shouldn't be limited to just 5e edition and 5e timeline.

It should be an outlet for all these folks like George to make money off ALL of their hard hard work through the years regardless of timeline or edition.

We aren't bemoaning the resurgence of D&D or the DM's guild. It's a great business model.

We are bemoaning the lack of motivation for all these great people to publish the awesome lore they have ALREADY MADE on the platform that it's intended for...the DM's guild.

We WANT to support the business model, and we will pay for it.
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2018 :  04:06:22  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
It should be an outlet for all these folks like George to make money off ALL of their hard hard work through the years regardless of timeline or edition.



There's no money in gaming. My free releases at the DMs Guild have been downloaded 1000+ times. Work where I've charged a set fee - the biggest download number is about 137 - and as for pay what you want, it's about 800+ downloads for $20 of revenue! I don't do it for the money but was curious to see what FR fans out there were willing to pay for FR content. Not much as it turns out. Must be a reflection on the content ...!

I'll just have to lift my game clearly.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7593 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2018 :  12:29:33  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
It should be an outlet for all these folks like George to make money off ALL of their hard hard work through the years regardless of timeline or edition.



There's no money in gaming. My free releases at the DMs Guild have been downloaded 1000+ times. Work where I've charged a set fee - the biggest download number is about 137 - and as for pay what you want, it's about 800+ downloads for $20 of revenue! I don't do it for the money but was curious to see what FR fans out there were willing to pay for FR content. Not much as it turns out. Must be a reflection on the content ...!

I'll just have to lift my game clearly.

-- George Krashos



Well, at least I'm not the only one. You've put a lot more up there, but my stuff was basically helping cover my expenses (I've probably spent 2 to 3 times of my earnings). Out of curiosity, I just checked from June 2016 to now. I actually have 2 versions of my red book of spell strategy up, because I rushed the first one... and well, I've never taken the time to figure out how to remove the old version. Still, I'm not looking to make a profit. I'm looking to share my ideas. I think a lot of the ideas I've been discussing these last 2 years have finally started gelling in me, and I've spent this last week gathering my notes I've talked about here to start putting them together. I want to do a short story introduction for each of my tharchs now, with said story wandering around and giving a rough overview. Then a small actual overview of each tharch from a "fact" based standpoint. Its been a really fun effort for me from an imagining standpoint. I just wish work didn't get in the way..

I also need to go through the products I've found, because I actually planned to NOT develop a lot of things and instead put references to other people's DMs Guild products. For instance, if someone's already done a conversion of a lupin like fox humanoid race, I may reference that instead of creating my own rules. If there's a set of spells or magic items or monsters that I particularly think was done well, I may reference that. I know I'll be referencing some of Seethyr's Maztica works and another individual who did a lot of bestiaries.

Anyway, just to give people an idea of what I've seen for earnings. My red book of spell strategy is I think 156 pages (I have made some updates to my local copy and not uploaded it yet). I probably should have put a price on it instead of PWYW, but for me, its about sharing. If someone is making a big profit there, its got to be because they're charging a large set price. I've seen a few pieces worth that though. I will also state, I'm a cheapskate, and I give a lot of PWYW stuff only a nickel if its less than 10 pages. I always give something though, but I'll rarely download anything shorter than 5 pages, because usually its not even worth reading.

Art - Forgotten Realms Heraldry -FREE -
downloads 893 Profit 0 - but its free
The Complete Red Book of Spell Strategy - Pay What You Want - downloads 682 Profit $35.00
The Red Book of Spell Strategy - Pay What You Want - downloads 231 Profit $11.88

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

TheIriaeban
Seeker

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2018 :  17:18:32  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sadly, that site is 5e only. I have all kinds of stuff but it is 2e only and I have no intension of purchasing all I need to understand how the new stuff works so I can convert the 250+ spells and who knows how many items I have to the new system. Especially since it is not like I am going to start playing again. It is making me wonder if it is even worth it for me to post the stuff here. Does anyone still USE the 2e rules anymore?

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7593 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2018 :  05:59:15  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

Sadly, that site is 5e only. I have all kinds of stuff but it is 2e only and I have no intension of purchasing all I need to understand how the new stuff works so I can convert the 250+ spells and who knows how many items I have to the new system. Especially since it is not like I am going to start playing again. It is making me wonder if it is even worth it for me to post the stuff here. Does anyone still USE the 2e rules anymore?



Aulddragon is still posting 2e conversions of D&D gods throughout the universe. There's others as well. Personally, I'll never use the 2e rules again, but that's because I favored 3.5 (it gets broken at epic levels mind you because magic item bonuses get too big), but I also like Pathfinder and 5e. All 3 have their issues though (5e not enough rules written and tested through to have the breadth of 3.5, pathfinder also lacking options found in 3.5 and getting a bit too focused on the mechanics to see how it was goofy conceptually... its more than just dice and damage types).

However, many things are somewhat edition agnostic OR are a welcome enough idea that people will review it to plumb the idea for conversion. Some things from prior editions that were very cool just never got reintroduced and could use a looking over. For instance, I've been surprised that noone ever redid the 2nd edition bard spell sound bubble. Its different than silence, as you can still talk in the bubble. For many it would help accomplish what they require with silent spell metamagic (unless they're gagged), and would function for more than one spell. It also had an interesting area effect wherein you could isolate a group of people from another for sound, such that you could pretty much cut off communications without making it immediately obvious (i.e. it doesn't suddenly get real quiet). It can effectively make an area proof from sonic / thunder type attacks from spells and creatures. What level is it? 1st level. Still, if your gagged... its no use... of course there was also the vocalize spell... if a person were worried about that issue, might be worth keeping it memorized.

Honestly, on the above, I think the silent spell feat should have been removed /replaced by the later sudden silent spell (and sudden silent spell should have had the ability for several uses a day) in 3.5, and options like vocalize and sound bubble reintroduced. Thus, people would have the means to cast "quietly" without having to use a feat. However, for the person that doesn't have the luxury of spell slots to spare, having the feat option open lets them be prepared.

Now, I'll not say a lot of those spells from 2e bear a conversion. They were awesome for the time, but they were broken. Especially when it came to "triggered" or "hanging" spells... but anyway, I'm meandering.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Varl
Learned Scribe

USA
264 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2018 :  13:11:36  Show Profile Send Varl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

There's no money in gaming. My free releases at the DMs Guild have been downloaded 1000+ times. Work where I've charged a set fee - the biggest download number is about 137 - and as for pay what you want, it's about 800+ downloads for $20 of revenue! I don't do it for the money but was curious to see what FR fans out there were willing to pay for FR content. Not much as it turns out. Must be a reflection on the content ...!

I'll just have to lift my game clearly.


It's about visibility too. Until you just spoke it, I had no idea you had DMs Guild Realms content for sale, especially for a PWYW.


"Intimidation is a weapon of the Legion. Intelligence is not." -Illidan Stormrage
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2018 :  10:25:50  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My releases have been posted on a few FR Facebook pages as well as here. Not sure where else would get me more visibility. EnWorld maybe, but Iím saving that post for a big release.*grin*

ó George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31636 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2018 :  23:13:50  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rils

Its unrealistic to expect a return to the 2e splatbook era - after all, that's what drove TSR to bankruptcy (along with some other bad business decisions). Right now it's clear that WotC has a stable business strategy, and one that's working well.


There was a lot behind their 2E bankruptcy. I think that WotC and TSR proved, though, before then and after -- and that other companies have proven, as well -- that there is a market for campaign settings.

I think WotC feels that it's not profitable enough to justify the work they'd have to do, though it's clear that they could farm it out to some dedicated lorelords and get some awesome material. I think they won't do that because they want to keep it all in-house... where they don't have sufficient people to do it. So they don't think there's enough profit to invest internally, but they won't invest externally, either. And this leaves a ravenous, once-dedicated fanbase to wither away.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
608 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2018 :  14:41:28  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
It should be an outlet for all these folks like George to make money off ALL of their hard hard work through the years regardless of timeline or edition.



There's no money in gaming. My free releases at the DMs Guild have been downloaded 1000+ times. Work where I've charged a set fee - the biggest download number is about 137 - and as for pay what you want, it's about 800+ downloads for $20 of revenue! I don't do it for the money but was curious to see what FR fans out there were willing to pay for FR content. Not much as it turns out. Must be a reflection on the content ...!

I'll just have to lift my game clearly.

-- George Krashos



That's very surprising. I've only ever created 2 maps, and both ended up selling over $250 each.

Not bad really.

Have you considered other platforms (DriveThruRPG, etc)?

I know I would pay splat book prices for your material, so I have hard time comprehending why this is happening.
Go to Top of Page

JohnLynch
Learned Scribe

Australia
217 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2018 :  11:12:00  Show Profile Send JohnLynch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am quite happy with the current state of the Realms. Although to be honest I have zero need for WotC to produce any new content. I'm looking at starting a new Forgotten Realms campaign next year (although first I have to find a gaming group because I'm leaving my current group in Sydney ad moving to Adelaide at the end of January). I am very comfortable simply taking 1e, 2e and 3e material and farming it for ideas for a 5e campaign.

As for AD&D 2e, I'd happily play in a 2e campaign, although I don't like my chances on finding a group these days ;)
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2018 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000