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 Do you think Evermeet was a mistake?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29912 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2017 :  00:40:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's part of why I've maintained that even before a Netherese enclave fell on it, that Myth Drannor worked best largely unclaimed. And though I'm behind on reading my FR novels, I've been told that it was that way in canon, despite the way the ending of the Last Mythal books makes it look over and done with.

My take has always been that the reclaimed part was something more like a walled frontier settlement: a place where you can relax in safety, but where you're close enough to step through a gate and into danger. A small part of the city has been reclaimed and resettled, but it's still just a small area, surrounded by dangerous ruins. And that small area serves as a base for expeditions into "the wilds" of the unclaimed city.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13468 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2017 :  05:51:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Right, and thanks to the Spellplague nonsense, we could even ADD to those ruins, without it being weird.

So despite there being tiny 'Points of Light' in and around Myth Drannor now, the ruins themselves could be far more extensive - and dangerous - than they were even in the past.

Now take that and add-in that we already knew of tons of subterranean stuff that went on there (including some dwarves that were building their own places beneath the woods), and the entire forest starts to become the ultimate mega-dungeon, with Myth Drannor as its hub. The city itself - as massive as it is - is merely the tip of the iceberg. Or, at least, they can start spinning it that way. It could easily compete with Undermountain (and be connected with that place - and Skullport - if one had the fortitude to walk that far in the Underdark). And then there's Gates.

They can use it as 5e's version of the Chaos Scar - all different level encounters/areas clustered in one spot, with several different (level) 'bases' for PCs to resupply and rest between 'runs'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 15 Mar 2017 05:53:03
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1798 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2017 :  20:01:16  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think Evermeet itself was a mistake. I think it's a great idea, and remains one. Elves need a sacred land. The elves were in Retreat, and then there was the Return. I don't want the elves to completely leave Faerun, but it is their "sanctuary" in a way the "mainland" cities/forests can't be, at least not anymore. And now, Evermeet is part of 3 worlds: Feywild, Toril, and Arvandor.

And my personal opinion on Myth Drannor is that after the Reclamation, it should not have been destroyed yet again. I was miffed, even if Ed said it wasn't the entire city. Just my preference.

Sweet water and light laughter

Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 04 Apr 2017 20:02:44
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2607 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2017 :  20:46:07  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I don't think Evermeet itself was a mistake. I think it's a great idea, and remains one. Elves need a sacred land. The elves were in Retreat, and then there was the Return. I don't want the elves to completely leave Faerun, but it is their "sanctuary" in a way the "mainland" cities/forests can't be, at least not anymore. And now, Evermeet is part of 3 worlds: Feywild, Toril, and Arvandor.



They created Evermeet during a time when they ruled the world and were hardly threatened by anything. They did so to gain a supposedly "safe haven" from Ilythiir, at the immediate price of countless lives (many of which were in Ilythiir, where they ironically helped Lolth gain power by weakening Vhaeraun's numbers).

When Evermeet began to see any use, after the Crown Wars, fleeing there marked the beginning of the decline of the elves. If they had stayed, things would likely look quite different by now (after all, some elves did remain on Toril, and they managed to flourish for millennia, although unlikely magical conjunctures or reckless use of magic--with the help, in the case of Eaerlann, of the retreat itself--would then cause their fall).

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Edited by - Irennan on 04 Apr 2017 20:47:52
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1798 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2017 :  21:02:21  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I don't think Evermeet itself was a mistake. I think it's a great idea, and remains one. Elves need a sacred land. The elves were in Retreat, and then there was the Return. I don't want the elves to completely leave Faerun, but it is their "sanctuary" in a way the "mainland" cities/forests can't be, at least not anymore. And now, Evermeet is part of 3 worlds: Feywild, Toril, and Arvandor.



They created Evermeet during a time when they ruled the world and were hardly threatened by anything. They did so to gain a supposedly "safe haven" from Ilythiir, at the immediate price of countless lives. When Evermeet began to see any use, after the Crown Wars, fleeing there marked the beginning of the decline of the elves. If they had stayed, things would likely look quite different by now (after all, some elves did remain on Toril, and they managed to flourish for millennia, although unlikely magical conjunctures or reckless use of magic--with the help, in the case of Eaerlann, of the retreat itself--would then cause their fall).



True (it caused the first Sundering, after all). What I meant was that Evermeet itself, the idea of it, was a great idea, even if the actual execution of it resulted in a literal change on the face of Toril. It is a sanctuary, whether that came in to play before or after the elves of Faerun began to decline. I think, if the Crown Wars wouldn't have happened, things would have looked very different. With any great empire, it's downfall means a decline in the race, be that the fault of the empire, or external forces.

Yes, plenty of elves remained on the mainland. You have cities like Evereska and Myth Drannor (before its fall and then again after its reclamation). As a whole, the elves are still a thriving race, but Evermeet does provide a safe haven, if and when they need it.

Sweet water and light laughter
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1396 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2017 :  09:29:53  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X


quote:
Also, they moved out under pressure, yet somehow no one moved in.


Monsters did. You read about old elven cities, and are full of demons, devils, beholders, etc.
They count as intelligent races on the Realms.

But the Retreat wasn't "Waah, those owlbears will have us oppresseded outbred and outfought!!1", it was supposedly about humans and goblinoids, no?

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I don't think Evermeet itself was a mistake. I think it's a great idea, and remains one. Elves need a sacred land.

Why do the elves need it any more than anyone else?

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I think, if the Crown Wars wouldn't have happened, things would have looked very different.

The problem with this is that the Crown Wars are called so in plural. Things would have to look very different indeed to avoid ALL of them. Including the Seven Citadels' War.
quote:
Yes, plenty of elves remained on the mainland. You have cities like Evereska and Myth Drannor (before its fall and then again after its reclamation). As a whole, the elves are still a thriving race

"Thriving"?
Given that Eltargrim after long deliberation decided that transfusion and "if you cannot stop it, lead it" is the only way to survive? And the general level of decline in Cormanthyr before this?
And then, the Retreat - the elves themselves figured out that they can't stand the pressure. With their pride and deep roots, this have to count for something.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1798 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2017 :  16:21:50  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, the aren't thriving in the same way other races are, no, but they aren't entirely in Retreat anymore, either. They're not on the verge of disappearing.

And the elves aren't the only ones who need a sacred land, but considering we're talking about Evermeet here, I figured it was relavant.


Sweet water and light laughter
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1396 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2017 :  04:30:20  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Well, the aren't thriving in the same way other races are, no, but they aren't entirely in Retreat anymore, either. They're not on the verge of disappearing.

Which raised the question how much of it is deus ex machina.
quote:
And the elves aren't the only ones who need a sacred land, but considering we're talking about Evermeet here,

Yep, but most of the folk around them somehow live without one, for good or ill.
Does it give them something that helps? Or only a comfort blanket? Or worse, false sense of security?

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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