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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
856 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2018 :  00:42:10  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's awful Wooly---your opinions are always courteous even when you really, really dislike something. You're like the nicest person. So odd. I think some mods really like some series there and if you bash them (validly and politely even) you risk a ban!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31591 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2018 :  00:53:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It likely didn't help that a lot of people really, really like the War of the Spider Queen books. A lot of people in that discussion were saying how awesome the books were and how they were some of the best books of the Realms, and then I come in and call them over-hyped, underwhelming, and then start providing reasons why I feel that way.

I've actually been much slower to share my dislike of certain very popular novels, because I know I'm in a minority on them. More than one popular series, I held my tongue on for a year or more after reading them, because I didn't like them.

That's also why I tend to post a disclaimer when someone says they're going to go with my recommendation on something they've not yet read. I do like it when people like books that I've liked, obviously, but given that I've thoroughly disliked some popular stuff, it's obvious my opinions aren't always inline with the mainstream, here.

My friend Callmegene and I have similar tastes in books, and we've inflicted a lot of books on each other, over the years -- but even he and I disagree on books more often than some might expect.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Man-of-Fur
Seeker

Canada
15 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2018 :  13:47:26  Show Profile Send Man-of-Fur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I feel pretty awful after reading this thread. Is there anything I can do Wooly to make ammends. I tried in vain to find the thread in question.

Mike from the Forgotten Realms Archives...
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1743 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2018 :  17:29:30  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GoForTheEyes

Mike told them that FRA doesn't allow promotions from groups "in direct competition" with the FRA. AFAIK Facebook doesn't limit how many groups a person can be in, so this seems really stupid.

Not surprising. There's a sort of, uh, folks, who think if you use whichever thing let them ride in the driver's cabin (more often than not, just by worming their way in), you are their peon for life and they get to thought-police what you do anywhere, etc.
See also the "Code of Conduct" scandals, etc. It's a smell of rot.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 25 Oct 2018 17:31:22
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31591 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2018 :  19:42:53  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Man-of-Fur

I feel pretty awful after reading this thread. Is there anything I can do Wooly to make ammends. I tried in vain to find the thread in question.



The offer is appreciated, but once bitten, twice shy -- I'm not going to return, at least not at this time.

If you truly want to improve things, though, then make sure my experience isn't repeated. Give warnings before bans. Look and see if a post is really bashing, as you yourself accused me of, or if it's just a negative opinion addressing very specific and explicitly described issues. Don't ignore people that message you for clarification on your actions, and certainly don't -- as I'm told you did -- go bash the newly-banned person in discussion with other moderators. (Note: my last point here is what I was told happened, by a third party; it is the only thing I didn't directly experience firsthand).

Just show some restraint and some respect. Give people a chance and try to work with them. Don't treat others like you treated me.

If you can promise me that and follow through on it, I will consider the matter rectified and amends to have been made.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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CylverSaber
Learned Scribe

95 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2018 :  21:01:50  Show Profile  Visit CylverSaber's Homepage Send CylverSaber a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would add that considering there seem to be a number of these incidents affecting multiple people, there ought to be a public post in the group apologizing for the abuse of moderating powers, and outlining a new policy that explicitly details what are and are not acceptable reasons for deleting posts or banning members, and what members can do if they feel they've been treated unfairly.

It's honestly still mind-boggling to me that I had to go directly to RAS to pressure you guys into overturning a ban you had no justification for in the first place. I still browse the group, but that incident definitely soured me on participating in a place where that sort of thing could happen to anyone at anytime.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7509 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2018 :  21:20:03  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll say rereading this, I definitely am not interested. I'm cantankerous and opinionated at times, but I feel that everyone should be able to say what they feel. Sometimes I've found that hearing someone with the exact opposite viewpoint from me has actually made me rethink some of the things that I was thinking about. Markustay was good at that for me, and I miss him for throwing rough ideas against lately. George seems to be pretty good for that as well, as his responses seem well thought through, but he's less rambling like me and Markustay and more succinct. Even though me and Dazzlerdal seem to be going in different directions on a lot of topics too (especially surrounding gods), reading his concepts often opens up other avenues for myself that I'd never even considered (and when we're both going in the same direction, I think we develop some really good stuff... I still love some of the stuff we were talking about with spirits in the unapproachable east in the past). You can have a different opinion from someone else and still enjoy their viewpoint or even glean ideas from them.


That all being said, if they banned Wooly of all people... something's not right there... I don't think I've ever seen a mod more friendly except maybe Sage... which, btw, anyone seen Sage lately?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Bragi
Seeker

USA
51 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2018 :  21:56:22  Show Profile  Visit Bragi's Homepage  Send Bragi an AOL message  Send Bragi an ICQ Message  Send Bragi a Yahoo! Message Send Bragi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
That all being said, if they banned Wooly of all people... something's not right there... I don't think I've ever seen a mod more friendly except maybe Sage... which, btw, anyone seen Sage lately?



I joined yesterday after reading about their member prizes. I created a post and Steven Schend liked it so I was irrationally excited about that! It looks like they have a fair amount of author participation. I much prefer having Candlekeep as a archive and forum to refer back to. Trying to find something on Facebook is a struggle. I'm not planning on posting any unfavorable opinions or critical analysis over there. It may be better suited for discussions with the authors of which the relevant parts can then be used here. That's my initial impression.

In Pursuit of Better Worlds,
Bragi of Erin
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GoForTheEyes
Acolyte

2 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2018 :  22:02:04  Show Profile Send GoForTheEyes a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber

I would add that considering there seem to be a number of these incidents affecting multiple people, there ought to be a public post in the group apologizing for the abuse of moderating powers, and outlining a new policy that explicitly details what are and are not acceptable reasons for deleting posts or banning members, and what members can do if they feel they've been treated unfairly.

It's honestly still mind-boggling to me that I had to go directly to RAS to pressure you guys into overturning a ban you had no justification for in the first place. I still browse the group, but that incident definitely soured me on participating in a place where that sort of thing could happen to anyone at anytime.



This is a good thought, but I don't think actually doing it is a good idea, because most if not all of the marginalized people won't be able to see it, since they're either out of the group or not paying attention. In fact, I would only see more harm than good, to the marginalized people I mean, because what's most likely to happen is that people who are unaware of the issues will speak up and invalidate the experiences of those who have been treated unfairly. This will in turn provide validation to the group admins to keep doing what they've been doing, which they really don't need additional validation for. Just my two cents.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2267 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2018 :  00:48:49  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been a member of Candlekeep for several years now (though I am not as active as I used to be). But I am also on the FRA. The group allows people to express their differing opinions. It's okay to not like a book or character. The group just doesn't allow for direct bashing of said character or author, which I think is fair enough. There are works I don't like, and I've said as much, and given my reasons for why.

CandleKeep feels more scholarly at times (as these halls tend to attract more scholarly types). The FRA has a broader base, from casual fans who are just getting started, to long time fans (not saying there aren't newcomers here, as well, just pointing out the differences I have noted). I don't think we should be comparing one to the other, though. Both are for Realms fans, and both have their pros and cons. I've enjoyed my time on both.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31591 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2018 :  02:52:26  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

The group just doesn't allow for direct bashing of said character or author, which I think is fair enough.


It is fair enough... But I didn't bash a character or author. I said that I felt the WotSQ books were overhyped and that I had a lot of issues with them -- and then I listed my issues. I didn't do a "hur, this sux!" -- I spoke of issues with shifting characterizations, of issues with the group dynamic of the main characters, why I felt Lolth's overall plot and its end result did not make sense... I gave specific reasons, and several of them -- the same stuff I've said here -- and my posts were removed and I was temporarily banned. And it was without any kind of warning.

I can't speak to the experiences of others. Yes, I have heard of others that have had negative experiences -- but I've not witnessed those things myself, and having 10,000 members does rather strongly imply that those folks with the bad experiences, and myself, are in a minority.

All I can say is that I had a bad experience, and since it's not the first time I've encountered heavy-handed moderation someplace, I decided it was best to just walk away.

Honestly, such experiences are why I try to keep my own moderation to a minimum. Between one mod on the WotC forums and another on the HMP forums, I saw enough to get a good idea of what not to do.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2267 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2018 :  03:20:58  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fair enough. Negative experiences are bound to happen from time to time in such groups (nature of the internet). I think sometimes the line of what is opinion and what is bashing gets blurred, and people...react, if that makes sense. Not advocating for either side here, just trying to give perspective. Sorry you had a bad experience.

Sweet water and light laughter
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