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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
237 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2017 :  16:51:29  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

Sea of S Words.



Now that's an interesting concept!



Oh Sh*t, its a sahuagin sea sorcerer slavedriving sea serpents in our direction!!!



It's actually from an SNL bit a few years ago. On Celebrity Jeopardy Sean Connery (played brilliantly by Darrell Hammond) liked to purposely mispronounce category titles to fluster Alex Trebek (Will Ferrell). The actual category's name was S-Words, but he said "Alex, I'll take swords for $1,000." What started as a rather benign play on words got progressively more vulgar, with "An Album Cover" being rephrased into "Anal Bum Cover" and "Who Reads?" morphing into "Whore Ads?"

Because of this skit, amongst my group of friends, we rarely say the word sword anymore. Anytime we're playing an RPG - videogame or tabletop, we almost invariably substitute in s-word, it's become somewhat ingrained into our vocabulary.

Sorry for the derail :)
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BountyHunter
Seeker

Canada
47 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2017 :  20:09:09  Show Profile Send BountyHunter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Penis Mightier.

LOL! Derailed even more.
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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
237 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2017 :  18:14:41  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
^ That's a good one!

Ok, let's get this thing back on the tracks. Last night I finished Sea of *Swords*. It was a decent, though fairly unremarkable, read. Often with this complete FR project I will keep a scrap piece of paper in the final page of a book and jot down some talking points as I progress through, but this book didn't generate much. That's not to say it was a bad or boring read, it just didn't impact me a great deal, I guess.

One part I did like was when the party is nearly wiped out by a band of mostly run-of-the-mill ogres and half-ogres attacking a sentry outpost. This was a much-needed display that even such mighty heroes as the Companions of the Hall can't take any encounter for granted. RAS's characters are almost always phenoms and super heroes of near Elminster proportions, so seeing them humbled by a foe that probably shouldn't have given them that hard a time was a nice change of pace.

Very early in this thread, after reviewing the first few RAS books, another poster commented on how his books often have very Tolkein-like content. I immediately thought back to that while reading the scene of the companions trudging their way through a blizzard. Bruenor takes the point, using his stout body to plow a path, while Drizzt - light and balanced as only an elf can be - walks alongside the group, able to stay up on the top layer of snow without breaking the crust. I envisioned the first LOTR movie, with Boromir leading the group through the mountain pass (before they abandon it in favor of cutting through the Mines of Moria), while Legolas walks along beside them. Enough so that I looked up the release dates of both products - the Fellowship of the Ring came out in December of 2001, while this particular book was first published in October of the same year, 2 months earlier. I do not recall if that specific scene was mentioned in JRR's books, it's literally been decades since I've read that trilogy.

That's all I've got for this book. Tonight I'll start on Black Wolf, which I'm fairly excited for. I like the author, I like the character, all of the Sembia stuff has been a very pleasant surprise thus far. Also I recall another poster here recommending it while we were discussing various lycanthrope tales in the D&D novel universe. So here's to hoping it delivers.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29723 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2017 :  18:31:45  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It was in the books. I've recently read the Lord of the Rings, and I recall Legolas skipping along, unhindered by the snow.

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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
784 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2017 :  04:09:54  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*cough* I'm the the *another poster* here who recommended Black Wolf. And yes, I liked that book on a recent re-read! Hope you enjoy!
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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
237 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2017 :  18:22:44  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oops, sorry Seravin. I had your recommendation of Black Wolf confused with this one:
quote:
Originally posted by Iahn Qoyllor

I don't know if you've read Mistress of the Night yet which is a joint collaboration between Dave Gross and Don Bassingthwaite and forms part of The Priests novels, of which there were four. This is a book with werewolves and a decent read at that.


I'm guessing, because of the author and the title of the series, that book continues the story of Feena the Selunite cleric? That would be pretty cool, I'm digging her and Talbot. Please don't confirm or deny, I'd rather wait and be surprised.

As for Black Wolf - terrific read! I feel like a broken record right now, but pretty much all the Uskevren material has been top notch, and this might have been the best of the bunch. The characters were very well realized, particularly the villains - Rusk, and the Malveens (Stannis and Radu) made for three excellent baddies - most books struggle just to come up with one. Stannis was particularly intriguing - I still don't know exactly what he was, some kind of aquatic vampire/lamprey (vamprey?) bloated monstrosity. He stole the show several times, with his odd mannerisms, one moment a perfect gentleman, the next a tantrum-throwing brute. Early on I sort of envisioned Oogie Boogie from the classic Nightmare Before Christmas and since that moment Stannis delivered all his lines in a similar voice in my mind's theater.

It's hard to come up with anything I didn't like about this book, even the artwork was well-done. I guess some of the dialogue got a little close to modern-day jargon, and there was one scene with Tal and Feena "arguing/flirting" while Chaney taunted them from the peanut gallery that got dangerously close to a cheesy rom-com, but the author managed to reign it in before any real damage was done. Great book, can't wait to see more from Dave Gross. I'm even contemplating picking up some Pathfinder literature since I searched him out and saw he did quite a bit of work in that world.

Up next is part 2 of the Return of the Archwizards: The Siege.

Edited by - VikingLegion on 10 Apr 2017 18:23:41
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
784 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2017 :  01:00:53  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Knew you'd like that one, I do think it's the best of the Sembia series but also because I think Werewolf fiction is fun to read. I agree they managed to get 3 great villains in (sort of like Abbot and Costello meet Frankenstein which had Frankenstein, the Wolfman and Dracula as villains). The Malveen manor house reminded me of those spooky 30s horror movies in black and white.

Sorry for your next read; I'm just not a fan of the journey to 3rd edition (or god forbid, 4th edition!).
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Thoth
Seeker

Canada
22 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2017 :  12:48:20  Show Profile Send Thoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Black Wolf was great. I agree.

I was on the fence about AtS. I thought it was...okay. Meh.
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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
237 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2017 :  18:52:41  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I finished The Siege a couple nights ago. I liked it, didn't love it. I've always enjoyed all things Netheril, so the whole Shade meta-plot is interesting to me. I imagine at the time of its unveiling it probably was met with much derision, but I think it's going ok (again, not great, but not a disaster).

I like how the plot is developing - particularly how Shade is growing continually more hostile, due in large part to some poor diplomatic exchanges, both in Waterdeep and Cormyr. The thing is, I think in both instances there were some ill-conceived comments from the supposed "good guys" that really escalated things. Alusair came off as extremely unlikeable in this one.

Something I didn't like is how absurd some of the numbers get. Hundreds of beholders lined up in military formation? When I hear "beholder" I think of an awful creature, so powerful as to be the "boss mob" of any story, not one of a cluster of mooks that is going to get gunned down en masse like a red-shirt. And just how is Cormyr mounting a campaign against anyone on the heels of the ghazneth/Nauthgarntlaueruiyio (whatever that dragon's name is, I'm not looking it up) conflict? It was implied that Cormyr was all but depleted by the end of that fighting, and would need a decade or so before more knights and war wizards could fill out the armed forces again. I think Denning is falling into the Greenwood trap here, just throwing numbers around willy-nilly to ratchet up the drama during the fight scenes. For me, it really hurts the verisimilitude of the story and entire gaming world when there are no lasting consequences of a major war.

I really like how the shadevar are terraforming the Anauroch Desert. I don't have enough knowledge of weather patterns to know if it would cause such drastic climate changes in the rest of Faerun, I'll just have to trust Denning on that one. It makes for an interesting moral dilemma. Obviously it's wrong of them to ruin other country's food supplies and environments, but at the same time, an argument can be made that they are just trying to improve their own situation and have the right to restore their former lands to the conditions they once had. I'm not saying what they are doing is right or justifiable, but it goes a long way in making them believable characters and not just cardboard dastardly villains.

I've recently started playing the game Neverwinter on my PS4, so I've accidentally picked up some lore spoilers about Shade before reading this series. Then again, the transition of these guys with filed fangs, mastery over darkness, and hailing from a plane that is almost invariably associated with evil into the villain role, wasn't exactly a mind-blowing surprise.

Up next, I have a bit of a dilemma. I sort of want to take a brief break from FR books and re-read Neil Gaiman's excellent American Gods in preparation of the Starz series due out in 10 days. It's been at least a decade since I read that book, and I might want a refresher before the TV show. On the other hand, maybe it's best to keep my memory of it hazy, so that the show can surprise me more and/or I won't nitpick every discrepancy, like the Game of Thrones superfans do when HBO doesn't get every tiny detail perfect. What do you guys think? Is it better to re-familiarize with a story, or leave it alone and enjoy a new presentation?

Being unable to decide right now, I'll probably just start in on the 2002 novels, beginning with The Jewel of Turmish. The other 2002 books are:

The Wizardwar
Realms of Shadow
Heirs of Prophecy
Dissolution
Hand of Fire
The Thousand Orcs
Sands of the Soul
The Sorcerer
Insurrection

Edited by - VikingLegion on 20 Apr 2017 18:55:08
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29723 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2017 :  20:06:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

I like how the plot is developing - particularly how Shade is growing continually more hostile, due in large part to some poor diplomatic exchanges, both in Waterdeep and Cormyr. The thing is, I think in both instances there were some ill-conceived comments from the supposed "good guys" that really escalated things. Alusair came off as extremely unlikeable in this one.



That's a lot of why I don't like that trilogy: the established, non-Denning white hats come off as antagonistic jerks, idiots, or both, despite how they've been handled in all other Realmslore. Meanwhile, his white hats always know exactly the right thing to do, even if other people are trying to stop them.

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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
784 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2017 :  05:21:49  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Jewel of Turmish is an interesting one. I actually think the villain is one of the creepiest in the Realms and the author pulls NO punches with him; it's disgusting and gruesome and awesome at the same time when he goes on a killing rampage. BUT(!)

Turmish to me was established as a land that a man would have many wives and is all about Trade; I expected more Akabar Bel Akash characters, but instead the whole "city" of Alaghôn is just a generic seaport. It could literally be anywhere. The villain and the druids are clearly from the area, but the rest of the Turmish culture is ignored completely. So on that part it was a let down, because I wanted to read about a new culture that I heard about from Akabar in the Finder's Stone trilogy.

And yes, Troy Denning books are SO hit and miss. The Parched Sea to me is his best work because it's set not in the parts of the Realms where any other established characters show up. When he wrote in Ed's character (Varena Hawklyn) in the sequel Vieiled Dragon she was a hot-headed imbecile who was always wrong (like Wooly says of other author's characters); along with most of the Harpers that Ruha comes into contact with...
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2017 :  18:56:24  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Turmish to me was established as a land that a man would have many wives and is all about Trade; I expected more Akabar Bel Akash characters, but instead the whole "city" of Alaghôn is just a generic seaport. It could literally be anywhere. The villain and the druids are clearly from the area, but the rest of the Turmish culture is ignored completely. So on that part it was a let down, because I wanted to read about a new culture that I heard about from Akabar in the Finder's Stone trilogy.



I too was very disappointed with this aspect. Despite Turmish being in the title, we find out very little about it, and while the entirety of the title refers to Alaghôn, there isn't much more about the city than the region as a whole. : The book could've been named something related to druids, the Emerald Circle, or Borran Klosk, and would've been much less misleading.
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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
237 Posts

Posted - 23 Apr 2017 :  11:23:24  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I'm not finished with the book yet, I just wanted to jump in and share a little interlude here:

As I get closer to finishing my FR collection (from a purchase perspective, not a reading one - that will take another 2-3 years I'm guessing) the books get more and more difficult to find at a reasonable price. I use a combination of Abebooks and Amazon to track them down, and I've managed to acquire the vast majority of the entire series for about $3-$4 apiece. Every now and then I'll reach and spend in the $5-$10 range for a particularly stubborn book that won't come down in price. I'm left with just a handful of books in the late 2000s and early 20-teens that won't budge from a ridiculous price point.

For example: the first of the Brimstone Angels series by Erin M. Evans. When I first started searching, this book was around $225 for the cheapest copy! I check once a month, and saw a few copies spring up in the $100ish range. Recently I found one for $80, and just a couple days ago I found a handful in the mid $50s. But then, yesterday while rummaging around through the basement of a used bookstore with my wife about 40 minutes from our home, there it was - a near pristine copy of Brimstone Angels just sitting there amidst a pile of other fantasy/sci-fi novels - for a mere $3.50. I snatched it up, along with a few others, and counted my blessings. Thank Ao for elderly shopkeepers who are not internet savvy! He saw the pile of books in my hand and told me he's doing a 50% off sale of *every* book in the store next week, and I should come back then. I said "Yeah, I think I'll just pay full price for these now, thanks."

I also picked up an Elaine Cunningham book called The Radiant Dragon. It's part of a 6-book series titled "The Cloakmaster Series", which begins on Krynn (the world of Dragonlance) but ends up in Wildspace, as it is a Spelljammer series. It looks pretty cheesy, but I'll give anything from Elaine a chance, so now I have to track down the rest of that sextet. I snagged two of them for about $2.75 each.

The point of this post? I guess it's that I love old, used bookstores. Snaring that Evans book yesterday was the kind of score I dream about every time I enter one of these havens. I'm always saddened to hear about one closing up shop for good, which happens all-too often now, sadly. I live in an area of New England that is extremely literature-friendly, so I still have an abundance of these treasure troves to delve through.
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Taleras
Acolyte

11 Posts

Posted - 23 Apr 2017 :  13:52:05  Show Profile Send Taleras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why are books going for that much?? Was it not printed much at all? No kindle version? Limited edition? I haven't reached that series yet, but I'm glad I downloaded the start off Audible for $5 in case I can't find a decently priced hard copy when I get there.
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Veylandemar
Acolyte

3 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2017 :  04:03:57  Show Profile Send Veylandemar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As a potential suggestiong if you're happy to purchase from Australia, there's a Sydney based specialty bookstore called Galaxy Books ( http://www.galaxybooks.com.au ) which still carries most Realms novels from the last few years at far more reasonable prices.

Comparatively, the Australian dollar is particularly weak against the American at the moment, and they ship internationally ( http://www.galaxybooks.com.au/galaxy-bookshop/shipping-information.do )

The staff are pretty friendly and may be able to help you track down some of the novels you're missing if you send them through an email request.
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
784 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2017 :  06:38:08  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ebooks are your friend! I have my collection on a Kobo and re-read them on rotation. The most I've paid is $9.99 Canadian for anything.
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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
237 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2017 :  21:38:49  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Taleras - This is just a guess, not supported by anything other than my own experience attempting to buy a physical copy of every FR book; but I suspect the print quantities slowed way down sometime in the late 90s/ early 2000s. When the first Moonshae and Icewind Dale books came out in the late 80s they were wildly successful. As the years wore on, the popularity inevitably waned, and also TSR got into all kinds of financial trouble, and I assume printed a lot less books. For example, if I look up The Crystal Shard I can easily find dozens and dozens of copies, starting as low as $3.47 USD. Contrast that with 2012's Venom in Her Veins, I only see 15 copies (only checking one source) with prices ranging from ~$18 up to nearly $120. So I really think it's just a matter of available supply and what's floating around out there [and also how badly a seller wants to gouge a potential buyer]. Sometimes you just have to wait it out and let the sellers keep undercutting each other to get to the #1 position, and then you strike when it's become tolerable. Eventually the guy in the #15 spot is going to wise up and realize absolutely nobody is going to pay that kind of coin for an old, out-of-print D&D book, and he drops down to become the new low price. If the new #15 then sees this and does the same thing, the price will steadily drop over time as the cycle keeps going, slow but steady. Then sometimes you get that one outlier - EX: there was a Cunningham book that I checked for weekly and never saw it for less than ~$40, then one day I saw a copy for $7 and I snagged it in a heartbeat. There is an element of luck involved.

@Veylandemar (cool name, btw) - thank you for that suggestion, I'll add it to my rotation of monthly checks. At this point I'm down to single digits and just a few stubborn books left to acquire.

@Seravin - ebooks are a path I will travel only for those stories that cannot be obtained in physical form. I don't know why that is so important to me, but it is. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand all the advantages inherent in going that format (way better for vacationing, storage, etc), but having the actual book in hand is almost a must for me, unless there is no other option. I have no idea why.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13271 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2017 :  23:21:28  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

I like how the plot is developing - particularly how Shade is growing continually more hostile, due in large part to some poor diplomatic exchanges, both in Waterdeep and Cormyr. The thing is, I think in both instances there were some ill-conceived comments from the supposed "good guys" that really escalated things. Alusair came off as extremely unlikeable in this one.



That's a lot of why I don't like that trilogy: the established, non-Denning white hats come off as antagonistic jerks, idiots, or both, despite how they've been handled in all other Realmslore. Meanwhile, his white hats always know exactly the right thing to do, even if other people are trying to stop them.
Yeah, same here. Even Elminster came off as a bit of a Putz in that one.

And just forget about Laeral.
"Hey, I just lost an ENTIRE ARMY. They all got killed! Guess I need another army Tee hee hee!"

Thats almost an exact quote. Tens of thousands of people in her direct command get killed, and her only response (wistfully I might add), was "Guess I need another army". My jaw literally dropped to the floor when I read that (fortunately, I had some good jaw-glue on hand...)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3217 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2017 :  06:57:31  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well having poured through Eds thread for the past 2 months solid i can venture an easy explanation.

All the chosen are insane to varying degrees. Laerel has been completely insane so maybe without khelben around she loses touch with reality rather easily.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29723 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2017 :  10:13:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Well having poured through Eds thread for the past 2 months solid i can venture an easy explanation.

All the chosen are insane to varying degrees. Laerel has been completely insane so maybe without khelben around she loses touch with reality rather easily.



Khelben was still around, then.

The problem is that characters from this trilogy don't act like they do in any other Realms material. If Laeral had lost touch with reality, she got it back very quickly and without it being mentioned anywhere else.

Also, Ed has never said the Chosen were "completely" insane -- just that they weren't 100% sane. Their ability to cope effectively is shown in every other bit of lore, aside from this trilogy.

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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3217 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2017 :  11:01:47  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I only said he had said they were insane to varying degrees.

Laeral has been completely insane in the recent past (crown of horns).

But as you pointed out with this and most novels, the characters change dramatically depending upon the writer.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13271 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2017 :  14:00:21  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like the idea that close proximity to Khelben is required to maintain her sanity (I can use that), but it doesn't fit other lore, and its certainly NOT an excuse for all the oddness in that series.

Or the fact that 'Dennings Darlings' (HIS Mary-Sues) seem to always behave perfectly, and show up in places where it makes NO SENSE for them to be.

Still, I though his research in that particular series was top-notch; much better connected to the Realms than any other stuff of his I've read.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 25 Apr 2017 14:00:53
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