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AJA
Senior Scribe

USA
747 Posts

Posted - 13 Apr 2019 : 01:09:33

Just saw this on Ed's twitter (#Realmslore), thought it might be of interest;

quote:
No, the Moonshae Isles were in the Realms before D&D existed. (I created and named them.) TSR asked if I minded if they switched out my Isles for Doug's Albion campaign (which TSR UK was going to publish before it became just a distributor), and I said that was fine, so my Hebrides-style "many small islands" went away, and Doug's came in (and the Ffolk with them). In my original, "Moonshaes" meant "Kissed By the Moon" or "Embraced By The Moon" or "Fed By The Moon," as the name was so old the origin had begun to fade.

AJA
YAFRP

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 13 Apr 2019 : 08:59:50

That's a good find, I shall have to think how to add that in, possibly as a legend of the leshay or elves passed onto the ffolk. I've rather neglected the moon as a source in my version thus far, I may have yo correct that

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2019 : 09:06:43

Started on the broken ring. Decided to make it just a criminal gang because not every organisation has to have a clandestine plot and some of then aren't meant to last for hundreds of years.
The broken ring just wants to make money, lots of it. I'll have them in the east coast of corwell, the West coast of callidyrr and all of Snowdown. They get involved in banditry, burglary, pick pocketing, extortion, smuggling, and information (mostly on ship cargoes sold to pirates of nelanther).

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2019 : 13:22:05

Sooo, halls of the high king mentions a barrow in rural callidyrr that is home to a vampire and his service undead (sights, ghouls, etc).

So I'm thinking first the location. It says rural callidyrr so to my mind that means not near caer callidyrr. It also doesn't say in the forest so I'm picturing in the south where it is mostly open fields.

Then is who is this vampire and where/when did he come from.
He is buried in a barrow large enough to fit several other creatures so I figure he was a person of some importance, an old king or chieftain of the ffolk or perhaps even older like and elf or leshay.

Next is how did he become a vampire like creature (I'm not making him a vampire because that is too generic, but he is a creature that feeds off the lifeforms of others to sustain himself). Perhaps he was turned by kazgoroth in one of the last wars and now sustains himself by feeding on the energy of others.
Perhaps the ffolk imprisoned him in the barrow (with the help of elves and druids etc).

I have always though that Alaron was the name of the ffolk chief that led that group of ffolk to that island, perhaps I can make him the vampire and he could have delusions of uniting the ffolk with himself as an eternal king

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2019 : 20:58:32

Noted the King Niall is the first of the Carrathal Dynasty of Callidyrr but is still a son of High King Tanner.

So to explain the change in name i've decided that Niall is a bastard son of King Tanner, and all other true born claimants to the throne are slain in the chaos that engulfs Callidyrr when the Sword Cymrych Hugh is lost.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2019 : 09:16:22

Moving on to a few of the customs of ffolk life.

Trying to think up of a name for the honour guard of the king. Ideally I'd like it to be possible to derive the name scarlet guard from it so I'm initially thinking of blood bond, but that could apply to anyone so I need a royal version where you have pledged your life to protect the king (and been accepted). Possibly derived from tribal roots where the clans best warriors would protect the clan elder.
These honour guards fell out of favour in callidyrr when high king tanker died (the surviving honour guard formed the heralds of the high king) but persist in other islands.

The scarlet guard derives from the ancient tradition of blood bonded warriors and it's name indicates elite warriors. I'm thinking that ogres are difficult to come by so I might look at non human mercenary groups like the Chill and see if the dates match up for their formation.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2019 : 15:30:55

Been thinking about cymrych hugh and the alliance of ffolk and elves and dwarves against kazgoroth in 201 DR.

A few decades earlier King Kaminas had sealed Synnoria so no human could find it (after chief Deric tried to romance his daughter).

So how did cymrych hugh establish an alliance with a nation he could not get to.

Given that Queen Allisynn was buried in an eleven tower, im wondering perhaps if she was not an elf. As far as I know they have no children together and she does in 201 so her racial origin is not super important but as an elf she could establish communication between the two peoples (and might explain why the elves buried her in a tower on a floating island).

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2019 : 17:42:31

Just because the kingdom couldn't be found by humans didn't mean the elves couldn't come and go, and/or that they couldn't maintain contact with the outside world.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2019 : 17:54:53

It is true, but I'm pretty sure the novels said synnoria was sealed to keep the humans away, so he wouldn't want his people leaving to go visit humans (and the elves like synnoria, the magic makes you not want to leave). I think kaminas was insulted by Deric and deliberately ended contact with the humans.
Cymrych Hugh also ruled from Callidyrr, which is a long way from synnoria and limits contact between the rulers.

Plus I don't think anything noted allisynns race so it might be nice to continue the theme of human and elf pairings that are doomed to fail

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2019 : 19:30:51

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

It is true, but I'm pretty sure the novels said synnoria was sealed to keep the humans away, so he wouldn't want his people leaving to go visit humans (and the elves like synnoria, the magic makes you not want to leave). I think kaminas was insulted by Deric and deliberately ended contact with the humans.
Cymrych Hugh also ruled from Callidyrr, which is a long way from synnoria and limits contact between the rulers.

Plus I don't think anything noted allisynns race so it might be nice to continue the theme of human and elf pairings that are doomed to fail

Evermeet was created as an elven homeland, away from the other races -- but there is nothing at all that keeps Evermeet's people from leaving and returning.

Just because you lock your front door, it doesn't mean you never intend to use it yourself.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2019 : 19:52:28

Again all true, I deliberately created the series of portals to allow the elves to visit other islands without having to use ships (which could easily be hijacked by north men raiders).

I think the llewyrr probably go wandering in all the woods of the moonshine isles (or they did), but elves are normally aloof and distant from humans and I reckon the llewyrr are similar.
The humans are not able to find the elves, therefore for an alliance to begin the elves would have to seek out the humans. King Kaminas is not going to establish an alliance based upon some meeting between an eleven scout and some random human, especially after he nearly lost his daughter to a human - his reaction shows his regard for the species).

So I'm looking for a reason for an important interaction between humans and elves and a marriage seems the most significant option, plus all the best stories involve a chance encounter between two potential partners a budding romance ensues amid the chaos and conflict but eventually they win the day and get married. That she does shortly after makes it all the more tragic.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2019 : 11:35:08

So Kazgoroth died in 201 DR. Then suddenly in 1346 DR he comes back, no explanation or hints as to how and why. Originally I had planned to ignore him coming back and rewrite events with kazgoroth in multiple guises born from his first death (skin, horn, and soul).

Now however I'm thinking I was wrong in excluding kazgoroth returning as the ravager.

We know that Brianne Moonsinger felt Kazgoroths return and she wandered into the Myrloch Vale and vanished. We know the Darkwell has been corrupted in some manner for a long time (possibly since Kazgoroths death by cymrych hugh).

I think Kazgoroth was originally slain in the Darkwell by Cymrych Hugh, and his body dissolved into the waters corrupting it permanently.
The Banshee Rider was reanimated after being chucked in the well (can't remember if I read that or made it up) so I have her animated by kazgoroths essence.

What if Brianne Moonsinger was thrown into the Darkwell and Kazgoroth used her power to bring himself back. However this version was weak, only a shadow of his former power, and so easily slain by Tristan and the munchkins of doom.

I can still have the other pieces of Kazgoroth working independently of the original. I have the horn, the skin, his soul (trapped in the cauldron of doom), his claw (from baldurs gate) and the heart left behind after the ravages death.

I think the claw will be relatively minor, creating a blood rider type creature out of those it injures. The heart maybe allows the holder to gain some of his powers.

I'm rather taken with the idea of kazgoroth becoming linked to the sword of cymrych hugh and it gaining the bane ability against him, rather than it being manufactured that way. Kazgoroth killing kaminas wife is one link, trying to corrupt the banshee rider (the queens sister) is another link, and then corrupting allisynn (who I might make greene's twin and thus daughter of kaminas wife) is the third link. That seals his fate and makes him vulnerable to the sword.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2019 : 21:01:37

Finished writing up my version of Kazgoroth, although i will likely change it again and again as i continue to evolve the Moonshae Isles.

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/home/npcs/island-kingdoms-npcs/kazgoroth/

jamesewelch
Learned Scribe

106 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2019 : 16:36:14

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Finished writing up my version of Kazgoroth, although i will likely change it again and again as i continue to evolve the Moonshae Isles.

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/home/npcs/island-kingdoms-npcs/kazgoroth/

Kazgoroth could also inflict lycanthropy on bite, charm people (5ft radius or something), and had some innate spell casting (see invisible and detect magic, I think). Just in case you wanted to beef up his stats a bit more :)

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2019 : 17:21:38

I'm moving away from the lycanthropy thing as it's too generic and I like unique monsters, but I'll add in the invisibility and charm person. Good call, ta.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2019 : 10:20:38

Anyone ever thought about the hierarchy and structure of a druid organisation before. At the moment all I have is a group made up of individual rings that look after and individual island.

I'm tempted to have an alternating hierarchy based upon phases of the moon or the months. So for instance during hammer the ring of Gwyneth would have authority (and thus the great druid of that ring could override decisions of the great druid of other rings), except for during the night of a full moon when their opposite ring (the ring of norheim which is now defunct) would have authority.

Makes it overly complex but it would be fluid and ever changing like the seasons and prevent one ring having complete dominance over all the others, and is a bit more mature like.

Any thoughts or examples of what people have done themselves.

Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2019 : 12:27:41

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I'm moving away from the lycanthropy thing as it's too generic and I like unique monsters, (...)

An option would be that the corrupting bite (which is canon) would generate different kinds of lycanthropes. Each individual would transform into a lycanthrope with an animal type which would reflect something of his or her nature... Kazgoroth would be able to see the potential beast in the heart of a possible victim.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2019 : 12:53:10

Well I've chosen to make every instance of lycanyhropy a unique event in the moonshae isles (Celtic mythology is not filled with hordes of werewolves, but there are singular instances with unique circumstances.

I decided that Erian was not cursed with lycanthropy by kazgoroth. Instead his exposure to the shape changing Kazgoroth awoke a latent pseudo lycanthropy infection that had lain dormant in his ancestry for centuries. Its detailed in a 3e pdf from wotc but I can't recall what the term is.

The end result is the same. Kazgoroth, if he attacks Erian in the playable version of the Darkwalker War (something I will work on later) then he forces Erian to change into a wolf, but that is more due to an inherited trait in Erian than anything Kazgoroth did.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2019 : 09:33:09

Thinking about regalia for the cornwell dynasties.

First is the regents crown which was originally callidyrr Hugh's crown. Provides bonus to charisma based checks. Ownership contested by the kings of callidyrr. Lost wit king durnhal. Possibly hidden in a cave or buried in western corwell or in the castle of skulls.

Spear of Gwyneth. Made from an oar of one of the ships from the first landing.

Amulet of the chiefs . A strange necklace belonging to Gwyneth. Possibly of eleven origin. Basically it's a compass that always points towards safety

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2019 : 13:49:48

Onto synnoria. So I'm thinking of making synnorias main defence (the misty illusion that hides it) as a near mythical called the Veil of Synnoria (located around the Vale of Synnoria).

I'm thinking the elves made it using the magic of the moon well to permanently power it. The premise is that if you have not been to synnoria before then you cannot find your way there (unless someone leads you). This means that kazgoroth can find it because he was there -2000 dr before the veil was created, but they never anticipated his return. Cymrych Hugh was shown the way by his wife allisynn, but everyone else will wander the mountain passes forever and never find their way in.

The magic of the moon well provides the soothing music that depresses the birth rate of Male children (who are more aggressive by nature). The Curse of Vyshaan lowers the birthrate of all llewyrr elves anyway (payment for them helping the illefarni elves escape).

Synnoria was once ruled by a laranlor (regal lord). When that line died out it became a stewardship under laransuor (blessed lord) ridinlahr. When he died childless the a council of priests took over, but with such a low population and isolation from other elves all the seafaring churches merged into a single church with serene matriarch ate'niah as its head of church and state.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2019 : 21:52:23

Looking for an alternate origin for trolls and goblins on the moonshae isles. I've gone with a corruption theme for kazgoroth and he created the moonshae version of fomorians by corrupting firbolg, so perhaps I could do the same for goblins and trolls.

Goblins seem like an obvious link to halflings (based on size). Trolls are a little more difficult as the firbolgs are the only major giant race on the islands and i already used them for fomorians. I have gone with a spurious ancient link between dwarves and giants so I could make the moonshae trolls a bit shorter and more hairy and make them corrupted dwarves (which would explain their concentration on islands with a dwarves presence).

Sea trolls present a problem though

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6643 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 : 05:14:40

How about: they were always there?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 : 07:30:33

It's a possibility, but then that makes them just generic trolls and goblins, and I much prefer unique variants because the moonshae are so isolated from everywhere else that it makes it difficult for other races to get to.
The elves, dwarves, humans, firbolg, and presumably halflings as well all had to travel there by boat (or in the case of dwarves by under dark tunnel). I don't see trolls and goblins as being accomplished boat builders, and the portal thing I've already used for orcs (which are my one generic race on the moonshae but they are a recent arrival that fits in with the mainland overwhelming the culture of the islands).

I suppose one could be a manifestation of the islands themselves, the pain of the earth mother causes these nightmarish goblins to appear out of the ground (or trolls).

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 : 11:35:54

Thinking more I'm not sure the trolls and goblins could have always been there. The moonshae isles aas devoid of humanoid life except for the leshay (and they are very lords of a sort) so trolls and goblins would have bred in vast numbers (as they do without anything to reduce their population) and scoured the island chain clean of life.

The elves didn't arrive until -10000 dr so that leaves a long time for trolls and goblins to turn the islands into a barren wasteland.

Now dwarves are prone to transformation from outside sources. The urdunnir and duergar both transformed from dwarves over a prolonged period of time (urdunnir is supposedly a divine transformation but i don't do that so it is magic or magic radiation based for me).

Now trolls are present in alaron, Gwyneth, and moray where the dwarves populations are, so there is a weak link. Perhaps when dwarvenhome fell, the dwarves trapped underground were transformed into these troll like creatures (strong, feral, regenerate, ugly). I have a duergar invasion destroying dwarvenhome so it could even be a mix of dwarf and duergar trolls.

The goblins I think I will link to halflings. Halflings are an early arriver to the moonshae. Kazgoroth warps humans into blood riders, he warps firbolg into fkmorean, elves are too pure to warp, and dwarves are resistant to magic so also don't change, but halflings likely took part in the first war with kazgoroth so there would be a few transformed versions running around - little, feral, vicious, bloodthirsty monsters. They can be concentrated on alaron, Gwyneth, and the kirin archipelago where halflings are present.

I also decided the northmen arrived in the moonshae long before the ffolk, around the time of kazgoroths war, but were nearly wiped out and forced to move on, which is why the islands were avoided for so long after even though other islands were settled by them way before 0 dr.

Demzer
Senior Scribe

873 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 : 12:28:24

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

... (or in the case of dwarves by under dark tunnel) ...

This can work for goblins and trolls too. At any point one or a few groups/tribes as small or as big as you need might have started to wander under the seabed because they were pushed by other more vicious Underdark horrors or simply because of overpopulation or maybe they were escaped slaves or whatever.

The Leshays would have definitely exterminated any such pest that posed a problem for their enviroment (and so would do the elves) so I wouldn't worry about them taking over the islands.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 : 14:56:16

It's certainly possible for all the monsters of the moonshae to arrive via one means or another. However the feel of the moonshae is distinctly Celtic and that is all about individuality, unique monsters, special heroes, and fantastic places. Out of the box goblins and trolls is not quite so interesting as a breed of goblin or troll that is unique to the moonshae with it's own history and abilities.

Plus i use the one monster many origins model to keep things diverse.

As for the leshay, it may be my interpretation if Fey creatures but I always think of them as a collection of individuals rather than a nation. They sometimes work together under dire circumstances but otherwise go their own mysterious way. I definitely don't think they would exterminate anything (being a bit Gandalf like for unintended consequences) and I'm not sure they have or ever had the numbers necessary to deal with goblin or troll infestations.

Demzer
Senior Scribe

873 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 : 15:35:19

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

It's certainly possible for all the monsters of the moonshae to arrive via one means or another. However the feel of the moonshae is distinctly Celtic and that is all about individuality, unique monsters, special heroes, and fantastic places. Out of the box goblins and trolls is not quite so interesting as a breed of goblin or troll that is unique to the moonshae with it's own history and abilities.

Plus i use the one monster many origins model to keep things diverse.

And this is commendable but everything everywhere having it's own origin kills immersion at some point. I can understand the concept for different Prime Material Planes, differents universes and different Planes and even very very distant places. But ultimately the Moonshaes are not that isolated, their climate is not very special, the "good" demihuman races got there with ships or through the Underdark or portals and I don't see many problems with the "evil" demihuman races doing the same.

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

As for the leshay, it may be my interpretation if Fey creatures but I always think of them as a collection of individuals rather than a nation. They sometimes work together under dire circumstances but otherwise go their own mysterious way. I definitely don't think they would exterminate anything (being a bit Gandalf like for unintended consequences) and I'm not sure they have or ever had the numbers necessary to deal with goblin or troll infestations.

A single leshay (as we know it from game mechanics/canonical tales) can wipe out entire nations of goblins and trolls.
I'm not talking of going on a genocidal spree just because, I'm saying that if the pests (trolls/goblins) got out of control on their own (for example, outbreeding their surrounding) then the leshays would take a split second to annihilate any excess that was threatening the balance of the ecosystem they were living in.
The elves later would do the same, with several order of magnitudes less overpowering force but anyway probably much more than what any troll/goblin tribe could muster in the limited confines of the Moonshaes.

The orc hordes of the North and the goblinoids hordes of the south and the heartlands are much more dangerous because they live in enviroments that can sustain much much bigger populations, so when overpopulation occurs the numbers are already out of scale with respect to the "civilised nations" of man- elf- and dwarvenkind. The Moonshae cannot suffer a similar issue.

Edited by - Demzer on 10 May 2019 15:35:58

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2019 : 19:26:16

Very true about immersion. Thus far my one monster many origins model has only applied to the rarer creatures which have a low population density. It doesn't work for common creatures, which is why I left the humanoid (elf, dwarf, human etc) as they are, but the origin always begins on Toril.

I suppose goblins are crafty enough and widespread enough to make their way anywhere (like orcs). Trolls are less widespread but they do have proximity on their side with the troll mountains in the western heartlands being near where the dwarves gain entry to the moonshae underdark.

I might come up with a twisted halfling monster corrupted by kazgoroth that is one of the evil Fey creatures on the islands.

I shall have to remember to limit kne monster many origins to rare or unique creatures only, or where isolation or unique circumstances warrant it.

Keseril
Acolyte

Russia
5 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2019 : 10:34:58

Hello! First of all, Gary Dallison, you did freaking great job! Moonshae is my favorite region for now and you played a big part in this.

Want to ask you. You said that you using original story but adding something from you own. All information here about locations and other stuffs is just yours implementation of things? Or is canon?

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6351 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2019 : 16:54:07

Hi Kesseril, thank you for the very kind words, the moonshae are far from finished and I mostly do this for myself but it's always nice to hear that others get some mileage from it. So if you have any questions or anything you'd like to know more about or even any ideas yourself then just say so (especially spelling or grammar mistakes as my English is terrible - like most English people).

Now onto your question. My general approach is to take canon and twist it so that it is still the same but slightly different to commonly held opinions (little point in writing everything the same as has already been written), but I also like to expand the grey areas and what is written between the lines as much as I possibly can.

So almost everything I do is based, or distantly based (for things i have expanded on and then expanded my expansions) in canon lore. I try not to create things totally new unless there is a massive gap in the lore with nothing to fill it.

So norland is pretty empty, I've been forced to add locations to make it usable. There is no mention of orcs so I haven't added and orc nation there. There are however firbolgs on the island and some frost giants so I've added in ruins from a firbolg giant empire that is alluded to in the history of the region.

In moray there are orcs but no historic mention of them so I added in a portal from the orcgates affair of the red wizards that dumped them there. The 4e lore has lycanthropes overrunning the region so I've linked moray to a place in the feywild where an ancient Grimm creature (that I made up to explain the lycanthropy in the moonshae- not wanting to use a run of the mill werewolf) that has become trapped in the feywild. Moray also has no castle but three watchtower, so I added those watchtower into every ffolk settlement and then decided why moray had no castle despite a history of repeated raids by northmen. In the end I figured the northmen burned down the castle so much they stopped repairing it, so now i have a ruined castle and a place for treasure to be lost.

In some cases I have made stuff up, like the grimmulf and the heralds of the high king, all based on what I consider good ideas from people here, and to expand blanks in the lore or explain things the lore does not.

But generally it is all based from some stray bit of lore that I have twisted to make it slightly different (I'm rather proud of making the earth mother be an enemy of the druids who think they serve her - and in the adventure I plan to do, when the druids call on the children for help, the whole humanoid population is in danger as these super powers try to eradicate all humanoid life).

I'm more than happy to talk moonshae all day if you are running a campaign and need some inspiration, or you just like talking moonshae isles. However I have departed considerably from my first version in the alternate dimensions pdf I made and now work solely on the wordpress site (which is constantly work in progress.

Thanks again for looking at it and taking the time to say hi.

Gary

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