Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Realmslore
 Sages of Realmslore
 Clan Hune, Illythiir, Illehune, Gargauth
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2014 :  09:08:39  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I doubt Gargauth would be involved in it at all really, it would just be Zahyra (assuming she were an evil devotee of Gargauth) who wants to be incredibly evil.

Everyone thinks she is a nice person so wouldnt be expecting a trap, then unleash everything you have and see if you can remove a few chosen and possibly kill off King Haedrak and Queen Zaranda.

It is a pretty weak idea and i cant imagine why she would hold a grudge against the chosen of Mystra, but i do wonder what the "work of noble Darrom and beloved Silvam" refers to. What were their goals other than creating and securing Tethyr.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2014 :  16:04:11  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well i have poured over all the sources again and apart from a little nugget about the Legacy of Astaroth in which a demon named Astaroth appeared at a dwarven city and turned all the metals into gold before it was destroyed by an army of giants (the dwarves couldnt fight back because all their weapons had been turned to gold.

Now that could have actually been Astaroth, but it was more likely to have been Gargauth masquerading as Astaroth since Gargauth was the treasurer of hell for a time and could turn any metal into gold at a touch.


Also read the Wells of Darkness adventure and the similarities between Gargauths imprisonment and the imprisonment of Astaroth is striking, but since only four beings have ever escaped from the Wells of Darkness (and none of them were Gargauth) then Gargauth's imprisonment cant have been in that planar tear.



I'm a bit stuck. I dont know who created the Shield of the Hidden Lord or why. I dont know who imprisoned Gargauth, how, or why. So basically im still stuck at the start, but a bit more of the middle has been filled.

Maybe if i go ask Ed i wont get an NDA.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Demzer
Senior Scribe

543 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2014 :  16:31:22  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The "work of noble Darrom and beloved Silvam" may be the establishment of long lasting friendship with the elves of Waeldath. Before the Ithal dynasty the elves and the clansmen cooperated only to the extent of getting the Calishite off their back and by the time Zahyra died the ruling times of Darrom and Silvam had seen a great friendship built between humans and elves (with marriages and alliances).
Zahyra may have predicted/foreseen the troubling relationship between elves and humans in Tethyr in the following years and that only working together elves and humans could overcome all obstacles and make Tethyr reach its full potential. Her prophecy speaks of Zaranda and Haedrak with little doubt, it's the involvement of Mystra's Chosens that's mysterious.
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2014 :  16:33:24  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its pretty far fetched but what if Gargauth and Zahyra were involved together in creating the two shields (although perhaps Zahyra did not know her mentor was Gargauth), for the express purpose of creating the Knights of the Shield spy network.

Gargauth after all loves power brokers and an information network is key to this.

Zahyra's corruption could have been gradual, at first insinuating herself as the kings lover to gain power (under her mentors advice), then creating the shields to protect the king while killing off certain people to keep herself in power.

One of her ideas is the creation of the spy network (after all it doesnt seem likely that a king of barbarian clans would think of creating a spy network to monitor enemies - barbarians tend to just think in terms of killing enemies).

The Shield of Silvam is the symbol of the network but Gargauth has plans afoot to have the shield replaced (i.e. have it stolen, which does happen).

Unfortunately for Gargauth he gets himself imprisoned, (possibly by Hilather, but perhaps it is one of the demonshields used near a planar tear on Gargauth and the whole thing goes horribly wrong), and so cannot enact his plan for the knighthood and even worse the Shoon then sets about disbanding the Knights of the Shield.

By the time Gargauth escapes his imprisonment the order is nearly gone.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Demzer
Senior Scribe

543 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2014 :  20:28:17  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

By the time Gargauth escapes his imprisonment the order is nearly gone.



On this point i'm not sure. The Shield of the Hidden Lord was found in 889 DR and from that point onward the Knights of the Shield just growed and growed in influence and power, while Gargauth was released only in 1018 DR.

I think that like all super-powerful extraplanar begins that are just a step below godhood, Gargauth could still project an image, comunicate and act through items specifically linked to him. The Shield was just this sort of item and Gargauth lurked in wait until Tithklar Illehhune was near enough for the baatezu to use their blood connection to compel the adventurer into unhearting the Shield. Then things probably went as you theorized regarding Algashon.

I tried to get some clues on two things and i report here the little i have found.

1) Zahyra's mentor: this mysterious figure is responsible for a lot of things, he started a chain reaction that had important and long-lasting influences in the Southern Sword Coast development. I've tried to nail down his/her identity by escluding who couldn't be there at the time (around -170 DR):
- Azuth is out, the first magister about which we have informations is Shornthal Imynster who reigned between 136 and 148 DR, we don't know for sure if he's the 2nd Magister but since all the Magisters except Azuth seem covered and Azuth is the only one with some reason to have an unknown past, it's not a stretch to think that Shornthal was the 2nd and that Mystra 1.0 didn't wait long after Azuth's ascension before naming another Magister. So Azuth would be a couple of centuries too late to be Zahyra's mentor and besides, from what we know of him, he doesn't seem to have been the kind of archmage to set up shop amidst barbarians just to teach magic to some random girl (he was a powerhungry energetic genius of spellcasting);
- Hilather is out, still in stasis (he awakened in 128 DR);
- a random elven High Mage is out, there were none in Tethyr and the nearest one was the baelnorn inside the Calimemnon Crystal, besides, Zahyra was a human and i don't think any elven mage of the time would teach a human of that land magic;
- the Runemasters of the Twisted Rune are out, even Rysellan the Dark, the first and founder Runemaster, they're all wizards of the Shoon era or more recent times (from 600 to 300 years prior to 1370 DR);
- all modern human Chosens of Mystra that i know of are out because weren't even born yet;
I know the following it's just a shot in the dark, but either we bring into play some long forgotten wielder of Art (a Netherese Arcanist, another unknown Imaskari Artificer, a random Sarrukh) or we drag Larloch out of his crypt and say that this was one of his attempts at steering civilization one way or another (we know he did something like this in his long career). I say these for two reasons: his involvement in essence created a long line of archmages still alive to this day (Shoon VII, even the Twisted Rune, since all members studied magic in the Shoon era) and prevented human realms from being swept away by otherwordly aberrations like the beholders, both are things that i can see Larloch doing. Also there is this story in Empire of the Shining Sea (page 21) that says that one of the petty eye tyrant terrorizing Calimshan at the time was killed by the animated statue of a petrified soldier whose eyes shined green, like the eyes of Larloch's liches when he's "riding" them. No one ever took credit for the death of the beholder, it just happened this way.

2) Gargauth's ascension: putting together information from various sources we know that:
- Gargauth was granting spells around 1070 DR;
- Gargauth was freed in 1018 DR;
- Gargauth was still a "wild baatezu" and confronted Elminster and Khelben (and fled) at the battle of the Sign of the Silver Harp between 1022 DR (refounding of the Harpers) and 1065 DR (the Harpers kill the dracolich Alglaudyx);
- we know the battle at the Sign was a good chunk of time after the refounding of the Harpers (they had time to evolve from a wandering adventuring band to the Harpers adventuring band to the Harpers organization and voice of their activities and "base" at the Sign had to circle around a bit before the Banites decided to show up) and we know that the Harpers killed that dracolich only "Shortly (there)after ..." the battle at the Sign;
So Gargauth ascended in the middles 1000s, probably before 1060 and 1070 DR. That's a hell of a short time to gather enough energy/worshipers to ascend given that Gargauth was imprisoned until 1018, couldn't grant spells and his involvement with the Knights was a well kept secret (it still is today). So i think that he used his unique ability of absorption of power from slayed fiends to ascend, probably after his cowardly retreat against Elminster and Khelben. This means he needed to beat either some powerful fiends or a lot of common fiends. I doubt in his weakened state he would dare go to the Abyss or the Nine Hells to battle powerful fiends and we don't know of other powerful demon or devil lords that "graced" Faerun with their presence and disappeared after 1018 DR. On the other hand Faerun isn't exactly overloaded with common fiends except in some particular case: Narfell was long past, Thay was stable and had stopped using fiendish armies to gain indipendence before the turning of the millennium, Impiltur was largely cleaned up by the end of "the Scouring" in 851 DR. The only place with a lot of fiends was Hellgate Keep, there Gargauth could assassinate fiends to his heart content while disguised as a tanar'ri and avoiding detection from the world outside.

So, that's two cannonballs in the dark from me, your turn.
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5001 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2014 :  03:33:04  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Scions of Astaroth and Narathmault.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 24 Jul 2014 03:33:33
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2014 :  08:50:23  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well Demzer, your theory of the date of his ascension actually ties in nicely to my theory that Gargauth had infiltrated the church of Bane (through Algashon) and bizarrely with George's little prod to do with the Scions of Astaroth that are mentioned in Cloak and Dagger right next to a bit about the Church of Xvim who are dedicated to stemming the rise of Gargauth's cult.

Thanks to THO there is the possibility that Algashon was a member of the Knights of the Shield as well as being a leading figure in the Cult of the Dragon, and at the same time he was very much favoured by Bane and possibly a precursor to a Chosen.

If Algashon did hold the Shield of the Hidden Lord in any way then it is almost certain that he would begin to hear the whispers of Gargauth. Therefore it is also possible that Gargauth's cult began to grow within the Church of Bane.

Bane's church at the time was all about placing and supporting tyrants, being the power behind the throne, rather than modern Bane/Xvim which is all about being the tyrant. Gargauth loves politics and power brokers and intrigue and corruption so his worship ties in nicely with Bane's, however Bane doesnt share power and so he wouldnt be happy about Gargauth nicking his worshippers.

In 1065 DR, Gargauth was indeed a wild baatezu and was working with Bane's Church to attack the Harper Inn.

We also know that in 1076 DR High Imperceptor Strife came to power and set about uniting the fractious elements of Bane's church. That could also include purging the church of traitors and heretics. Strife dies in 1141 DR. Powers and Pantheons states that the Churches of the Dark Gods Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul and i think either Talona or Loviatar succeed in preventing Gargauth from becoming a lesser power so i reckon that particular event where they go on a purge of Gargauth worshippers is his point of ascension, somewhere between 1076 and 1141 DR.


Now onto Zahyra's mentor, i had ruled out many of the beings you mentioned as well but hadnt considered Larloch, mostly because i dont attribute him to actually doing anything other than researching magic (which i know is incorrect, but its difficult to break habits). If Larloch is indeed involved in manipulating nations then he does make a good candidate but i still favour Gargauth.

The Legacy of Astaroth story shows if anything that Gargauth is the perfect manipulator and ultimate devil. He is a born seducer and corruptor, giving a person their heart's desire, no matter how good that desire may be and asking for small trifling things in return (like a small enchanted shield), in the end however he twists those good acts upon themselves so that it destroys the person he is bargaining with.

So in the case of the dwarves he gave them gold, all the gold they could ever want, and then watched them die unable to defend themselves against the hordes of of evil humanoids that also want gold.


I no longer think Zahyra was evil, i think she was just a pawn used by Gargauth. She wanted Silvam more than anything else and a unity between men and elves (love is a powerful motivator). Gargauth made sure that happened slowly over the years. In return he helped her save Silvam many times by tutoring her in powerful magic, helping her craft the two artefacts so that she could always keep an eye on him, creating the Knights of the Shield to help defend Silvam and Tethyr. In return all he wanted was a very small magical shield for himself.

In the end however he knew the alliance and king Silvam would perish and Zahyra would be left alone and broken. The cultural differences between men and elves reared their ugly head when the wife of Clan Ithal's chieftain perished and the elves demanded the life of her protector.

Silvam had to agree to save his kingdom and this cost him his life when one of the nobles decided Silvam was no longer fit to be king.

It wouldnt surprise if Gargauth had planted the snake in the grass that killed the chieftains wife (one of his manifestations is a carpet of serpents).

He is very very dangerous but you would never know it to look at him. Im pretty sure in Ed's campaign he has a position of prominence as super evil behind the scenes bad guy.

Gargauth may even have had a hand in manipulating Vizera Rhynda to accept Akkabel as a pupil and the subsequent marriage alliance. After all why wouldnt you listen to the mentor of your mentor when he pops back in to town and suggests a solution to your greatest conundrum.



And finally on to George and his little poke. I had just got to the page with the Scion's of Astaroth yesterday and it did stoke a few thoughts in my mind. Firstly why did they appear where they did, which was described as "the lands once owned by Narfell" (that means anywhere from the Wizard's Reach to northern Impiltur), one possible explanation is that is where Astaroth used to frequent or where he was last alive.

So as George pointed out Narathmault is within the lands once owned by Narfell and is a site used to bind powerful outsiders. Gargauth we now know has a connection to the Illythiiri and Wendonai, and has extensively explored Toril so it is possible he knew of Narathmault's existence and it's purpose.

Then comes the greatest conundrum. How exactly did Gargauth kill Astaroth. Astaroth was a demon lord, Gargauth is an ex lord of the nine. Why would Astaroth be present on the material plane where Gargauth frequents when he could just stay on his abyssal plane with his infinite number of minions.

Demon Lords arriving on the Material Plane in person is a highly unusual event (or at least it should be), i certainly cant imagine them doing it voluntarily. I think both demons and devils (lords anyway) can teleport around at will to wherever they want so any combat between the two is going to be impossible unless they both want to fight each other.

Unless of course you bind your victim in place so he cannot escape and then rip him to shreds. I doubt Gargauth used the adamantine binding like was used on Eltab, merely a form of binding that forced Astaroth into the binding circle in person and prevented his escape for a time. During that time Gargauth killed him and took his power. And all this probably occured in Narathmault itself many millennia ago (after the crown wars). Gargauth was after all the treasurer of Hell, is very friendly with Asmodeus and therefore is one of the few beings in existence to know one of the true names of Astaroth necessary to bind him

The Scions of Astaroth trace Astaroth's last known location back to Toril and Narathmault and there discover it was Gargauth that killed their lord (or they could have gone to the 79th layer of the Abyss and the Wells of Darkness and asked him themselves).


Anyway thats my two/three cents on current thoughts.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5001 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  02:53:38  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to go back and read through bits of "Lady of Poison". It has a few threads that might be of use for this discussion.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2014 :  09:14:06  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well while George is off investigating novels that i dont have, there are a few possible inconsistencies with Gargauth that may bear mentioning.

First is the mention of Gargauth's unique power. I had a check in an old dragon magazine with a writeup of Gargoth (written by Ed Greenwood i believe) and it mentions Gargoth's unique power is to plane shift, and that he may not be a baatezu (yugoloth perhaps).

Then in powers and pantheons Gargauth has the ability to absorb the powers of any baatezu he kills. Yet the most famous mention of his use of this power is on a demon lord named Astaroth (i guess the power works on all outsiders then).

And finally is the matter of Peleveran and Gargauth's temples.

All of Gargauth's temples are built atop a very deep pits. Peleveran was built atop an incredibly deep pit with Gargauth imprisoned beneath it. Later it mentions the Dark Pit of Maleficence (the temple to Gargauth) is built in the ruins of Peleveran 50 years after its destruction atop a deep pit which is rumoured to hold a portal to Baator at the bottom.

So either Gargauth's clergy placed the portal to Baator in the bottom of the pit when they were building the temple, or the portal/rift was always there and Gargauth was imprisoned within it somehow.

The only problem with this is that Gargauth is exiled from Baator and if he ever returns he will be destroyed.

So i'm wondering if Peleveran was not the site of one of Gargauth's cult temples (before he became a god of course but you can still have a cult before you are a god). I imagine Gargauth quite liked the rift with Baator at the bottom of the pit and so chose this place to establish a cult/temple deliberately (makes it feel more like home).

Along comes some do-gooder with a Demonshield of Hilather and tries to use it to entrap Gargauth. The magic of the shield interacts with the rift to Baator and accidentally imprisons Gargauth inside the pit instead of inside the shield.

I reckon Hilather's research in Torsil using the rift to the Abyss (and possibly the 79th layer of the Abyss with the Wells of Darkness) at the bottom of his tower, used binding magics to transport outsiders inside an extra dimensional prison which it created inside the shield and then sealed it shut preventing escape (unless some idiot breaks the shield).

When the shield was used on Gargauth it instead created an extradimensional prison inside the pit and sealed him inside. Gargauth then needed a mage who was more powerful than Hilather shortly after his release from stasis and who had access to ancient magic courtesy of the cult of the dragon (and Gargauth through the Knights of the Shield).

Of course following that train of thought puts Gargauth's imprisonment in the Shoon era with rampant fiend summoning and the demonshields sent throughout the Shoon Empire to deal with them.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5001 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2014 :  05:56:18  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Well while George is off investigating novels that i dont have, there are a few possible inconsistencies with Gargauth that may bear mentioning.



Bruce Cordell was doing just fine with "Lady of Poison", providing a decent dollop of useful realmslore along the way of some above average prose, until we get to p.221. That's when he drops the "I'm the author with the kewl idea" bomb by stating:

"Hold on; why devils?" asked Marrec. "Aren't the Nar known for the demons they kept in thrall?"
Ususi replied, "Demons, devils, 'loths ... the Nar were not picky in those creatures they pressed into service. We say demons, but the Nar embraced a much wider swath of foulness."

At the time and now, I say "Dear Bruce, wtf?".

Anywho, this reference is "canon" realmslore (it really is amazing how much fiction realmslore I've had to contort and explain away in FR work over more than a decade. If the FR line needs anything, it is a manager in the fiction dept. to rein in some of this author exuberance, but I digress ...) and so has always needed an explanation.

I don't agree with Bruce's line re the Nar summoning everyone and everything. But, respectful of what has come before as I am, I came up with an explanation in my head after reading that book.

The explanation was that Narfell did indeed embrace the gamut of evil extra planar summoning during the Crell Dynasty. With the assumption of power of the Orgolaths in -633 DR however, demon worship and summoning became the standard, and the devil and 'loth cults (who had always been in the minority) were hunted down, exterminated, fled or went underground.

To return to Dazzlerdal's musings re Gargauth and the Ilythiiri, I comment that there were a couple of reasons I had for creating Narathmault. Firstly, it explained why Dun Tharos was such a "bad" place; secondly it explained where the drow of Undrek 'Thoz came from; and thirdly, it provided the kicker for making the Narfelli the baddies that we know they came to be.

Dazzlerdal's stuff on Gargauth makes me think that at one time, prior to -633 DR, Narfell was a microcosm for the Blood War with factions of all the parties to that ongoing tussle represented and in conflict. Astaroth, in his unique role as deep cover agent for the Abyss, may have manipulated and used Narfelli humans as information conduits (how else did he get intelligence from the Hells to the Abyss ....?).

Gargauth, in his apparent role of Asmodeus' assassin, was tasked with tracking down Astaroth after he was unmasked as an Abyssal lord and fled the Hells. Perhaps Astaroth was building a power base in Narfell and gaining divine power through human worship there (and from creatures on different worlds simultaneously). Perhaps, Gargauth learnt of this and manipulated a cabal of Narfelli demonbinders to summon Astaroth to the Prime where Gargauth was waiting for him and slew him, taking his guise and fooling Astaroth's unwitting mortal worshippers.

Gargauth was then one (of the many) 'hidden hands of power' that held sway in Narfell until its fall. This would have likely been in the guise of Astaroth and he would have fed on the Narfelli worship to boost the vestige of divinity wrested from that demon.

To bring it a little bit full circle, in the waning days of the Great Conflagration "Astaroth" commanded his worshippers and cabal to flee the realm. They travel to Ashanath and the ruins of Shandaular discovering the portal that had been located there since time immemorial. Giving them the secret to unlock it (well, he had been there when the Ilythiiri unlocked it to travel to Narathmault centuries before, after all, but I digress again ...), this group came through to the Council Hills and then wander the eastern Shaar, settling for long and short periods in various locations at the whim of Gargauth who continues to control them. It is this group who centuries later form the realm of Peleveran at the site of Gargauth's imprisonment.

Dazzlerdal's use of the demonshields of Hilather doesn't work because each of those shields had a demon bound into them on construction. But what if Hilather created a one-off demonshield as a template which he left blank - i.e. had no demon bound within it. This shield would have been left behind by Hilather (he had no use for them - he built them for Amahl Shoon IV in exchange for magical lore on wards and wizardly mythals) and likely found many years later by adventurers who sold it on (it had a magical aura but no discernible powers). Over the years that shield came into the hands of the Banite priest Brantal "the Grimscourge" Krimmar who encountered Gargauth in one of his many guises, was corrupted and ultimately came to serve The Lord Who Watches. Gargauth took Brantal's shield and shaped its raw magic into the Shield of the Hidden Lord as it is known today. The use of materials unique to the Hells in its creation saw it admirably suited to accept Gargauth's magic in this fashion.

Brantal wandered the Heartlands and lands of Amn and Tethyr, surreptitiously spreading the gospel of Gargauth and corrupting those he encountered, forming a number of worshiper cells and sympathisers throughout the region. When he fell in the Year of the Deceptive Tongue (831 DR) he was laid to rest in a secret tomb in the Fields of the Dead by his followers, and the Shield of the Hidden Lord was laid to rest with him.

The only piece of the puzzle that is missing is how Gargauth came to be trapped in the Pelevaran pit after 1022 DR. Who did it and how/why, I'll leave to wiser heads than mine.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2014 :  21:55:27  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am at a real quandary here. I consider all GK lore to be canon and have never ignored it, yet I love the idea of Gargauth tempting Zahyra Ithal so much that I may have to just this once. Or perhaps there is a way I can reconcile both.

I never picked up on the fact that the demonshields all came with a demon included, I always assumed they were used by the wielders to bind demons (they certainly would have been more useful that way). However I see now from reading Kuraltaar that I was wrong and they were indeed all demonbound on creation.

The idea of a blank demonshield is brilliant. Something left in his abandoned tower in Torsil. Something he abandoned because it didn't work initially, was somewhat flawed perhaps. Maybe it was the first shield and didn't work because it was the wrong shape and metal (the hidden shield is round and made of mithril - the demonshields are diamond shaped and made of an alloy of Baatorian ores).

And I think there may be a reason why Zahyra is part of the conditions of destruction for the Hidden Shield. Calishite sorcerers had been working on binding magics for centuries (according to the Kuraltaar writeup). Zahyra suddenly appears from nowhere in Tethyr in its early years as a very powerful sorceress. The chances are Zahyra was from Calimshan (escaped slave perhaps). Perhaps her researches into binding magics are something Hilather built upon in designing his Demonshields (maybe Zahyra even tried a binding process on a mithril round shield that Hilather later found and both used but couldn't get to work properly and so discarded). The fiend binding magics they used on this shield made it very easy for Gargauth to possess (Soneillon did it with a ship so why cant Gargauth do it with a shield) and after prolonged periods of possession the shield became an extension of himself.



The Narfelli bloodwar is pure genius by the way George and that definitely goes into my Narfell. I love that Astaroth is active in ancient Narfell and Gargauth kills him, drains him, and even takes his place.




I guess we will have to wait until Ed decides to tell us how/when/who Gargauth gets trapped in that pit. I'm happy to have a decent story of creation for the shield of the hidden lord though.

Maybe when I get round to looking at the Shaar (although there isn't much to look at) I will find some clues on Peleveran.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site

Edited by - dazzlerdal on 26 Jul 2014 21:58:56
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5001 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2014 :  02:27:38  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think you are right Dazzlerdal; Zahyra should have a role in here somewhere. Perhaps she is the initial creator of the shield and it was a prototype for the Shield of Silvam. It could have sat in the Tethyrian royal vaults (brought out only for battles where it was entrusted to whatever war leader was leading the clans/armies of Tethyr in the king's absence) and then passed to the Shoon with their usurping of power in Tethyr. The Qysar Shoon III loaned it to Hilather as a template after a tour of the Shoonite treasure chambers (the outer ones where the average stuff was kept) and his pledge to bring the Qysar thirteen shields in exchange for the lore he sought. When he delivered on his promise 4 years later, he didn't bother to return the shield given to him and the new Qysar had no knowledge that he had the Snarling Shield of Aziz in his possession.

The rest can then follow. I don't like the idea of the Vizera being evil or corrupted. If she has the power to destroy the Shield of the Hidden Lord, that should be because she is one of the good guys in my book.

Oh and nothing I write or say is "canon" for the Realms. Feel free to use/ignore/modify my musings at your leisure. Your ideas are as good as mine every day of the week. Cheers.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 27 Jul 2014 02:33:12
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2014 :  08:33:51  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well it might not be canon for the realms but i always treat it as such

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6679 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2014 :  12:06:02  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, what this would hint at would be that the "Snarling Shield of Aziz" was maybe originally made to contain a certain type of genie (for instance an efreeti)? Maybe it was even created to hold a powerful Sultan or Pasha of the Efreeti and left empty as a threat. If it was switched from the LE fiery efreeti to the LE (also somewhat fiery) baatezu by Hilather, I could buy that. Another option could be that Hilather actually freed the efreeti lord who was bound in the shield, and as a result earned his gratitude. Maybe this efreeti lord works with Hilather/Halaster still? I wonder if this efreeti lord (if he exists) was involved in the salamander war in Thay?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2014 :  20:39:00  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well short of THO turning up and dropping a bombshell on us about Gargauth's imprisonment I cant find anything more from the info we have.

Looks like I will have to move onto the next section of Cloak and Dagger - The Kraken Society.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5001 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2014 :  01:10:13  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not many holes in that one. I recall we stitched up the Kraken Society fairly tightly once Eric brainstormed the hook with the illithids.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2014 :  09:17:06  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well i'm not looking for holes, just new light on previous lore given the developments we have had in 3rd edition.

And the first things that strike me are the description of Slarkrethel's origins, and Ascarle's origin.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Tigon
Seeker

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  12:38:17  Show Profile Send Tigon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ARISE!

*cheeky grin*

Interesting how quick the cast time is on a "Resurrect Thread" spell, though the components required to do so properly takes some effort.

That said, I do have a thing or two to contribute here.

Let me preface this here that I'm no expert, and that I have been absent from the realms for around 20 years (pursuit of professional career, musical side-career, relationships etc.) and have recently returned. I was vaguely introduced to Gargauth's story arc, attempting to steal Faerun and make it the 10th level of Baator in an online role playing chat... and it stuck with me all of these 20 years. In that time ive periodically had my interest fanned a bit and have learned bits and pieces about the Blood War, but more details on Gargauth had always elluded me until this past week when I have been deeply active in research as I finally have the time, motivation, and resources to run a campaign and have always wanted to pursue this arc.

That said, if i'm waaay off base here, please correct me i'm just here putting pieces of this ancient mystery together.

quote:

Originally posted by George Krashos
Gargauth, in his apparent role of Asmodeus' assassin, was tasked with tracking down Astaroth after he was unmasked as an Abyssal lord and fled the Hells. Perhaps Astaroth was building a power base in Narfell and gaining divine power through human worship there (and from creatures on different worlds simultaneously). Perhaps, Gargauth learnt of this and manipulated a cabal of Narfelli demonbinders to summon Astaroth to the Prime where Gargauth was waiting for him and slew him, taking his guise and fooling Astaroth's unwitting mortal worshippers.



P&P states that his secret power is that Gargauth "can fully absorb the power of any baatezu he utterly destroys while in the Realms. Hence if Gargauth slays a baatezu who has been summoned to the realms, he gains no benefit, but if the fiend is physically present on the plane (perhaps having entered via a magical gate), he can absorb its power."

This leads me to believe that Astaroth must have willfully been actually present on the Material Plane as Gargauth would not have been able to absorb his power if he was summoned there.

quote:

Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Anyway, that's my new thinking of what happened. I always wondered why the Cult of the Dragon suddenly decided to expand to Peleveran which is miles away from anywhere.



Again, this is fairly easily explained from what i can decypher.

So its already been mentioned that:

quote:

Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Under Garguath's whisperings, Algashon was influenced to turn the attention of the Cult of the Dragon south.

When Algashon was ordered to send someone to an unknown settlement in the far flung corners of Faerun, Algashon chose his most dangerous rival and essentially exiled him to Peleveran in the Shaar.

Little did he know that Gargauth himself was waiting in Peleveran, and he was disappointed that Algashon did not come in person, plus he needed enough power to shatter the very earth he was trapped in so he needed godlike powers or a flight of dragons to do his bidding.



Ok sure, but what would draw the Cult of the Dragon... anywhere? How did he lure the Cult, even with two dozen of their powerful members being manipulated by him. How did they sell this jouney to the greater cult?

quote:

Originally posted by TBeholder
Usually, the Cult of the Dragon expands somewhere when they discover potentially recruitable dragon(s) nearby.
Of course, how they happen to stummble on this is another matter.



The answer lies right in, again P&P page 23:

"Gargauth is a loner. His few servants are undead and other creatures he can control with his charm monster ability, such as snakes and blue dragons He is often encountered astride Rathguul, a great blue wyrm with maximum hit points who serves as his steed as part of an ancient contract..."

Seems reasonable to me that, since Rathguul has been bound to Garguath since some unspecified ancient time, it would stand to reason he's been around the entire time. My theory here is that while Gargauth was trapped in the Pit beneath Peleveran for a millenia, doesnt seem far fetched to think he may have commanded Rathguul to set up his lair somewhere adjacent to or nearby the pit. Whether it be Rathguul's normal hunting, or being commanded by Gargauth to be make sure he is sighted a few times, the lure of the possibility of engaging a great blue wyrm would have been hard for CotD to resist.

On to the matter of him being trapped in the Shield.

Im my previous thread, dazzlerdal commented:

quote:

Gargauth is now a demipower trapped entirely within that shield and is completely hidden from everyone and impossible to destroy. Its the perfect place to hide.



But then I found elsewhere on these forums the 3 means of destroying the shield:

quote:

Originally posted by sleyvas
The Shield must be subject to a disintegration spell cast by the long dead Count Vizera Zahyra Bardson-Ithal, creator of the Shield of Silvam.
The Shield must be buried within the Dark Pit of Maleficence beneath the Landrise and the ruins of the capital city of Peleveran.
The Shield must be bathed in the blood on an Abyssal Lord of the Tanaríri and the shattered pieces dropped into the River Styx.



Now none of this says WHAT happens if the shield is destroyed. Does it in turn destroy Gargauth, or would it instead free him?

Now, since Zahyra is long dead, despite the great theorycrafting that have been done over the connection between Zahyra, the Shield and Gargauth (and its very relevant historical associations) we can rule out the first because Zahyra is long dead... unless there was chronomancy going on.

So lets take a look at the second two.

"The Shield must be buried within the Dark Pit of Maleficence beneath the Landrise and the ruins of the capital city of Peleveran."

Ok so, wouldnt this just result in trapping Gargauth in the pit, again? If thats the case then we can assume destruction of the Shield does not destroy Gargauth but releases him (presumably into the Pit again in this case).

So lets look at the last one.

"The Shield must be bathed in the blood on an Abyssal Lord of the Tanaríri and the shattered pieces dropped into the River Styx."

Hmmmmmmmmmm well, since Gargauth is known to obey, to the letter a pact, but will twist the spirit of it whenever the opportunity presents itself to further his own goals this one is intriguing.

A few things have been speculated (though unless im mistaken, not confirmed) elsewhere on these forums:

Graz'zt was actually the son of Asmodeous and Pale Night.
Graz'zt was originally a devil sent to the Abyss on a campaign against the demons in the Blood War.
Gargauth may have been in cahoots with Graz'zt, playing both sides of the Blood War against each other, which may be the reason for his exile from the 9 Hells by Asmodeous. But could there be more to it?

Could it be that Gargauth convinced Graz'zt that he would never find true power in Baator as Asmodeous was in power and the other Lords of 9 were well established. Could he then have convinced Graz'zt that his only way to power was to be corrupted by the chaos of the Abyss and become a Demon Prince. Asmodeous' anger at Gargauth could then be 2 fold: Betraying him and corrupting his son (Lord of Hell or not, Graz'zt would have been a fine Archdevil and General of Hell) and playing both sides of the Blood War against them.

Now lets go further to say Gargauth not only tricked Graz'zt into being corrupted, but was able to enter into a pact with him in exchange for the power he sought.

That pact could have been specific or an undefined favor in the future. Gargauth could all upon this pact to have Graz'zt spill his own blood (That of a Tenar'ri Abyssal Lord) and bathe the Shield in it, then cast the shattered pieces into the River Styx (which just so happens to run through all 3 of the layers of Azzagrat.)

This event would put Gargauth free from the Shield and in the River Styx, which will eventually, return him to Baator. As such this event would need to happen in tandum with The Unveiling so that by the time he arrived in Baator, the 10th level was waiting for him and Gargauth would reign as the 10th, and supreme Lord of Hell, over throwing Asmodeous (as each layer of hell is ruled by the one below it).

Additionally, from the time which he was exiled, then trapped until now (5e time) Gargauth has had ample time to deploy his clergy and agents into nearly every organization on Faerun: the Church of Bane, Cult of the Dragon, Governments of Amn, Tethyr, and Calimshan. Its likely he could easily make a pact with the Night Masks to help them in their plot to raise a kingdom of Vampires in exchange for their worship, and sticking to the letter of that contract he very well would, thought it may not be all they hoped when the entire continent exists in Baator... but that might not be a terrible thing for Lawful Evil vampires who've spent their time manipulating their local government in true Gargauthian fashion.

Furthermore, he could likewise have infiltrated Asomdeous' clergy as well, convincing them that he no longer wished to be worshiped by name 'Asmodeous' but simply as 'The Devil' or 'The Lord of Hell', this way when Garguath succeeds in stealing Faerun, creating the 10th layer of Baator, becoming the Lord of Hell, by default all of Asmodeous' worshipers who were convinced to honor 'The Lord of Hell', would now be worshiping Gargauth causing Asmodeous to fall from godhood and Gargauth to ascend into his place.

And if all this were to happen, what would this mean to the Blood War? Would a 10th level of Baator sway the war in favor of the Devils? Or if he was playing both sides against each other all along? Could he continue his pact with Graz'zt and unite the conquer the lower planes. Either way I imagine ultimately this would lead to an all out Lower Plane assault on the Upper Planes.

Again, maybe I'm way off here... ive been absent for faaaar too long and have way more books than I care to catch up on. And sure I have gaps to fill, especially those extending further back. So at this point I'm merely theorizing partially based on the cannon references I do have, and partially based on the vast wealth of knowledge and theories here at CandleKeep.

But based on all this it is my novice opinion, that Gargauth could be the greatest threat to the Realms, whenever it may be that he decides to finally make his move.

I have 2 theories on why we may haven't seen much from Ed or anyone else on this though:

Either
1) He's leaving Gargauth hidden in the background for creative and crafty DM's to utilize in manners much like these, and actually the obfuscated lore about him lends itself EXACTLY to being used in this way AND makes the building of the campaign as much fun as running it with all of the obscure research and theorizing involved.
2) He's got one hell of a campaign adventures or series of novels planned for the future.

Edited by - Tigon on 02 Feb 2018 12:45:33
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  13:14:33  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ooh i never noticed Rathguul. Ive been looking for dragon overlords of the south and rathguul fits the bill.

The wyrmcaves beneath the sharawood house a family of dragons. If they are blue (cant recall which colour right now) then im making rathguul their leader

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Tigon
Seeker

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  13:26:05  Show Profile Send Tigon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@dazzlerdal - This thread of yours is the artifact that drew me here. I'm ecstatic that you're still so active as I've got a plethora more questions, theories and plot hooks to bounce off you.

I feel quite honored too in that, ive only been roaming the keep here for less than 48 hours and have already been able to point out information to one of the sages they had previously missed. XD
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  13:46:54  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There are a few topics guaranteed to get a response on the halls. Anything god related is one of them. Gargauth, the Dark Three, Mystra and Shar are the most popular for responses.

I will happily postulate and theorise on anything faerun bound. I steer clear of true gods and anything planes related because my treatment of them is apocryphal in these halls.

I will be looking into rathguul tonight and adding it to my site on Unther somewhere as dragons have been heavily involved in Unther's early years.


I like the idea of rathguul being bound to gargauth somehow. Im wondering perhaps if Rathguul was imprisoned with Gargauth but perhaps escaped when the shield was created.

Regarding the means of destruction, all artefacts were given mostly impossible means to destroy them as plothooks for DMs for further adventures, but burying the shield in the pit beneath peleveran is surprisingly easy. Im wondering if perhaps this means of destruction is false and will just release Gargauth completely. Gargauth has spread the rumour so that those who acquire the shield will invariably choose the easy option and will just make him more powerful.

Perhaps there is a vestige of Gargauth (an echo) left in the pit and rejoining the majority in the shield and the remnant in the pit is the only means of making him whole again.

Ive been having thoughts about the current guardian of the shield. I forget his name but i know he is left mysterious. In considering have him be one of the original people to find the shield (maybe Tithklar Illehune) who was corrupted into a shadow of Gargauth do he looks and behaves just like him and is essentially immortal unless slain.


Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site

Edited by - dazzlerdal on 02 Feb 2018 13:48:07
Go to Top of Page

Tigon
Seeker

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  13:51:44  Show Profile Send Tigon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll admit that I'm a bit surprised that Gargauth is such a hot topic being as though he's still so rather obscure. Then again, perhaps that's precisely why.
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  14:53:53  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think people like a mystery and trying to solve it. We know Ed has hidden lots of links and we like it even more when he acknowledged the links we make or his links we have discovered.

Gargauth is just one such mystery. There are plenty of others out there. If you start reading the lore and adding your own stuff then he may just pop by and nod his head or smile knowingly which makes it all worthwhile.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Tigon
Seeker

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2018 :  12:06:51  Show Profile Send Tigon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Dazzerdal.... Ive yet to be able to find any information on what happened to the Shield of Silvam. Where and when was it last seen?
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3722 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2018 :  15:22:37  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well it was made for King Silvam then later given to the Bormuls then it was stolen from the crypt of King Strom and finally it was restored to Tethyr by the now King Haedrak (Elminster's former apprentice Lhaeo) although I've no idea how he got hold of it.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2018 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000