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Entreri3478
Great Reader

USA
2116 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2012 :  18:14:07  Show Profile  Visit Entreri3478's Homepage  Send Entreri3478 a Yahoo! Message Send Entreri3478 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

A couple of people have mentioned Tyrion Lannister... That is a great name. And he's one of my fave from the series, thus far, as well (I've read the first three books now).



I love him. I need to remind myself when reading the series that he is a dwarf. I also think that the actor from the HBO series did a fantastic job in his portrayal.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Check out my eBay store for great Realms/Dragonlance/Ravenloft/Dark Sun/etc series! http://stores.ebay.com/Remembered-Realms-and-Hobbies

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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1015 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2012 :  18:59:50  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like the names of:

Justin Case
Ben Dover


I cannot be caged...

I cannot be controled...

Understand this as you die; ever pathetic, ever fools!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31316 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2012 :  01:39:29  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Kaela Mensha Khaine- Warhammer 40k




Gods, I hate that name... Kaela is a girl's name, to me, and Mensha is just horrible. I would have liked the name a lot better if it was what I thought it was before I first saw it in print: Kaelamen Shakaine.

I don't mind Khaine, but it always struck me as odd that an alien race would have such a "human-sounding-name" for an entity they hold in great reverence.

Funnily enough, I think Mensha works better.

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Entromancer
Learned Scribe

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2012 :  02:43:32  Show Profile Send Entromancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, a before e. ;)

Rhamidarigaaz--Time Streams, Invasion, Planeshift (Mtg Novels. Male dragon.
Roland Deschain--The Dark Tower by Stephen King. Male.
Isak--Male, from The Twilight Reign by Tom Lloyd.
Kastan Styrax--Male, from The Twilight Reign by Tom Lloyd.
Sang-drax--The Death Gate Cycle by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman;. (It? Serpent-dragons were never discussed as having a given gender).


"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul

"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2012 :  03:51:56  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer

Also, a before e. ;)

Rhamidarigaaz--Time Streams, Invasion, Planeshift (Mtg Novels. Male dragon.


Long one-word names often strike me as stupid, and irks me to no ends. When I read that name in the Invasion Cycle, I made a mental note to cut it into 'Rham.'

“‘I understood in a moment of stillness,’” Litima read. “‘Those candle flames were like the lives of men. So fragile. So deadly. Left alone, they lit and warmed. Let run rampant, they would destroy the very things they were meant to illuminate. Embryonic bonfires, each bearing a seed of destruction so potent it could tumble cities and dash kings to their knees. In later years, my mind would return to that calm, silent evening, when I had stared at rows of living lights. And I would understand. To be given loyalty is to be infused like a gemstone, to be granted the frightful license to destroy not only one’s self, but all within one’s care.’”

The Way of Kings, Book 1 of The Stormlight Archive, by Brandon Sanderson
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26684 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2012 :  05:21:18  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Kaela Mensha Khaine- Warhammer 40k




Gods, I hate that name... Kaela is a girl's name, to me, and Mensha is just horrible. I would have liked the name a lot better if it was what I thought it was before I first saw it in print: Kaelamen Shakaine.

I don't mind Khaine, but it always struck me as odd that an alien race would have such a "human-sounding-name" for an entity they hold in great reverence.

Funnily enough, I think Mensha works better.



Khaine is a pretty human-sounding name.

For me, Mensha just doesn't sound good for anything... It sounds more like some weird food that you only got because it was part of the overall dinner on the menu, and as soon as you take a bite, you shove it all off to the side of the plate.

Or a really insulting dimunitive...

It's just not a name that commands any kind of respect. It invites bemused skepticism... And that's just not something you want in reference to the Avatar.

It's like taking someone with Ahnold's build, and calling him Timmy.

Getting back on topic...

Here's a couple more that I like:
Kyriani
Priam Agrivar
Han Solo
Talon Karrde
Kellan Colt
G'Kar
Tasslehoff Burrfoot
Hanse Davion

Gotta admit, though, I don't know much about Kellan Colt, other than the figure is cool. I wish there had been more of the Shadowrun Duels figures, because some of the ones I got (particularly Lothan the Wise) are so friggin' cool!

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 Mar 2012 05:22:46
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31316 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2012 :  05:33:35  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Getting back on topic...

Here's a couple more that I like:
Kyriani
I've a long-standing NPC in my RAVENLOFT campaign -- specifically, in the Domain of Sithicus, named Kyr'iani. She's my tribute to the Realms NPC of the same name.
quote:
G'Kar
And G'Quan. Among two of my favourite televised sci-fi names.

...

A few of my favourites --

Khelben
Qui-Gon Jinn
Thaal Sinestro
Radagast
Raistlin
Yaztromo

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2012 :  05:34:19  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Tasslehoff Burrfoot


Before I delved into DL a long time ago, I heard/read that name somewhere, and thought they're horses---Tasslehoff and Burrfoot.

“‘I understood in a moment of stillness,’” Litima read. “‘Those candle flames were like the lives of men. So fragile. So deadly. Left alone, they lit and warmed. Let run rampant, they would destroy the very things they were meant to illuminate. Embryonic bonfires, each bearing a seed of destruction so potent it could tumble cities and dash kings to their knees. In later years, my mind would return to that calm, silent evening, when I had stared at rows of living lights. And I would understand. To be given loyalty is to be infused like a gemstone, to be granted the frightful license to destroy not only one’s self, but all within one’s care.’”

The Way of Kings, Book 1 of The Stormlight Archive, by Brandon Sanderson
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Light
Learned Scribe

Australia
231 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2012 :  11:41:43  Show Profile Send Light a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Tasslehoff Burrfoot


Before I delved into DL a long time ago, I heard/read that name somewhere, and thought they're horses---Tasslehoff and Burrfoot.

That reminds me. Raistlin Majere is most certainly one of my favourite names.

"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga)
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1172 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2012 :  14:21:34  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm... I'd need more time to narrow my choices down to ten. I'll mull on it a while.

Meanwhile, I felt the need to reply to two scribes, about subjects at best tangentially relevant.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And the fourth may have a name that's a common word, as well -- Zhara is quite close in spelling to an Arabic word that means "star" or "flower".


Zahra(h/') is the most common transcription of the Arabic name to which you refer. The name may be derived either from #1585;#1575;#1569; #8206;#8776; 'shining', which I'd Latinise as zahra' or from : #1586;#1607;#1585;#1577; #8206; #8776; 'blooming flower', which I'd render zahrah. Other ways to represent the same name/word in Latin/Western script include zohra and zehra and I think it's used in Urdu/Farsi as well, but I couldn't tell you how to render it there to save my life. The Persian script differs subtly from the Arabic, but I don't know exactly how* and it's not as if I were an Arabic scholar of any sort, either, more is the pity.**

The two words in question are related, obviously, but I don't know how or how far back. I'd chance to say that the original meaning is the 'shining' one and that the association with flowers came as a result of the poetical nature of Arabic, where a flower that blooms may be said to shine. The -h ending suggests that the 'blooming flower' meaning is derived from a verb, meaning that it probably got started as a reference to the blooming and only later took on the connotation of flower in general.

The name, having been used as an appelation for the Prophet's daughter Fatimah, is very common in Islamic countries or countries with significant cultural influences from such countries. It's a common name in the Swahili-speaking coastal areas of Africa, for example.

In proper Arabic, when used as an appelation, it's usually rendered al-Zahra and means #8776; 'the bright one' or 'she who shines'. In modern days, it could also be taken to mean 'the flower', of course. The male equivalent 'al-azhar', however, refers exclusively to brightness and by poetical extension, shining glory or suchlike.

To Westerners, the male form may be the most familiar one, due to the great university in Cairo, Al-Azhar University. It is, of course, named in honour of Fatimah al-Zahra, daughter of the Prophet, from whom the Fatimid rulers of Egypt traced their descent.

I love the name, whether as a given name or an appelation, but I can't see it being transcribed as 'zhara'. The 'zh-' sound is a voiced version of the 'sh-- sound in words like ship or sugar and pronouncing the word 'zahra' like that would transform it completely.

Also, the voiced 'zh-' sound is not common in Arabic, but sometimes used to transcribe the way Levantines pronounce '#487;#299;m. Even so, that's more properly transcribed by using a 'j' sound. If you imagine the word 'zhara' pronounced with a 'j' sound like that from 'jeune' it doesn't sound much like 'zahrah', does it?

Of course, 'zhara' could be an accurate transcription from a language which adopted the name but is different from Classic Arabic in pronounciation. Even so, Occam's Razor would tell us that it's more likely to be a coincidence and there is no etymological connection, unless we can demonstrate some connection between the cultures. That the author was inspired by 'Zahra', however, is quite likely.

*Other than there are more letters and all sorts of odd squiggly lines and thingums.
**Has anyone else noticed how the time we have is never enough to learn everything interesting in the world, let alone have time for other hobbies? And then we are expected to work too, if we want to eat, shelter and have money for books and other sources of information, as well as those hobbies. It's a good thing that I don't believe in an omniscient Creator, because if I did, I'd be furious at him for the way this place is run.


quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

He is pretty much the only Lannister who commanded respect along with fear. The rest must make do with fear and deceit which forms a much weaker bond of loyalty.


I have to say that I had a tremendous respect for Tywin Lannister, especially as portrayed in the novels*.

No other great lord or ruler of any kind anywhere in Westeros or the world of ASoIaF as a whole, really, was shown to have his ability, intellect, discipline and detachment. While he was Hand, he ruled wisely and well, even with the 'minor' disadvantage of a King deterioating into madness.

I'll freely grant that he had a terrible, terrible flaw. His cool reason was thrown out of whack in all matters regarding his son Tyrion. Tragically, Tywin could not be objective about Tyrion (and vice versa). This was his one error in judgment and the one mar on what is otherwise a perfect statesman.

I am aware of his callousness, his ruthlessness and his hard-to-love nature. I said I respected him, not liked or loved. How could I not respect someone who was a master diplomat, statesman and general in his early twenties, able enough to rule the kingdom and rule it well? Rational decision-making is hard enough for experts within their own narrow field of competence, at the height of their professional careers. Lord Tywin made rational decisions all his life, no matter the cost to himself or others, and he made it in some of the most complex fields possible, without the crutch of specialist knowledge about his subject.

He was a prodigy of a man, the sort of man whose genius lies not only in his functioning brain, for that is something few in every generation have, but mostly in his titanic will. He could subjugate everything that he was to what he saw as his duty, the restoration of the Lannisters to a position he considered their due. Apart from him, almost every Lannister is in some way witty, charming or at least gruffly likable (Kevan), but Lord Tywin never smiles. That's not because he never could, it's because he gave up such frivolities as enjoying anything about life on the altar of his duty as he saw it.

Some may claim that far from being admirable, that reflects to the detriment of his moral worth. Surely it cannot be a good thing that he was more interested in the welfare of his family than that of the kingdom of Westeros. On the other hand, why should allegiance to a flag, a piece of ground or a throne automatically be morally superior to allegiance to a family? From my point of view, none of the above are sufficient motives to justify harming others**, so what difference does it make that he had a slightly narrow focus than some? He was not self-interested in any way, he spared himself even less than he spared others and he was consistent within his own ethical framework.*** That's a hell of a lot more than can be said for many men who are admired today and even more who have been admired in history.

Lord Tywin was probably the best ruler that Westeros has had in a long time and none of the other claimants look to be likely to improve matters for the common people if they do claim power. A 'medieval-ish' state like Westeros has surprisingly little influence on the daily life of peasants under them until and unless someone ruling buggahs up right royally (pardon the pun). It's then that wars ruin their crops and their lives or ruinous taxes exacted to try to save a spendthrift royal family from the consequences of their actions are imposed on their lords and passed on to them.

Lord Tywin managed to steer clear of such mistakes while he was Hand and if not for the follies of others, he would have steered clear of them while ruling through his grandsons. Even with the best intentions in the world, I can't say that I have much hope for Dany or any other claimant having the requisite detachment, ability and discipline not to make an ill-considered move during their reign.

They'd want the best for the smallfolk, maybe, while Lord Tywin couldn't care less about them except as resources. But I trust Lord Tywin to take better care of his resources, never squandering them needlessly, than I trust Dany or some other starry-eyed idealist to manage to successfully improve their lot and not just make things worse. Rather a ruthless bastard who does the job well than a wonderful person who fails at it, when the consequences of failure are so terrible.

Apart from Lord Tywin, I found Gemma Lannister (technically Frey, with her marriage, but c'mon ) tremendously likable, charming and possessed of a mine of good sense. Witty, too. Respected and liked her.

Ser Kevan Lannister is also an easy man to admire. He was no great man, but a competent, loyal and stalwart knight who spent his life doing what he saw as his duty. He even had the good sense to be loyal to House Lannister in a discriminating way that allowed him some independence of thought. While he trusted his brother implicitly, he was not dependent on him for guidance. When he was forced to make decisions on his own, they were good decisions, not the acts of a man so accustomed to authority that he can't think for himself.

I can even admire Jaime. Flawed, oh yes, but any man who says that he does not understand how love could drive one to do things one would otherwise consider wrong is either a liar or a fool. He had the misfortunate to fall deeply in love with a person whom society would never allow him to embrace openly. Whether that fact and later events were what eventually made her into a person profoundly unworthy of anyone's love, or whether she was that from the very beginning, is not all that relevant. Love rarely allows for the objectivity of judging the true nature of the beloved, at any time.

Unlike so many others, Jaime was true to his beloved until well past the time when she had thrown away any right to a claim on him. That's admirable and that I can respect. He had every opportunity to philander his way through the Seven Kingdoms and he knew that his beloved did not live chaste when apart from him. But he didn't. He had self-control and, oddly for a man almost defined by his self-loathing, some vestigal self-respect.

His most infamous act was no foul deed, but a heroic one. Either he acted rightly without thinking much about it, which is admirable, or he realised the consequences**** and did the right thing anyway, which is far more so.

He was once a brash boy with naive ideas and far too pleased with his own skill and talent. Before he was properly an adult, he'd fallen in love with someone who was guaranteed to break his heart, because of societal prejudice if nothing else, and he'd been forced to make a man's choices and live a man's life. What he learned was that villainy cloaked in a thin veneer of justification or just crowned with tradition would be venerated and rewarded. Meanwhile, while the crowd would go wild for anyone doing violence according to their prejudices, they'd condemn someone for doing the right thing on no better basis than the childish notions he'd once had himself.

Is it any wonder he started to reject people preemptively? If he was sure that nothing he could do or say would make people do anything but judge him according to their own prejudices, why should he bother? At least if he scorned the world first, he'd feel some measure of control. And thus, his justifiable pride in athletic prowess, courage and strength became a reckless arrogance. He cultivated his arrogance, deliberately insulted people and made enemies. That way, he would not feel a new rejection every day from almost everyone in the world. He was the one who didn't want their love, didn't need their good opinion.

Of course, Jaime knew his mask for the sham it was. He did care and their whispers did hurt him. And because he could not honestly earn their regard and could not make himself indifferent to their ignorant judgments, he felt inadequate, weak. He was driven ever more to prove himself, to prove everyone else was inadequate, not him. Thus a vicious circle, a feed-back loop, existed to ensure that the more he felt rejected, the less likable he became.

Before the start of the saga, Jaime had failed, as a man and as a knight. His failures were different than what the whispers blamed him for, it is true, but they were there nonetheless. He was not strong enough to survive the consequences of his heroic youthful action. Then again, should we lose all respect for a man merely because he is not one in a million or perhaps even one in a billion? How many men truly have the willpower, from their earliest days, not to be suspectible to influence from those around them and not to lose their judgment over love?

Jaime had the misfortunate to be subjected nearly exclusively to bad influences and the pressure it exerted was more than any normal man could bear. That he still retain the desire, however, twisted by his experiences, to be a good man and do what he sees as right, speaks highly of his quality. He may not have Lord Tywin's extraordinary strength of will, but he appears to be more resilient and honourable than most men.

I like him, emphathise with him and even admire and respect him, if not for the man he has become, then for the man he wanted to become and the man he is trying to become.

Hmmm... is it evident from the above that I tend to try to understand and emphathise with all characters, if at all possible?

*Not that he's been badly portrayed so far in the series, just that the novels could afford to spend far more time and space on developing characters that were not point of view characters.
**Nor is honour, glory, tradition, supposed divine mandate, obedience to divine law or the rightness of one's cause. The only logically viable ethical justification for an act which causes harm to others is that it is the best way one can see to prevent greater harm. Killing people because they are killing the smallfolk is fine, killing people because you should be king is not. Well, not unless that allowing others to be king would be injurous to more people than are harmed by the war. It's odd how pacifistic this statement makes me sound, because I'm actually a great fan of violence as a means of solving problems. Well, by that I mean, I have found that a great deal of problems exist for which a violent solution appears to be necessary. It's an imperfect world and living in it means choosing the least of evils.
***Except as related to his tragic flaw, the blindspot around Tyrion.
****Though it is unlikely that he grasped the true extent of them. At that age, at that time, how could he? It's not easy to understand why doing the right thing will make you forever reviled.

Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas

Edited by - Icelander on 26 Mar 2012 14:22:12
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1533 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2012 :  14:55:38  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Kaela Mensha Khaine- Warhammer 40k




Gods, I hate that name... Kaela is a girl's name, to me, and Mensha is just horrible. I would have liked the name a lot better if it was what I thought it was before I first saw it in print: Kaelamen Shakaine.

I don't mind Khaine, but it always struck me as odd that an alien race would have such a "human-sounding-name" for an entity they hold in great reverence.

Funnily enough, I think Mensha works better.


It may be a human sounding name but have you heard the avatar scream that name to the heavens in any of the Dawn of war games! I mean it really is a name that inspires you to charge into battle.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26684 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2012 :  19:25:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

Hmmm... I'd need more time to narrow my choices down to ten. I'll mull on it a while.

Meanwhile, I felt the need to reply to two scribes, about subjects at best tangentially relevant.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And the fourth may have a name that's a common word, as well -- Zhara is quite close in spelling to an Arabic word that means "star" or "flower".


Zahra(h/') is the most common transcription of the Arabic name to which you refer. The name may be derived either from #1585;#1575;#1569; #8206;#8776; 'shining', which I'd Latinise as zahra' or from : #1586;#1607;#1585;#1577; #8206; #8776; 'blooming flower', which I'd render zahrah. Other ways to represent the same name/word in Latin/Western script include zohra and zehra and I think it's used in Urdu/Farsi as well, but I couldn't tell you how to render it there to save my life. The Persian script differs subtly from the Arabic, but I don't know exactly how* and it's not as if I were an Arabic scholar of any sort, either, more is the pity.**

The two words in question are related, obviously, but I don't know how or how far back. I'd chance to say that the original meaning is the 'shining' one and that the association with flowers came as a result of the poetical nature of Arabic, where a flower that blooms may be said to shine. The -h ending suggests that the 'blooming flower' meaning is derived from a verb, meaning that it probably got started as a reference to the blooming and only later took on the connotation of flower in general.

The name, having been used as an appelation for the Prophet's daughter Fatimah, is very common in Islamic countries or countries with significant cultural influences from such countries. It's a common name in the Swahili-speaking coastal areas of Africa, for example.

In proper Arabic, when used as an appelation, it's usually rendered al-Zahra and means #8776; 'the bright one' or 'she who shines'. In modern days, it could also be taken to mean 'the flower', of course. The male equivalent 'al-azhar', however, refers exclusively to brightness and by poetical extension, shining glory or suchlike.

To Westerners, the male form may be the most familiar one, due to the great university in Cairo, Al-Azhar University. It is, of course, named in honour of Fatimah al-Zahra, daughter of the Prophet, from whom the Fatimid rulers of Egypt traced their descent.

I love the name, whether as a given name or an appelation, but I can't see it being transcribed as 'zhara'. The 'zh-' sound is a voiced version of the 'sh-- sound in words like ship or sugar and pronouncing the word 'zahra' like that would transform it completely.

Also, the voiced 'zh-' sound is not common in Arabic, but sometimes used to transcribe the way Levantines pronounce '#487;#299;m. Even so, that's more properly transcribed by using a 'j' sound. If you imagine the word 'zhara' pronounced with a 'j' sound like that from 'jeune' it doesn't sound much like 'zahrah', does it?

Of course, 'zhara' could be an accurate transcription from a language which adopted the name but is different from Classic Arabic in pronounciation. Even so, Occam's Razor would tell us that it's more likely to be a coincidence and there is no etymological connection, unless we can demonstrate some connection between the cultures. That the author was inspired by 'Zahra', however, is quite likely.


When I was reseaching the name, I only found Zehra and Zohra as listed spellings... Not questioning your far more extensive research; just stating a fact. I only spent a few minutes looking into it, and that was years ago.

I will note, however, that with languages using other alphabets/writing systems, there is sometimes some variance with how the words are Latinized.

There is also the fact that of the 4 Alias vessels we have names for, we definitively know that 3 of them have names that are common words.

Me, I'm putting those two factoids together and noting that Zhara is from a country inspired at least in part by Arabia. So in my opinion, the obvious assumption would be that Zhara is named Flower or Star in her own tongue. Maybe the authors flubbed it, or maybe that's how it was spelled in their Arab-English dictionary. For me, I'm convinced that my translation is what the authors intended.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Entreri3478
Great Reader

USA
2116 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2012 :  20:02:09  Show Profile  Visit Entreri3478's Homepage  Send Entreri3478 a Yahoo! Message Send Entreri3478 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
1st time i have seen a post on Candlekeep that required 4 asterisks

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Edited by - Entreri3478 on 26 Mar 2012 20:02:42
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe

Greece
514 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2012 :  22:36:42  Show Profile  Visit BARDOBARBAROS's Homepage Send BARDOBARBAROS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

A couple of people have mentioned Tyrion Lannister... That is a great name. And he's one of my fave from the series, thus far, as well (I've read the first three books now).



Game of thrones it looks like BIRTHRIGHT world..Actually a lot of fan of birthright say that it is quite stolen from it!!!
furthermore one of the creators of birthright is called EDDARD STARK!!!

BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!


"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
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Posted - 27 Mar 2012 :  00:17:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

A couple of people have mentioned Tyrion Lannister... That is a great name. And he's one of my fave from the series, thus far, as well (I've read the first three books now).



Game of thrones it looks like BIRTHRIGHT world..Actually a lot of fan of birthright say that it is quite stolen from it!!!
furthermore one of the creators of birthright is called EDDARD STARK!!!



Let's see... Martin started writing A Game of Thrones four years before Birthright came out.

The book was published one year after the setting came out, which means it's likely that the publisher had the finished manuscript when Birthright came out. Even if not the finished manuscript, the publisher had seen a couple drafts by then.

The boxed set for the campaign setting is credited to Rich Baker and Colin McComb.

I cannot find any records of a game designer named Eddard Stark.

I think further research from these Birthright fans claiming stolen material is in order.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
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Posted - 27 Mar 2012 :  02:48:29  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

A couple of people have mentioned Tyrion Lannister... That is a great name. And he's one of my fave from the series, thus far, as well (I've read the first three books now).



Game of thrones it looks like BIRTHRIGHT world..Actually a lot of fan of birthright say that it is quite stolen from it!!!

Well, I've been a fan of BIRTHRIGHT since it's earliest publications, and even I have trouble believing this.

Sure, there are some surface similarities, but that's true of any fantasy setting that uses the core dynastic dynamics of either GoT and BR as a basis for the world.

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LastStand
Learned Scribe

130 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2012 :  06:53:31  Show Profile Send LastStand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I belive Martin said himself that AsoIaF novels, Game of Thrones, where inspired by Lord of the Rings and The Dragonbone chair. Seeing that a lot of fantasy draws inspiration from these it's quite possible that there can be similarities.


For the sake of not going off-topic.
I don't think I would be able to list ten names without giving it some serious thought, but two names that spring to mind are:

Illidan (Male, Warcraft)
Rivan/Riven (both spellings. One from Kemp's novels and the other from the Belgariad novels)

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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1727 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2012 :  07:11:14  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
funny names are my favourite, can't remember most of them right now

Dickon Manwoody (ASoiaF)
Dragonbait
Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler (Discworld)
Vastly Blank (Malazan)
Ashen Shugar (Feist)
Cracknut Whirrun (Joe Abercrombie)
Malaclypse the Elder (Illuminatus)
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BARDOBARBAROS
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Greece
514 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2012 :  08:53:02  Show Profile  Visit BARDOBARBAROS's Homepage Send BARDOBARBAROS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

The boxed set for the campaign setting is credited to Rich Baker and Colin McComb.

I cannot find any records of a game designer named Eddard Stark.




look here:
http://tsrinfo.net/archive/br/br-havens.htm

and there are many more products by him on Birthright....

BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!


"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26684 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2012 :  11:02:45  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

The boxed set for the campaign setting is credited to Rich Baker and Colin McComb.

I cannot find any records of a game designer named Eddard Stark.




look here:
http://tsrinfo.net/archive/br/br-havens.htm

and there are many more products by him on Birthright....



That's Ed, not Eddard. And that book came out the same year as A Game of Thrones, which Martin began writing five years before.

So I'm still not seeing anything other than a coincidence, and a pretty weak one at that.

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Entreri3478
Great Reader

USA
2116 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2012 :  13:45:22  Show Profile  Visit Entreri3478's Homepage  Send Entreri3478 a Yahoo! Message Send Entreri3478 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With as many fantasy books/authors/settings we have out there today, there are always going to be some similarities between products, sometimes striking similarities. On this issue though i would have to side with Martin. Like Wooly said, Martin began writing this book years before the Birthright setting began. I'm not a writer for D&D modules, but i doubt it takes as much pre-planning to finish writing one when compared to an 8 or 9 hundred page beginning fantasy novel of an epic series. Just my 2 cents.

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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1172 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2012 :  15:22:50  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The argument that ASoIaF owes any kind of artistic debt to Birthright is ridiculous on its face. Both settings are based on certain aspects of the real world, exaggerated for dramatic effect in real world popular history and literature.

Saying that the dynastic elements of ASoIaF have to be from Birthright would be like saying that House M.D. was ripping off General Hospital because it has real-world diseases that appeared there.

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Entreri3478
Great Reader

USA
2116 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2012 :  17:27:42  Show Profile  Visit Entreri3478's Homepage  Send Entreri3478 a Yahoo! Message Send Entreri3478 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

The argument that ASoIaF owes any kind of artistic debt to Birthright is ridiculous on its face. Both settings are based on certain aspects of the real world, exaggerated for dramatic effect in real world popular history and literature.

Saying that the dynastic elements of ASoIaF have to be from Birthright would be like saying that House M.D. was ripping off General Hospital because it has real-world diseases that appeared there.



E.R. ripped of General Hospital as well.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Check out my eBay store for great Realms/Dragonlance/Ravenloft/Dark Sun/etc series! http://stores.ebay.com/Remembered-Realms-and-Hobbies

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2012 :  06:34:41  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LastStand

Illidan (Male, Warcraft)


I like it, too, and the character (though just a little). He's been portrayed well enough in most of the WoW novels I read, except in Christie Golden's Arthas.

quote:
Originally posted by Quale

Vastly Blank (Malazan)


While I enjoyed some of the Malazan books, I have to say most of Erikson's characters have the most uninspiring and incredibly stupid names. If the characters were as asinine as their names sound, that would have been, well, fitting. But many of them aren't, so the names usually irritate me...I did try to tolerate them, for the story's sake.

quote:
Originally posted by Quale

Ashen Shugar (Feist)


Funny you mentioned that. In my native language, it sounds like two words that literally mean salt and sugar.

“‘I understood in a moment of stillness,’” Litima read. “‘Those candle flames were like the lives of men. So fragile. So deadly. Left alone, they lit and warmed. Let run rampant, they would destroy the very things they were meant to illuminate. Embryonic bonfires, each bearing a seed of destruction so potent it could tumble cities and dash kings to their knees. In later years, my mind would return to that calm, silent evening, when I had stared at rows of living lights. And I would understand. To be given loyalty is to be infused like a gemstone, to be granted the frightful license to destroy not only one’s self, but all within one’s care.’”

The Way of Kings, Book 1 of The Stormlight Archive, by Brandon Sanderson

Edited by - Dennis on 29 Mar 2012 06:43:52
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1533 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2012 :  10:05:35  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Quale

Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler (Discworld)



How could I forget ol Dibbler. Thanks for reminding me.
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