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 Elminster Must Die -- Prologue & Chapters 1 - 5
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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
777 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2010 :  19:14:23  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now we can say that Ed's books could be poorly edited, as in his stories
shouldn't be edited at all. Shadows of the Avatars comes to mind and
a poorly edited and directed trilogy.
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3521 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2010 :  13:35:02  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I dont think this particualr novel is poorly edited, and Im pretty sure Ed would agree....I think it is more a matter of there are so many of us who want soooo much from an Ed novel...each of them, we wants everything they want, and when the stuff that is secondary to their wants gets in the way of their interests......thats where most people thaink...'Ed stuffs too many storylines" or stuff into his novels.

It is an insanely unfair standard Ed is held to, and I think all things considered he did a great job yet again!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4718 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2010 :  13:27:38  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just realised that the "teaser" snippets on the WotC website were chapter header flavour pieces that were cut from the novel. Considering that every chapter starts on a new page with a fair chunk of blank, white stuff there, it just makes you want to shake your head. If the novel is worth publishing in hardcover, then it's worth doing it properly. I just don't get it sometimes.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2010 :  14:09:55  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I just realised that the "teaser" snippets on the WotC website were chapter header flavour pieces that were cut from the novel. Considering that every chapter starts on a new page with a fair chunk of blank, white stuff there, it just makes you want to shake your head. If the novel is worth publishing in hardcover, then it's worth doing it properly. I just don't get it sometimes.

-- George Krashos
Apparently, they were cut on purpose, to be reintroduced later as an incentive for folks to pick up the paperback as well.

Not my favorite decision in the world, but there it is.
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3521 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2010 :  23:00:03  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I just realised that the "teaser" snippets on the WotC website were chapter header flavour pieces that were cut from the novel. Considering that every chapter starts on a new page with a fair chunk of blank, white stuff there, it just makes you want to shake your head. If the novel is worth publishing in hardcover, then it's worth doing it properly. I just don't get it sometimes.

-- George Krashos
Apparently, they were cut on purpose, to be reintroduced later as an incentive for folks to pick up the paperback as well.

Not my favorite decision in the world, but there it is.



It just inspired me to write them into the book with my own poor penmanship! I've never been one to buy in to obvious marketing ploys like that. Especially one that targets only the most loyal of Ed's readers.

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Captain_Ron
Acolyte

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2010 :  16:53:54  Show Profile  Visit Captain_Ron's Homepage  Send Captain_Ron an AOL message Send Captain_Ron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have been waiting for this for a while and I have not been let down yet. I know that for some people Ed is hit or miss, and I can understand that. I think his writing style is not for everyone. Personally, I love when he writes about Cormyr.

My only 'beef' with the novel so far is the fact we seem to be jumping into the middle of conversations with some of our main characters and I can figure out what/who they are talking about. I end up re-reading a page trying to figure it out. It's not a big beef, but just something I've picked up on.

I would say that when I read an Ed book, the thing I look forward to the most is getting a couple pages about a character that you believe may have a decent amount of impact due to the amount of sentences written about him/her, then Ed killing them off immediately. It's usually a Wizard of War, but it always makes me chuckle. I do not believe it has happened so far(at least not up to where I am in the book) but I have a feeling it will happen.

I once loved a girl, a child I'm told
I gave her my heart, and she gave me a cold
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IanVeers
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2010 :  14:17:51  Show Profile  Visit IanVeers's Homepage Send IanVeers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah I noticed that too. I'm not sure whether to find in annoying or amusing to see such a well defined character suddenly get cacked. On an emotional level though, it does make me hate the villain even more. It also keeps me on the edge of my seat, sometimes I feel myself cringing when certain characters fall into those situations. Because I never know who will die next. I supposed that's the reason Ed writes characters like that.

As for his descriptions of places and things, it's almost like reading an anthropologist's personal journal on his travels. Not that dry crap that they make you buy for the classes but his personal journals. That sort of stuff intrigues me.
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Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Learned Scribe

Canada
92 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2010 :  15:27:56  Show Profile  Visit Sith_Lord_Drizzt's Homepage Send Sith_Lord_Drizzt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I just realised that the "teaser" snippets on the WotC website were chapter header flavour pieces that were cut from the novel. Considering that every chapter starts on a new page with a fair chunk of blank, white stuff there, it just makes you want to shake your head. If the novel is worth publishing in hardcover, then it's worth doing it properly. I just don't get it sometimes.

-- George Krashos
Apparently, they were cut on purpose, to be reintroduced later as an incentive for folks to pick up the paperback as well.

Not my favorite decision in the world, but there it is.



It just inspired me to write them into the book with my own poor penmanship! I've never been one to buy in to obvious marketing ploys like that. Especially one that targets only the most loyal of Ed's readers.



I must be missing something here....where are these "teaser" snippets located? Anyone have a link?

"Jarlaxle's grin disappeared as he turned his attention to Drizzt. He watched the fury of the drow unleashed. Jarlaxle had seen Drizzt in action many times before, but never like that".
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Iluvrien
Seeker

United Kingdom
49 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2010 :  01:13:42  Show Profile  Visit Iluvrien's Homepage Send Iluvrien a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have just finished Chapter 5 and my primary responses have been ones of bittersweet pleasure and mild horror. I would sound my own voice in support of those scribes who found this latest work of Ed's to be wonderfully written.

If it was badly constructed it would evoke nothing from me. This, sadly, has not been the case. I wish I was not feeling the suffering of some of my favourite Realmsian personalities quite so keenly. Poor El, poor poor Storm...

... that is the source of the bittersweet pleasure. To see them again and alive is the pleasure. It is marred in no uncertain terms, however, by the manner in which they are seen. Beset and far from home, comfort and what little companionship a few stolen days may have provided.

That Laer also seems to have been confirmed as residing in the past tense is also a blow.

Alusair's appearance, though I always preferred dear Fee, was welcome. Not the least because it seems that although she is no longer free to range across Cormyr as she once did, she retains much of the character she once held.

And how that character is needed! The source of my mild horror is in seeing just how far the Forest Kingdom seems to have fallen. Always a hotbed of viperous nobles, at least there were dependable souls such as Mother Laspeera, my favourite Fee and Mreen about to (in Alusair's words) "Defend Cormyr from itself".

As wonderful as these Chapters have been (and I shall be starting on Chapter 6 immediately after this post) I do feel that I have been proverbially Jedi'd. This is not the Cormyr I was looking for.

...a beautiful job as always though, Ed!

Edited by - Iluvrien on 18 Sep 2010 01:15:06
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2010 :  03:08:51  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hang in there, Iluvrien!
The passage of time has taken away some of the stalwart characters of Cormyr ("the good guys on the side of the Crown"), and what happened in the Spellplague has brought Mystra's Chosen down hard . . . but the rest of the novel will show you some new champions, and - - most importantly - - that in some ways, Cormyr hasn't changed very much at all.
It's been less than a century, after all.
I know Ed laments the loss of good chances to tell some of the tales of Filfaeril's later years, Alusair's regency, and so on . . . but he's working on ways to get a few of those into print for us all, somewhere and somehow.
Enjoy the rest of ELMINSTER MUST DIE!, I hope, and come back to tell us more of how you felt about it. I think it's one of Ed's best Realms books so far, and can't wait for the sequel, BURY ELMINSTER DEEP. Ed, of course, can't wait to write the third one.
love,
THO
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Iluvrien
Seeker

United Kingdom
49 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2010 :  11:16:28  Show Profile  Visit Iluvrien's Homepage Send Iluvrien a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you for your response, Lady Hooded One!

I understand what you mean with respect to the stalwarts of Cormyr. Much as the experience has been less that comfortable at times, the first five chapters arguably had to unfold as they did. In setting the scene for Newcomers to the Realms they had to provide an outline of the elements in play, and to those of us who are returning they had to indicate those people and places that are no longer extant.

We've had the appearance of "The villain who only thinks he is the villain" (M. S.), the "True villain unless someone else is using him (probably)" (M), The beleagured but resolute defenders (El, Storm, Al), and the neutal parties that may be drawn one way or the other (Gan, Vain, Am). I have suspicions about the Silent Shadow... I think they may end up being a force for good in spite of themselves.

I truly hope that Ed gets the chance to tell more tales featuring Filfaeril and Alusair, they were among my very favourite characters from Ed's works. I say among because so many of those he wrote about became dear to me through the manner of his telling. As I said before, I shall also miss Laspeera and Myrmeen. Though the list is not even limited to those four! Tessaril Winter I am looking at you.

I am looking forward to seeing who comes to the aid of the Forst Kingdom even as I mourn those who have gone.

I would agree that this book is one of Ed's best and a pleasure to read, even if that pleasure is sometimes a little painful .

I am just coming to the end of chapter 10 so I will move to that thread now!
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2010 :  12:00:27  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm still in chapter 2. And enjoying it so far...Though I really feel sad for El, and specially for the Simbul. I'm used to seeing her blasting Red Wizards and anyone foolish enough to mess with her, not to her 'begging....'

Every beginning has an end.
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2012 :  19:30:01  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been re-reading all of the Realms novels I own (pretty much everything) in as close to chronological order as possible (some of them overlap), and reached ELMINSTER MUST DIE. And on this re-reading I'm struck by how powerful, moving, and brutal these opening chapters are.
(Not to mention being a poke in the eye to all the "El is Ed's Bobby Sue" types. These chapter make that abundantly clear to anyone with a basic grasp of English who bothers to read them. Just sayin,')
Gripping, so far.
BB
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Neo2151
Learned Scribe

USA
109 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2012 :  07:33:32  Show Profile  Send Neo2151 an AOL message Send Neo2151 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, ever since around the time of 4th edition, I've been avoiding WotC, and unfortunately, FR as well. The former because... well, let's not, shall we? The latter because the novels just stopped looking interesting when I'd pick them up off the shelf and read the back cover.
Simply put, it stopped feeling like new Realms novels and just felt like new "generic D&D" novels. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the impression I got.

Well, fast-forward to today, and finally finishing A Dance With Dragons, and I find myself in need of a new book, so why not replace some of my old favorites of my long-lost FR collection and re-read them?
Well, bookstores are awful these days! Couldn't find any of the novels I was looking for, but I noticed Elminster Must Die and thought, "Why not?"

==========

Well, Ed hasn't changed a bit it seems, and that's both good and bad I'd say.
In my personal opinion (and it's one that many I know seem to share!) that his stories are amazing, but his writing style is hard on the eyes. This is true of EMD just as it is true of his older works.
And while I'm enjoying the story, and the main characters are just as intriguing and fun as they've always been, I can't help but feel his "background" characters all suffer, just as they always have. Every Cormyrian War Mage is a carbon-copy of the next: Hot-headed, quick to blast, and utterly unlikable in that they have no real character. Yes, they're all technically soldiers, but they've also had to have the patience to study magic. Flinging a fireball makes you so bold that none dare challenge your might? Can every War Wizard truly be so utterly brash?
Ditto the Knights and Highknights, although their arrogance is more forvigable, since El and co. technically are the wrongdoers and the Knights technically are just "following" orders. The problem I have isn't that they persue El because they have to; it's the attitude they have when they do (much like the War Mages, very hot-headed, very brash, and almost always dishonorably done, even though these are knights we're talking about! Surely not all, but SOME at least should hold to their honor, yeah?)

I think my issue here is that this isn't unique to Elminster Must Die - It's true of most Ed books: That is, the mages are all over-confident and the only characters that ever seem to have any sense of "honor" or "decency" are the main characters, and the main characters alone.


ALL that said, I still look forward to the rest of the book, and I'm sure I'll read the following ones to come. Nitpicking aside, I do still enjoy tales of everyone's favorite Sage of Shadowdale (and most importantly, I must find out what Ed's done to fix this "Mystra is really dead this time" nonsense! )

"Come looking for me, and I will blast you to dust, and then lay waste to all your descendants, ancestors, and the realm you came from, every last tree and stone of it. Why? Well, it's what I usually do."

-Baerendra Riverhand on The Story of Spellfire

Edited by - Neo2151 on 17 Nov 2012 10:45:00
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2012 :  02:32:34  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

You're right about the War Wizards. With an abundance of incompetent fools wrongly named the War Wizards, it's no wonder Cormyr is falling into pieces.

Every beginning has an end.
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2012 :  06:57:14  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No kidding. They are a disgrace to Vangey and the old gang.
Though Ed has always seemed to enjoy killing off war wizards for some reason. But even so with their present attrition rate I wonder how the organisation can expect to survive.
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Scout
Acolyte

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2013 :  05:47:37  Show Profile Send Scout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looking at the dates of these posts I see I am late to the party, but I wanted to say that I agree with this statement...
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

...Though I really feel sad for El, and specially for the Simbul. I'm used to seeing her blasting Red Wizards and anyone foolish enough to mess with her, not to her 'begging....'


... seeing El, Storm and The Simbul in this condition really makes me feel bad for them.

Kinda reminds me of the reality of age...
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