Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 Adventuring
 Gnomes in the realms
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore

1078 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2020 :  18:38:29  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

I played an Illusionist for decades...and True Seeing is not really a problem.

True Seeing is good against Illusion, but Phantasms are quasi-real and still hurt you even if you know what they are. Aside from that, if someone has True Seeing, it can be countered with Dispel Magic...and not many individuals have multiple True Seeing spells memorized.

After 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D, Illusions took quite a beating as far as what they could do...and so it did indeed become harder to use Illusion for what was possible before.

The trade off after 1e was that Illusionists had access to spells they hadn't had before; so their power actually increased over all as they could then use 8th and 9th level spells.

Playing 1e as long as I did, Dalor Darden was a very good Illusionist; but honestly he was much better off when I went from only being an Illusionist to being a Magic-User as well.



Yes!! Quasi-real indeed. That's why I love Illusion and Shadow based Illusion spells. They know its fake but it still damages them in some way. If you're a master Illusionist, with Prestige classes that focus on shadow conjuration and evocation, then you can bring your Phantasms to 99% believability, high damage, etc... If a Master Illusionist was also a Mage-Killer, as per the Mage Killer PrC in 3.5, then you have yourself a Master Assassin... add a Shadow based PrC (there are many in 3.5) and you have an illusionist that is 99% shadow effective, on top of being a mage-killer, specialized at slaying other arcane casters.

I love it!

CEV

Edited by - Copper Elven Vampire on 26 Jan 2020 18:40:48
Go to Top of Page

Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
883 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2020 :  15:22:38  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message
Master illusionists would be outstanding training simulators for mercenary companies and armies. A cadet can feel the danger of fighting Klauth and getting munched to bloody pulp without the actual violence.
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore

1078 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2020 :  06:31:23  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

Master illusionists would be outstanding training simulators for mercenary companies and armies. A cadet can feel the danger of fighting Klauth and getting munched to bloody pulp without the actual violence.



master of Baravar indeed.
Go to Top of Page

Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
883 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2020 :  10:54:35  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

Master illusionists would be outstanding training simulators for mercenary companies and armies. A cadet can feel the danger of fighting Klauth and getting munched to bloody pulp without the actual violence.



master of Baravar indeed.


Baravar can get downright nasty if you tick him off. He is every bit as serious as Gaerdal Ironhand when it comes to protecting gnomes. The only difference is Baravar is more flexible with his tactics.
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore

1078 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2020 :  15:46:29  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

Master illusionists would be outstanding training simulators for mercenary companies and armies. A cadet can feel the danger of fighting Klauth and getting munched to bloody pulp without the actual violence.



master of Baravar indeed.


Baravar can get downright nasty if you tick him off. He is every bit as serious as Gaerdal Ironhand when it comes to protecting gnomes. The only difference is Baravar is more flexible with his tactics.



Baravar is also more adept at illusions and trickery than even Garl Glittergold. (who is awesome unto himself.)

He seems to me to be more protective of gnomish secrets and hidden things. One of my favorite demi-human deities indeed. I imagine a "Shadowcloak" of Baravar to be the exemplar figure of protecting the hidden secrets of gnome ancestry.

It is said in Faerun that Gnomes first learned magic from the elves after they won freedom from the ancient Netherese. They Learned Illusion and the sub-school of Shadow first and mastered it beyond the expectations of the elves. I believe that is canon.
Go to Top of Page

Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
883 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2020 :  22:46:57  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
Baravar is also more adept at illusions and trickery than even Garl Glittergold. (who is awesome unto himself.)

He seems to me to be more protective of gnomish secrets and hidden things. One of my favorite demi-human deities indeed. I imagine a "Shadowcloak" of Baravar to be the exemplar figure of protecting the hidden secrets of gnome ancestry.

It is said in Faerun that Gnomes first learned magic from the elves after they won freedom from the ancient Netherese. They Learned Illusion and the sub-school of Shadow first and mastered it beyond the expectations of the elves. I believe that is canon.



Rilmohx Sha-Quessir is the gnome who browsed the Nether Scrolls and passed the knowledge of illusions to gnomes.
Go to Top of Page

LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1477 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2020 :  04:06:00  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message
She doomed the entire gnomish magical profession. Truly, the gnome who chose Illusion as his prohibited school must be the pimply nerd equivalent to the illusionist's jerk jock.
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore

1078 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2020 :  17:18:53  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

She doomed the entire gnomish magical profession. Truly, the gnome who chose Illusion as his prohibited school must be the pimply nerd equivalent to the illusionist's jerk jock.



lol
Go to Top of Page

TBeholder
Great Reader

2378 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2020 :  16:33:38  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

I played an Illusionist for decades...and True Seeing is not really a problem.

True Seeing is good against Illusion, but Phantasms are quasi-real and still hurt you even if you know what they are.

Or "still scary" (in case of phantasmal killer).
Hmm. How would phantasmal mists (from Dragon) work vs. true seeing?
If it still creates audio and tactile hallucination of critters, but now cannot show plain illusory enemies, this may turn nuisance into Ravenloft grade spookiness. "You hear something slithers by behind you and bumps your elbow. You turn, but see only more of this strange fog swirling away. You feel something bites your ankle."

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
Go to Top of Page

TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1289 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2020 :  23:33:19  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

Master illusionists would be outstanding training simulators for mercenary companies and armies. A cadet can feel the danger of fighting Klauth and getting munched to bloody pulp without the actual violence.



There is a fighter in my campaign that did exactly that when he retired and starting training others. The illusionist involved is actually an illusionist/thief and she provides the same service to the local thieves guild (that is a long tale in and of itself).

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore

1078 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2020 :  15:15:23  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

Master illusionists would be outstanding training simulators for mercenary companies and armies. A cadet can feel the danger of fighting Klauth and getting munched to bloody pulp without the actual violence.



There is a fighter in my campaign that did exactly that when he retired and starting training others. The illusionist involved is actually an illusionist/thief and she provides the same service to the local thieves guild (that is a long tale in and of itself).



Sounds very cool.
Go to Top of Page

Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
883 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2020 :  03:25:06  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

Please list everything you've ever heard From ethnic revolutions to enslavement by the Drow or the Grey Dwarves.

The Gnomes have a wonderful trickster deity. Not Garl, but his better at such things. Is it Baravar Cloakshadow?

Same with the Dwarves... Vergadain right?



The Netherese created spriggans from enslaved rock gnomes. Concerning ethnic revolutions or enslavement by drow or duergar, I would concentrate on svirfneblin. Here my knowledge is scant. My main recollection is the drow of Menzoberranzan trashing Blingdenstone as payback for the deep gnomes helping Mithril Hall at the battle of Keeper's Dale.
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore

1078 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2020 :  00:17:24  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

Please list everything you've ever heard From ethnic revolutions to enslavement by the Drow or the Grey Dwarves.

The Gnomes have a wonderful trickster deity. Not Garl, but his better at such things. Is it Baravar Cloakshadow?

Same with the Dwarves... Vergadain right?



The Netherese created spriggans from enslaved rock gnomes. Concerning ethnic revolutions or enslavement by drow or duergar, I would concentrate on svirfneblin. Here my knowledge is scant. My main recollection is the drow of Menzoberranzan trashing Blingdenstone as payback for the deep gnomes helping Mithril Hall at the battle of Keeper's Dale.



I doubt a Hoodwinker would be a Deepgnome. It could happen, but very unlikely.
Go to Top of Page

Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
883 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2020 :  06:23:34  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

Please list everything you've ever heard From ethnic revolutions to enslavement by the Drow or the Grey Dwarves.

The Gnomes have a wonderful trickster deity. Not Garl, but his better at such things. Is it Baravar Cloakshadow?

Same with the Dwarves... Vergadain right?



The Netherese created spriggans from enslaved rock gnomes. Concerning ethnic revolutions or enslavement by drow or duergar, I would concentrate on svirfneblin. Here my knowledge is scant. My main recollection is the drow of Menzoberranzan trashing Blingdenstone as payback for the deep gnomes helping Mithril Hall at the battle of Keeper's Dale.



I doubt a Hoodwinker would be a Deepgnome. It could happen, but very unlikely.



I was focusing on the sentence "Please list everything you've ever heard From ethnic revolutions to enslavement by the Drow or the Grey Dwarves." and was not thinking about Hoodwinkers. That said, I agree Hoodwinkers would not be nearly as plentiful among deep gnomes as among surface gnomes.
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore

1078 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2020 :  02:55:27  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message
A True Hoodwinker would never even be noticed. Like an assassin you'd never see them coming. A Hoodwinkers own mother couldn't pick out their child. You are anonymous. You are illusion. You are EVERYONE and ANYONE!!
Go to Top of Page

cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2285 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2020 :  01:47:24  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message
Master Copper Elven Vampire,

Though I know you are banned under this username, proper, I know you've created other usernames (at least one), so I'll respond with the understanding that you likely are reading this:

quote:
I understand this... that is moot. Vergadain is a rogue beside or possibly because of coin. Vergadain could never hold a rogue title unless he had worshippers that were of that like. A Dwarven rogue would most likely follow Vergadain over the more serious battle gods or deities of invention or secrets.


You're using moot in one of two ways: that the information from Master Lord of Bones regarding Vergadain is debatable (which, perhaps the third sentence could be argued as such, but I saw no argument, rather a dismissal, which smacks of an unsound argument considered and if so, wisely left behind), or it was connotatively dismissive without a reason. I'm curious, in the event you are still on the site and responding to yourself, if you have a reasoned argument. Do you?

As it stands, I feel that what Master Lord of Bones responded with was within the constraints of your criteria, unless I am missing something?

Best regards,



Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2020 :  02:37:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
Okay, NO. We do not want ArchCEV back here again, under any name. I'm locking this and his other threads -- anyone that wants to communicate with him can find him some other way.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2024 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000