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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7132 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2017 :  23:18:28  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lol, TBeholder, quit pointing out that we kinda discussed this years ago. That's not fun! (well maybe it is).

BTW, on the "long lived races" idea... one thing I kind of came across by accident recently is the 3.5e entry of eldritch giants which says "Eldritch giants have incredible life spans and can live to be more than 3,000 years old". Now, granted, this giant didn't exist back when Annam was "thought up", but its definitely not a race that he fathered. One thought that recently came in my head was "what if" Annam is actually an ascended mortal eldritch giant? Perhaps he killed an ice primordial, a stone primordial, a fire primordial, an air primordial, a storm primordial.... and then ascended using the "energy" he had drawn from them. Then maybe he expended power that he'd acquired from these primordials to create races.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sfdragon
Great Reader

2209 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2017 :  05:33:11  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
yeah tbeholder, we dont want to bring out from those threads about the dumb jhammdathans had it coming when the elves wiped their cites out, killing every last man, woman and child for their genocidal crimes against the elves....
and then have some ( insert word here Im lost on it atm) start to defend jhaamdath and condem the elves for the genocide ( guilty and the innocent alike) and
start justifing their comments stating that the elves didnt have to kill them off and could have just left that forest to find new homes comments...

btw the only reply to that type of person is to state if someone comes to burn down your home, are you just going to leave it and go find a new one, or are you going to fight for it?

anyway.. moving on, jhaamdath sucks( I hate it if you cant tell) and it was doomed to either fall on its own sword or the swords of its neighbors.


humans in the realms are as bad as the elves when it comes to stupid decisions taht are made without thought in the long run of things.

and moradin knows that some of the dwarvish decisions aren't all that bright either

oh great guess I went at brought one here didnt I

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234

Edited by - sfdragon on 30 Dec 2017 05:42:43
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3166 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2017 :  18:31:59  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Jhaamdath was different at least, though really, there is no major difference between "magocracy" and "psiocracy" except for a word.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1841 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2017 :  19:36:15  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think that all such threads forget one basic thing, elves are envied and despised throughout Toril and Realmspace and the Planes beyond. That's canon.

They are constantly in defense mode. Now, sometimes they go a bit overboard and wipe out a continent or two in their over-zealous response, but can you blame them?

Even the many elf vs. elf wars were actually elf vs. devil-corrupted-elf wars. Or demon. Or whoever.

Add to this that they are losing and have been for as long as FR has existed - set upon from all sides by hordes of humans (who want to screw their pretty daughters and cut down their lovely trees) and humanoids who want pretty much the same.

Despite this, they come back again and again to their default "lets have peace." Stance, which invariably gets them killed or driven off. Did creating Evermeet kill millions unintentionally? Yes? Still, the only reason it was created was to hide or "Retreat" from the enemies on the mainland.

I would love to see a novel series where the elves go wild and start killing the hell out of everyone in their path. You want to cut down my tree? F-you - I'll cut you down instead. And I don't mean a couple little skirmishes around a little forest from green elves. I mean an army like the one that went after Myth Drannor stepping up and driving the humans out of Sembia or something. That would be epic.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3166 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2017 :  21:00:50  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage


I would love to see a novel series where the elves go wild and start killing the hell out of everyone in their path. You want to cut down my tree? F-you - I'll cut you down instead. And I don't mean a couple little skirmishes around a little forest from green elves. I mean an army like the one that went after Myth Drannor stepping up and driving the humans out of Sembia or something. That would be epic.


-The only Forgotten Realms campaign I ever played in had this as an early plot point. Corrupt woodcutters in Tethyr were framing Elves for the deaths of innocent humans and were framing Humans for the deaths of innocent Elves, basically starting to instigate a genocide that our party had a hand in stopping.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1841 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2017 :  23:26:59  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kinda, but I would want the elves to wipe out Tethyr
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1655 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2017 :  00:01:45  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Lol, TBeholder, quit pointing out that we kinda discussed this years ago. That's not fun! (well maybe it is).

I know we are walking in circles either way - but we could at least try to walk in larger circles.
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

anyway.. moving on, jhaamdath sucks( I hate it if you cant tell)

See, this sort of remarks can make people think you joined during 3.x era.

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

I think that all such threads forget one basic thing, elves are envied and despised throughout Toril and Realmspace and the Planes beyond. That's canon.

Yup. It's amazing how there are various human peoples who barely can agree on anything at all - let alone vastly different creatures - and one of the few things on which most of them somehow managed to agree is that the elves are arrogant, snobbish, narcissistic jerks. A little miracle of the Multiverse.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 31 Dec 2017 00:05:30
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2935 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2017 :  00:18:34  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage


They are constantly in defense mode. Now, sometimes they go a bit overboard and wipe out a continent or two in their over-zealous response, but can you blame them?


I guess this is sarcasm, but yes, it's only right to blame them. Even taking Evermeet as an example, setting aside all arguable magical consequences or whatever (which they might or might not have been aware of), when you rip a continet apart, bad things happen. The elves just rolled with it.

That said, having a character or group of character do some really nasty stuff in a story, and then using some assumed threat (and remember that back when they created Evermeet, the elves were among the rulers of Faerun, the only perceived threat were some groups of dark elves) or difficult past as an excuse to say that they're actually free of responsibility is IMO just cheap storytelling. I wouldn't want more of that in the Realms.

quote:
Even the many elf vs. elf wars were actually elf vs. devil-corrupted-elf wars. Or demon. Or whoever.


The Crown Wars--the largest among those wars--weren't, they only became anything close to that towards the end, and even then it was only the rulers of Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and their lackeys to be corrupted, not the random people.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1841 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2017 :  06:26:41  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage


They are constantly in defense mode. Now, sometimes they go a bit overboard and wipe out a continent or two in their over-zealous response, but can you blame them?


I guess this is sarcasm, but yes, it's only right to blame them. Even taking Evermeet as an example, setting aside all arguable magical consequences or whatever (which they might or might not have been aware of), when you rip a continet apart, bad things happen. The elves just rolled with it.

That said, having a character or group of character do some really nasty stuff in a story, and then using some assumed threat (and remember that back when they created Evermeet, the elves were among the rulers of Faerun, the only perceived threat were some groups of dark elves) or difficult past as an excuse to say that they're actually free of responsibility is IMO just cheap storytelling. I wouldn't want more of that in the Realms.

quote:
Even the many elf vs. elf wars were actually elf vs. devil-corrupted-elf wars. Or demon. Or whoever.


The Crown Wars--the largest among those wars--weren't, they only became anything close to that towards the end, and even then it was only the rulers of Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and their lackeys to be corrupted, not the random people.




All of the crown wars were the result of Planar influence:

First the Vyshaantar's aggression a la Malkazid

Second Ilythiir, an entire race of dark elves tainted by demons.

Third, Back to the Vyshaantar aggression

Fourth, Back to Ilythiir (revenge for Killing Storms)

Fifth, Back to the Vyshaantar (after they were called out by the Elven Court)

The only ones we know of to be corrupted directly were the rulers and the high mages... but I doubt that the corruption ended there. If you embrace devilish power at a systemic level you would spread it out think body snatchers :)...


As far as cheap storytelling goes, I think literally ALL the history we have for the realms in ancient times is cheap story telling. Think about it - they had these giant gaps of time black and filled em in with ... War 1 war 2 war 3 war 4 war 5. Then people took that and ran with it and made one or two interesting stories but mostly its pretty much garbage.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2935 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2017 :  13:40:26  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage


They are constantly in defense mode. Now, sometimes they go a bit overboard and wipe out a continent or two in their over-zealous response, but can you blame them?


I guess this is sarcasm, but yes, it's only right to blame them. Even taking Evermeet as an example, setting aside all arguable magical consequences or whatever (which they might or might not have been aware of), when you rip a continet apart, bad things happen. The elves just rolled with it.

That said, having a character or group of character do some really nasty stuff in a story, and then using some assumed threat (and remember that back when they created Evermeet, the elves were among the rulers of Faerun, the only perceived threat were some groups of dark elves) or difficult past as an excuse to say that they're actually free of responsibility is IMO just cheap storytelling. I wouldn't want more of that in the Realms.

quote:
Even the many elf vs. elf wars were actually elf vs. devil-corrupted-elf wars. Or demon. Or whoever.


The Crown Wars--the largest among those wars--weren't, they only became anything close to that towards the end, and even then it was only the rulers of Ilythiir and Aryvandaar and their lackeys to be corrupted, not the random people.




All of the crown wars were the result of Planar influence:

First the Vyshaantar's aggression a la Malkazid

Second Ilythiir, an entire race of dark elves tainted by demons.

Third, Back to the Vyshaantar aggression

Fourth, Back to Ilythiir (revenge for Killing Storms)

Fifth, Back to the Vyshaantar (after they were called out by the Elven Court)

The only ones we know of to be corrupted directly were the rulers and the high mages... but I doubt that the corruption ended there. If you embrace devilish power at a systemic level you would spread it out think body snatchers :)...


Your random farmer or worker wasn't corrupted, simply because the corruption stemmed from accepting a pact with those outsiders, or directly mating with them. I honestly doubt that commoners had anything to do with that (or even had any idea about how to make a pact with a demon).

Besides, the planar influence didn't come on its own. Those rulers/mages/priests summoned those demons seeking that kind of pact. They definitely brought it upon themselves.

quote:
As far as cheap storytelling goes, I think literally ALL the history we have for the realms in ancient times is cheap story telling. Think about it - they had these giant gaps of time black and filled em in with ... War 1 war 2 war 3 war 4 war 5. Then people took that and ran with it and made one or two interesting stories but mostly its pretty much garbage.



That's because that part of Faerun's history is mostly for background, and for an explanation of the status quo. It's not storytelling, more like little snippets of the past--even in Evermeet we only see that in very broad strokes. Besides, that's more vague than cheap. Elves being immune to responsibility (especially when hubris made them blind to the consequences of their actions) because "oh, the world is so mean to us" is definitely cheap, tho. They already are *the* Mary-Sue race, we don't need them to become even more so.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 31 Dec 2017 13:44:50
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore

Netherlands
1249 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2017 :  14:37:37  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have always envied Corellon, because he is opposed by many but keeps besting them throughout the ages with style. He elevates the best parts of high civilization, i.e. the crafts, wizardry and warfare, to heights of perfection that enable him a graceful solution to any problem.

His hubris gets him in trouble, but he makes no empty promises.

My campaign sketches

Druidic Groves

Creature Feature: Giant Spiders
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1841 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2018 :  05:26:28  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

Your random farmer or worker wasn't corrupted, simply because the corruption stemmed from accepting a pact with those outsiders, or directly mating with them. I honestly doubt that commoners had anything to do with that (or even had any idea about how to make a pact with a demon).

Besides, the planar influence didn't come on its own. Those rulers/mages/priests summoned those demons seeking that kind of pact. They definitely brought it upon themselves.




That is all assumption. If I am a corrupted king it would be in my interests that the lay people are also corrupted, lest there be a popular uprising. Technically imps and quasits have the ability to corrupt so why not?

Also, we know Malkazid DID come on his own, manipulating people into summoning him or whatever. I think it started more as him magically whispering to the Isovar and then spreading out tendrils of influence from there like the plague

Remember he had a literal army of devils, and probably got the elves to summon each one and make pacts with them 1 by 1 over 1000 years. No telling how far the actual corruption was spread.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31232 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2018 :  05:49:35  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan


Besides, the planar influence didn't come on its own. Those rulers/mages/priests summoned those demons seeking that kind of pact. They definitely brought it upon themselves.



Actually, stories of magic often include tales of those whose corruption was slow and by degrees, and who started off with the best of intentions. Similarly, it's not uncommon for a spellcaster to make a bargain with a fell power, either unaware of who he/she was dealing with, or with the mistaken belief that they were smart enough or strong to come out ahead or at the least unscathed.

All it takes is one fool to make the wrong bargain, and thus give some Lower Plane nastybad a toehold into that society.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 Jan 2018 05:52:13
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2935 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2018 :  11:33:41  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

That is all assumption. If I am a corrupted king it would be in my interests that the lay people are also corrupted, lest there be a popular uprising. Technically imps and quasits have the ability to corrupt so why not?


We know that those who were using those powers did so in secret. There's also nothing that I recall about planar influence spreading to commoners, it was always the most powerful individuals and their lackeys. What I'm saying is that on both sides of those wars the commoners had likely nothing to do with planar powers, but then commoners usually also have little to do with the wars themselves, so that was more like a side note to point out that the war wasn't elves vs, planar-corrupted elves. It was elves vs. elves, with one o both sides led by people who had made pacts with outsiders.

quote:
Also, we know Malkazid DID come on his own, manipulating people into summoning him or whatever. I think it started more as him magically whispering to the Isovar and then spreading out tendrils of influence from there like the plague

Remember he had a literal army of devils, and probably got the elves to summon each one and make pacts with them 1 by 1 over 1000 years. No telling how far the actual corruption was spread.



You're right that Malkizid went to the elves on his own, but would you say that those who made a pact with him should be considered free of guilt just for that?

For all their assumed experience and foresight, the elves have a very strong tendency to be extremely carefree about doing stuff that can obviously lead to very nasty consequences. They can indeed be blamed for those mistakes, just like other races can be blamed for theirs.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 01 Jan 2018 13:16:57
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1841 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2018 :  23:21:48  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All I'm saying is there has never been a word published about the lesser elves of those empires. No way to know they were not corrupted as well.

My assumption would be that Malkizid tricked the first 100 or so into their pacts. He of course didn't come out and say "I'm an archdevil and I hate your Gods and through you nasty elvses will burn!" He said, "there are ancient secrets of power that you haven't learned yet... when I fought at corellon's side in so and so battle we did this - be my little buddy and I will teach you! I've looked so long to find one who was worthy, which of course you are" Pride before the fall :P

Then they got the power and were hooked - and probably also magically bound - to him. The only reason what'-his-name from the Last Mythal books chose and Eldarin is because his ancestor in the kiira was bound to tell him the truth that it was possible. I doubt Malk ever did the same "do the ritual like this or you will fail" kind of thing. Once its done, its too late for regrets and they got ahold of another elf soul.

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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2231 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2018 :  21:39:30  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I must be one of the few people in these halls who like elves (though I agree they can be arrogant, and have made some dumb mistakes). But they have always been my favorite race, across fantasy.

And I am probably the only person here who likes Corellon (though he isn't infallible). I don't know why I even came to this thread LOL. Yeah the Descent was a BIG oopie, though ironically it gave us another cool (imo) race, the drow, even if it "damned" them. The CW and the (first) Sundering are not proud moments in elven history, but it doesn't make me despise them. I hate the events, not the race.

Sweet water and light laughter

Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 03 Jan 2018 21:47:49
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1841 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2018 :  21:51:07  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
After a while, FR started messing up the elves, in my opinion. At first, they were obviously the victims - on the run from everyone and only hanging on by their fingernails. Then they came up with the ancient history that basically blames the elves for all their problems with every races, including but not limited to humans, dragons, even the drow. How things got so messed up that the descent of the drow is morally ambiguous is beyond me.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2935 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2018 :  21:59:26  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@The Masked Mage. Yes, we have no official lore about the commoners, but you'd think that the effects of corruption would become evident far before it spread to the majority of the populace, that you'd see some internal conflict worthy of mention. Many commoners could also start to pray to those dark entities out of fear, rather than because they truly mean it, and I wouldn't call that corruption. The idea of a whole people becoming twisted, especially when their gods were watching (and when those very gods are shown to be very heavy handed in handling this sort of stuff) sounds quite far fetched to me.

As for summoning Malkizid, if we use that reasoning then I guess that no one can be ever blamed for that kind of stuff. After all, even the Sethomir ruling house only asked for planar support in fear of and Aryvandaari invasion. Should they be considered guilt-free too?

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I must be one of the few people in these halls who like elves (though I agree they can be arrogant, and have made some dumb mistakes). But they have always been my favorite race, across fantasy.

And I am probably the only person here who likes Corellon (though he isn't infallible). I don't know why I even came to this thread LOL.



I like Corellon and the elves as characters, including their flaws. I don't like narrative that tries to find excuses for them to not take responsibility for their actions.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2935 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2018 :  22:04:19  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

After a while, FR started messing up the elves, in my opinion. At first, they were obviously the victims - on the run from everyone and only hanging on by their fingernails. Then they came up with the ancient history that basically blames the elves for all their problems with every races, including but not limited to humans, dragons, even the drow. How things got so messed up that the descent of the drow is morally ambiguous is beyond me.



Personally, I find this far more compelling, because it offers a more nuanced story rather than reducing races to stereotypes of "always good and right" and "always evil and wrong". The thing is, we know that Ed never does moral absolutes, and we don't know how the story of the elves and drow looked like in his Realms before TSR added lore to it. We do know that Eilistraee is part of his Realms, tho, so I don't find it very likely that he meant the whole drow vs elves matter to be morally black and white.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2231 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2018 :  22:12:23  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I actually think the elves and the Seldarine have been punished for their actions, it's just not as explicitly stated. People (myself included) often mention and/or lament the inactivity of the elven pantheon. What if this stems from the fact they are restricted in what they do (ToT aside) because of historical events/disasters? The elves in turn have seen their empires falls (after the CW), again and again. Yes, some of it was due to their own hubris, but there were outside influences, too. And the Seldarine have only acted at the last minute or when things get really dire because that is the only time they are *permitted* to do so, based on their past actions?

I've just always liked elves (not just in FR). I like their race as a whole, even if there have been individuals I dislike. I can see some reasons why people dislike them, or certain aspects, but I don't understand the all-around hate. Their xenophobia and prejudice are nothing new. All the races are guilty of such things. The elves can just be more...vocal about it. Anyway, I've said my piece. I don't think elf-hate is the scroll for me LOL>

Sweet water and light laughter
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2935 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2018 :  22:30:06  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I actually think the elves and the Seldarine have been punished for their actions, it's just not as explicitly stated. People (myself included) often mention and/or lament the inactivity of the elven pantheon. What if this stems from the fact they are restricted in what they do (ToT aside) because of historical events/disasters? The elves in turn have seen their empires falls (after the CW), again and again. Yes, some of it was due to their own hubris, but there were outside influences, too. And the Seldarine have only acted at the last minute or when things get really dire because that is the only time they are *permitted* to do so, based on their past actions?

I've just always liked elves (not just in FR). I like their race as a whole, even if there have been individuals I dislike. I can see some reasons why people dislike them, or certain aspects, but I don't understand the all-around hate. Their xenophobia and prejudice are nothing new. All the races are guilty of such things. The elves can just be more...vocal about it. Anyway, I've said my piece. I don't think elf-hate is the scroll for me LOL>



I meant to say that I don't think that their hardships should be seen as an excuse for them to not be held responsible of the lives that they have carelessly taken. That's like saying that someone who murdered an innocent person should be forgiven if they had a harsh life. I short, I don't agree with people closing an eye on stuff like the (first) Sundering, or claiming that the elves had all the rights to do it. The elves are just as morally dirty as your next human.

In world, the elves have indeed faced the consequences of their actions, but they have brought most of those tragedies upon themselves (not the Seldarine, tho. They just sit there in their precious Arvandor and do nothing 24/7. Sounds like they're living the good life to me).

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 03 Jan 2018 23:38:32
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
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Posted - 04 Jan 2018 :  04:32:58  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Here's a neither here nor there question, but why wouldn't Elves have the "right" to cast the Sundering? Terra-forming, controlling the weather, all that stuff is somewhat common in the history of the planet among groups from all different races. Nothing as big as the Sundering, no doubt, but using magic to 'adjust' stuff you don't like (as a person, as a group, as a nation, etc.) seems pretty common.

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Irennan
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Italy
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Posted - 04 Jan 2018 :  13:29:00  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-Here's a neither here nor there question, but why wouldn't Elves have the "right" to cast the Sundering? Terra-forming, controlling the weather, all that stuff is somewhat common in the history of the planet among groups from all different races. Nothing as big as the Sundering, no doubt, but using magic to 'adjust' stuff you don't like (as a person, as a group, as a nation, etc.) seems pretty common.



Why would they (or anyone) have any right to obviously unleash a natural cataclysm? As I said before in this thread, even setting aside the side effects of such a spell (that may or may not have been known to them), ripping a continent apart has very obvious consequences.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 04 Jan 2018 :  14:35:07  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-Here's a neither here nor there question, but why wouldn't Elves have the "right" to cast the Sundering? Terra-forming, controlling the weather, all that stuff is somewhat common in the history of the planet among groups from all different races. Nothing as big as the Sundering, no doubt, but using magic to 'adjust' stuff you don't like (as a person, as a group, as a nation, etc.) seems pretty common.



Why would they (or anyone) have any right to obviously unleash a natural cataclysm? As I said before in this thread, even setting aside the side effects of such a spell (that may or may not have been known to them), ripping a continent apart has very obvious consequences.



That wasn't their goal, though. They were trying to raise an island out in the middle of the ocean. Why wouldn't they have the right to create an isolated homeland?

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Lord Karsus
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USA
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Posted - 04 Jan 2018 :  18:48:31  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Here are some groups I can think of that have had an impact on changing the planet in some way:

-Amaunatori priesthood in Elversult (Second sun)
-Calim (creation of the Calim Desert)
-Drow (creation of the Great Rift)
-Elves (various)
-Imaskari Humans (various)
-Memnon (creation of the Calim Desert)
-Mulhorandi Pantheon (creation of the Raurin Desert)
-Netherese Humans (various)
-Netherese Shadovar (reclaiming the Anauroch)
-Phaerimm (creation of the Anauroch Desert)
-Protanther (possible creation of The Great Glacier)
-Thayvian Humans (various)
-Ulutiu(possible creation of The Great Glacier)
-Untheric Pantheon (creation of the Raurin Desert)

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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