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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  05:26:14  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That Polygon thing says Auril has long been associated with the Icewind Dale.

Uh, since when?

And a horror adventure? Even if I had an interest in playing in this area, that alone would turn me away. To each his own and all that, but horror is not what the Realms is about.

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Diffan
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Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  06:26:00  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

That Polygon thing says Auril has long been associated with the Icewind Dale.

Uh, since when?


Wasn't she pretty prominent in the Icewind Dale CRPGs? I thought there was a bit of a sub-plot with followers of her in the Region. Also, I'd expect Frost Giants to pay her homage as well, and they're prevalent in that region too. Maybe because it's always pretty cold and her Domain is Winter/Cold/Ice, etc.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And a horror adventure? Even if I had an interest in playing in this area, that alone would turn me away. To each his own and all that, but horror is not what the Realms is about.



Horror, as we've seen in tons of media, can come in a variety of flavors and styles - many suited to what the Realms has common amounts of.

A Horror adventure of survival against one singular monster that seems to be chasing them or something they have to go up against with limited resources and options can certainly have a horror-vibe similar to those 80's slasher flicks like Friday: the 13th and Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

A Horror adventure involving a small secluded town that you can't escape from and have to face off of the scary -possessed- inhabitants is similar to movies like The Crazies or games like Resident Evil 4. Facing off against hoards of monsters to run away or finally confront what caused the terrible incident. Alternatively, you could use this concept as a sort of Murdering spree conducted by cultists of Bhaal and the PCs have to act as sleuths to find how who these maniacs are and what their purpose is!

A Horror adventure that delves into the Far Realms and has a Cthulhu element to it could certainly be scary. Especially on-board some ship at sea where members of the crew start to disappear!

A Horror adventure in which people of a near-by town (with a ruined abbey to Tymora) start to fall ill, a nearby deserted "plague" ship is blamed for the malady. An important NPC becomes afflicted with this sickness after being found outside and alone, later dies and to the PCs horror becomes the living dead. OF course this is a blatant Vampire/Dracula story but after reading the novel, it was quite a horror story if not super flashy.

Vampires, Liches, Ghosts and Spirits, Goblins (and I mean ones depicted in anime like Goblin Slayer), and other such types of monsters can easily be a catalyst for a Horror-style campaign and these are all very rampant in the Forgotten Realms. Heck you could do a really scary Lycanthrope adventure on some Western Heartlands frontier town - plagued by the beasts of Malar - as they stalk the townsfolk and cut off almost all lines for help.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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lookatroopa
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Netherlands
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Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  09:39:47  Show Profile Send lookatroopa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Funnily enough, it wouldn't be the first horror-themed adventure set in Icewind Dale (see Dungeon 220's King of the Wolves).
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Diffan
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3936 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  12:19:42  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lookatroopa

Funnily enough, it wouldn't be the first horror-themed adventure set in Icewind Dale (see Dungeon 220's King of the Wolves).



Wow, just re-read that adventure and yeeup - cultists of Malar on the move and doing nasty-bad things! That actually looks like a really fun and intriguing adventure to run so thanks for the notice!

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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33623 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  13:51:59  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

That Polygon thing says Auril has long been associated with the Icewind Dale.

Uh, since when?


Wasn't she pretty prominent in the Icewind Dale CRPGs? I thought there was a bit of a sub-plot with followers of her in the Region. Also, I'd expect Frost Giants to pay her homage as well, and they're prevalent in that region too. Maybe because it's always pretty cold and her Domain is Winter/Cold/Ice, etc.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And a horror adventure? Even if I had an interest in playing in this area, that alone would turn me away. To each his own and all that, but horror is not what the Realms is about.



Horror, as we've seen in tons of media, can come in a variety of flavors and styles - many suited to what the Realms has common amounts of.

A Horror adventure of survival against one singular monster that seems to be chasing them or something they have to go up against with limited resources and options can certainly have a horror-vibe similar to those 80's slasher flicks like Friday: the 13th and Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

A Horror adventure involving a small secluded town that you can't escape from and have to face off of the scary -possessed- inhabitants is similar to movies like The Crazies or games like Resident Evil 4. Facing off against hoards of monsters to run away or finally confront what caused the terrible incident. Alternatively, you could use this concept as a sort of Murdering spree conducted by cultists of Bhaal and the PCs have to act as sleuths to find how who these maniacs are and what their purpose is!

A Horror adventure that delves into the Far Realms and has a Cthulhu element to it could certainly be scary. Especially on-board some ship at sea where members of the crew start to disappear!

A Horror adventure in which people of a near-by town (with a ruined abbey to Tymora) start to fall ill, a nearby deserted "plague" ship is blamed for the malady. An important NPC becomes afflicted with this sickness after being found outside and alone, later dies and to the PCs horror becomes the living dead. OF course this is a blatant Vampire/Dracula story but after reading the novel, it was quite a horror story if not super flashy.

Vampires, Liches, Ghosts and Spirits, Goblins (and I mean ones depicted in anime like Goblin Slayer), and other such types of monsters can easily be a catalyst for a Horror-style campaign and these are all very rampant in the Forgotten Realms. Heck you could do a really scary Lycanthrope adventure on some Western Heartlands frontier town - plagued by the beasts of Malar - as they stalk the townsfolk and cut off almost all lines for help.



Just because you can use the Realms for horror doesn't mean it's a good fit. They created an entire separate setting for the horror stuff -- let's keep it there.

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John Daker
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Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  14:09:00  Show Profile Send John Daker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Just because you can use the Realms for horror doesn't mean it's a good fit. They created an entire separate setting for the horror stuff -- let's keep it there.



I disagree wholeheartedly. Many of the fictional scenes and lore details I’ve read in Realms publications over the years are quite horrific. This includes cosmic-evil horror (a la “At the Mountains of Madness,” which seems to be one of the new adventure’s inspirations) and body horror (a la “The Thing,” another obvious touchstone for the new adventure). Both styles of horror are prominent in works by numerous FR authors, including Ed Greenwood.

I sympathize with the desire to keep the Realms distinct from other settings, but that doesn’t mean only one kind of story should be told there. Quite the opposite! Just because horror has less frequently been the dominant tone for adventure modules in the Realms doesn’t mean it’s a bad fit for the setting.

And anyway, there are precedents for FR horror modules going all the way back, for example Nightmare Keep. Of course there will be high fantasy mixed with the horror tropes here too. The Realms isn’t as narrow as you seem to suggest.

Will the new adventure be any good? That remains to be seen. Is it thematically or generically unsuitable for the Realms? Absolutely not.
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  16:29:14  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't say I've read all of the Realms material in existence, but none of the stuff I've read -- including most of Ed's stuff -- had horror in it.

You are correct that the Realms has room for lots of types of stories... But that doesn't mean that another genre should just be stuffed in there.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Jun 2020 16:30:46
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sleyvas
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Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  16:58:28  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lookatroopa

Funnily enough, it wouldn't be the first horror-themed adventure set in Icewind Dale (see Dungeon 220's King of the Wolves).



Thanks for the heads up. I don't recall that one and will go take a look. To note, the editorial in that issue is from the author and in it he says that the story concept came from Chris Perkins... and since Chris is mentioned as doing quotes in some of the articles about Rime of the Frostmaiden there may be links.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Diffan
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USA
3936 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  23:01:05  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Considering that the Forgotten Realms has been a "kitchen sink" style setting for some decades now - including all manner of cultures that are reminiscent of Vikings, European Knights, Wizards, Shamanistic magic, Ninja and Samurai, Spirit and Land Magic, Psionic and Far Realms weird science (including Spelljammer), portals to other worlds, Pirates (both Sea and Sky) that use Firearms - I don't see how yet another genre like Horror can't find a nichè within the diverse setting.

Places like Damara and Vaasa are exciting and "gothic" in style plus have the Carpathian style similar to old Wallachia/Transylvania. Easy place to put classic horrors such as Vampires, Werewolves, and Liches with hordes of the Living Dead. Thay is another place that offers a similar "undead" centric theme to use for a horror game. I've always liked the frontier areas for survival horror type games - including the North, the Moonsea, and the further reaches of Cormyr myself.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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keftiu
Senior Scribe

376 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  23:17:11  Show Profile Send keftiu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

Considering that the Forgotten Realms has been a "kitchen sink" style setting for some decades now - including all manner of cultures that are reminiscent of Vikings, European Knights, Wizards, Shamanistic magic, Ninja and Samurai, Spirit and Land Magic, Psionic and Far Realms weird science (including Spelljammer), portals to other worlds, Pirates (both Sea and Sky) that use Firearms - I don't see how yet another genre like Horror can't find a nichè within the diverse setting.

Places like Damara and Vaasa are exciting and "gothic" in style plus have the Carpathian style similar to old Wallachia/Transylvania. Easy place to put classic horrors such as Vampires, Werewolves, and Liches with hordes of the Living Dead. Thay is another place that offers a similar "undead" centric theme to use for a horror game. I've always liked the frontier areas for survival horror type games - including the North, the Moonsea, and the further reaches of Cormyr myself.



Funnily enough, one of the stories I hold dearest in the Realms is The Rose Window, a horror short from one of the "Realms of..." anthologies.

4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms.
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PattPlays
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Posted - 20 Jun 2020 :  10:58:45  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You gotta remember the simplicity of the design team heads nowadays.
"Alice in wonderland in the underdark" > Out of the abyss
"At the mountains of madness in the icewind dale" >this

:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, RIP Pluto: :IRC lives:


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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 20 Jun 2020 :  23:44:37  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Three of the four Citadels series books I'd say was horror, with Sentinelspire being the exception. All of the Dungeons series books. Bloodwalk and Frostfell from the Wizards series definitely could be as well.

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RealmProtector
Acolyte

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2020 :  00:10:24  Show Profile Send RealmProtector a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-Three of the four Citadels series books I'd say was horror, with Sentinelspire being the exception. All of the Dungeons series books. Bloodwalk and Frostfell from the Wizards series definitely could be as well.



As well as the Cleric Quintet, from the Chaos Curse to the Vampire that was a great horror series! Also a couple short stories in the anthologies were defiantly horror thinking of Jander Sunstar. Horror in the realms is fine by me, I for one will be picking this book up if anything to read how they wove the horror into the story. I'm a huge COC fan anyway.

They say that life's a carousel spinning back you gotta ride it well, the world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams it's Heaven and Hell
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 23 Jun 2020 :  03:37:52  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I guess we have different definitions of horror. I can only think of one or two things that I've read that I would even consider close to being horror.

That said, though, just because the setting has had horror tales before doesn't make it a good fit. We also had Once Around the Realms.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 23 Jun 2020 03:38:23
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Baltas
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Poland
717 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2020 :  21:43:01  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It would be great for the game to take place in Sossal and the Great Glacier instead, seeing Auril is worshiped there visibly, and has influence there, with Iyraclea being specifically active there.

Especially that Sossal needs to be more fleshed out.

Edited by - Baltas on 01 Jul 2020 22:03:00
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sleyvas
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Posted - 01 Jul 2020 :  22:28:20  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wonder if they'll try to link this adventure and the chult one via the ring of winter and artus cimber

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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keftiu
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376 Posts

Posted - 02 Jul 2020 :  00:11:19  Show Profile Send keftiu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Wonder if they'll try to link this adventure and the chult one via the ring of winter and artus cimber



He was an Exarch of Auril’s back in 4e, which also suggested she might be on some kind of path to being less evil.

4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms.
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Baltas
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Poland
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Posted - 02 Jul 2020 :  00:29:48  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
He was an Exarch of Auril’s back in 4e, which also suggested she might be on some kind of path to being less evil.



From what it seems this plotline was abandoned, with Auril and the Queen of Air and Darkness being unmerged in canon from what it seems, with Ed suggesting the Queen of Air and Darkness possibly impersonated Auril when asked about these retcons, Ed himself thinking they will be established as just working together:
https://twitter.com/CineastBenRowe/status/1228217386689413120
https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1228370295649599488

As part of the storyline of Auril being less malicious, was with Silvanus destroying the black gem of Tharizdun that was corrupting Auril - without it, she was still evil, but not pure evil, and redeemable.

Although a very slim alternate possibility, that this is a misdirection, and Auril lacking the Black Diamond in her symbol (which she still had in 4E), might mean she indeed is free of Tharizdun/The Dark God's influence, and that other info is a misdirection from WoTC.

With Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden possibly being about fully freeing Auril from Tharizdun's/The Dark God's influence with Artus Cimber's help.
With the horror aspect will be from servants of Tharizdun - and Auril will possibly try to free him, or possibly take (some of) his power for herself (like Asmodeus).

Again though, it is a slim possibility, I think.

Edited by - Baltas on 02 Jul 2020 00:48:30
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sleyvas
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Posted - 02 Jul 2020 :  01:17:58  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, so if Auril had actually disappeared during the spellplague and we ACTUALLY had the Raven Queen in her spot during the spellplague to the sundering rough timeframe, then Auril is yet another "returning" god along with Talos.

I'm kind of chalking that up on my board of "if that's true, where did Auril go... is she available to have been in Abeir?".

I do want to keep the lore of Aurilandur though, because I'd love to play with the storyline that Aurilandur (as Auril) was the frost sprite queen, meanwhile there is another god, Rellavar Danuvien, who is "the frost sprite king". Canonically, Rellavar has never been mentioned in FR I don't believe, but the idea going through my head is that the two were involved somehow (as in maybe they were lovers, maybe she's his mother, maybe she's his sister, maybe he just overthrew her, etc...). To note, Rellavar is mentioned in MToF, so he is canon for 5e as an elven deity.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
717 Posts

Posted - 02 Jul 2020 :  03:14:00  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yup, even if the Queen of Air and Darkness and Auril are separate, it would be neat to keep the Aurilandür backstory, seeing how it even fit with Auril's rather "fey" behavior, and her being an embodiment of nature, as many fey are, and even being noted as exiled from Arborea. And how it actually developed her more than just (seemingly/falsely) being the the Queen of Air and Darkness, seeing as you mentioned it elaborated on her connection to Rellavar Danuvien.
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