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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2021 :  04:54:01  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Coming from a family of whom some members are alcohol/liquor connoisseurs (you should see my brother's collection, for one; he's got whisky, mead, cider, you name it), I got to thinking about this. Which humanoid races likely brew and consume which types of alcohol the most. Here's what I was thinking, based by the core races in the Realms.

Humans: Most likely beer and ale, with pockets of other beverages depending on region.

Dwarves: Mead most of all, followed by ale.

Elves: Wine most of all. Maybe some brandy as well.

Gnomes: These guys I see making stronger spirits like whisky or gin.

Halflings: Can't say for certain, but I'd argue for cider being the brew these guys specialize in above all else.

Orcs: Most likely if these brutes make any liquor of their own, it's likely crude stuff akin to Pruno that's made by real-life prisoners, or moonshine. Otherwise, they likely get their liquor by looting from their victims.

Goblinoids: Similar to above, at least as far as looting.

Any ideas, folks?

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sleyvas
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USA
10836 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2021 :  13:37:22  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Galuf,

I hope you don't mind if I expand this into some unusual bestial humanoid races for fun? I'm not exactly the best to understand the difference between brandy/rum/ale/mead, etc.. mind you

Gnolls - malt liquors

Centaurs - Applejack and Pearjack.

Wemics - Catnip mint tea and/or schnapps. Lemongrass and lime gin.

minotaurs - beer and ale. Much like dwarves. They probably consume lots, and probably favor stronger stuff when its available.

Woodland Urskan (brown bear humanoids)- Honey mead. Apple cider. Cherry wine.

Polar Urskan - potato vodka. rhubarb wine. sugar beet rum

tabaxi / leonin - banana wine / beer. Mango and pineapple rums/brandy.

Kercpa - acorn ale. Blackberry, strawberry, and blueberry wines.


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 20 Oct 2021 13:44:52
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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35541 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2021 :  15:25:20  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm fairly certain Ed has said halflings favor cider, but I can't find that reference now -- I apparently failed to add it to my notes.

My minotaur that I played was very fond of beers and ales, but that was partially because I rolled well for starting gold, couldn't spend it on a horse or armor because of the character's size and natural AC, and had a copy of Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog handy.

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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
211 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2021 :  15:50:11  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Orcs strike me as favoring root liquors, i.e. vodka-like concoctions from potatoes, turnips, carrots, and what all.
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Ayrik
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Canada
7516 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2021 :  04:21:38  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can't develop much of a preference for vodka if you have no potatoes to grow, you can't develop much of a preference for beer if you live somewhere too cold and harsh to grow barley/hops/etc.

So I'd argue that orcs favour whatever strong booze they can take from others. In terms of history and racial archetype, they're not known for farming, they're not known as cooks or chemists, their typical intellect and temperament seems unlikely to devise any sort of complex apparatus for brewing and fermenting. Orcs are not subtle, not patient, they won't babysit delicate equipment for weeks or months when they can instead immediately procure ready products from someone else. Orcs are known for eating and drinking things other races consider repulsive and indigestible, so perhaps they could stumble upon some sort of distinctive brew if they let things fester and rot and ferment long enough in a bucket of bloody swamp muck.

Where are dwarves going to get flowers, bees, and honey for manufacturing mead?
Perhaps they can't get enough of the stuff when they visit a human tavern.
But underground stone fortresses seem far more likely to make their alcohols from fermented mushroom/fungus/mold varieties. Sounds disgusting - and maybe it is - but then again they can add all sorts of special minerals or spices to the mix for flavour. "Minerals" might include "mineral oils" or "mineral spirits" - the things we think of as industrial-strength chemical solvents, though probably diluted somewhat - which might help explain phenomenal dwarven natural resistance to toxins, which might help explain why humans who force themselves to somehow drink pungent stout dwarven "ales" tend to end up becoming violently ill.

Elves like growing things. Fruits, nuts, berries, flowers. They might make their "wines" from any combination of these things. Maybe they ferment leaves and petals and tree saps and syrups. With a dash of dancing fairy water. They might even disdain human-style grape juices because - for elven sensibilities - it's too sickeningly sweet, heavy, and unsettling, not unlike humans viewing grape Kool-Aid as a disgusting drink meant for children.
Drow might drink drider milk. Or maybe they entirely abstain from drink - given the constant threat of poison, the constant presence of competitors and assassins waiting to exploit a critical moment of inattention. Though they might also enjoy a good elven vintage, assuming it's aged at least a dozen centuries.

Halflings (and even gnomes) farm anything, eat anything, drink anything. In copious quantity.
They seem to be particularly well known for (and proud of) their cheeses and their chocolates. No doubt they've figured out some way to ferment these things into unique alcoholic beverages. Deceptively potent alcoholic beverages - many humans tend to forget that halflings are as sturdy and resistant vs poisons as their dwarven cousins.

Minotaurs might drink any of the above. As long as it comes in barrels. Although I suspect their "human" palette would have some influence (even though their entire head is non-human, lol).

Yes, any race can (in theory) trade with other races to obtain their beers and wines and liquors and alcohols. Or to obtain the ingredients they need to make them. But then, that's hardly a "racial heritage" sort of thing they devised themselves, it's more of a "consumer market" catering to demographic segments. Every D&D race has a unique natural "biome" where certain things can grow or cannot grow, where certain resources are available or denied - whatever alcoholic inventions they come up will have to work within those limits. Elven alcohols might invariably be infused with "living" magic, impossible to manufacture properly without it. Dwarven alcohols might in fact be such an artificial "alloy" that the liquid itself destroys magical ingredients dissolved within it and even passively resists all attempts to enchant it.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 21 Oct 2021 05:15:56
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sleyvas
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USA
10836 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2021 :  13:49:13  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just a thought, not all meads are made with honey, and maybe its worth exploring that option for roleplaying purposes. Some are made with agave nectar (same stuff that is used to make tequila), which grows in deserts or hot/arid places with sandy soil. Now, the Shaar isn't exactly a desert.... BUT.... I could see something like agave growing there. So, the dwarves of the great rift might favor the growing of this, and they might further import it as well (i.e. they grow the "best varieties" at home, but they can't keep up with demand). It obviously would be something we'd be making up just for the purpose of saying "they like to make mead". Hill dwarves on the other hand might have lots of bee hives in their communities.

I could also definitely see the use of mushrooms as well though, but actually, yeast is a fungus, as are cheese bacteria needed to make cheese. From the wiki on yeast "Yeasts are chemoorganotrophs, as they use organic compounds as a source of energy and do not require sunlight to grow."

So, dwarves would definitely have a source of yeast.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2021 :  15:33:14  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

You can't develop much of a preference for vodka if you have no potatoes to grow, you can't develop much of a preference for beer if you live somewhere too cold and harsh to grow barley/hops/etc.


Believe or not, vodka existed LONG BEFORE potatoes ever made it to the eastern world in reality (Potatoes originated in the Americas, and vodka dates back to pre-Christian Eastern Europe and Russia). It's traditionally made from grain.

quote:
So I'd argue that orcs favour whatever strong booze they can take from others. In terms of history and racial archetype, they're not known for farming, they're not known as cooks or chemists, their typical intellect and temperament seems unlikely to devise any sort of complex apparatus for brewing and fermenting. Orcs are not subtle, not patient, they won't babysit delicate equipment for weeks or months when they can instead immediately procure ready products from someone else. Orcs are known for eating and drinking things other races consider repulsive and indigestible, so perhaps they could stumble upon some sort of distinctive brew if they let things fester and rot and ferment long enough in a bucket of bloody swamp muck.


That's more or less what I was suggesting.

quote:

Drow might drink drider milk. Or maybe they entirely abstain from drink - given the constant threat of poison, the constant presence of competitors and assassins waiting to exploit a critical moment of inattention. Though they might also enjoy a good elven vintage, assuming it's aged at least a dozen centuries.



I take it you haven't read (in a while) novels or sourcebooks where Drow were mentioned drinking wine made from plants native to the Underdark? Such is mentioned in Elaine Cunningham's novels (namely Daughter of the Drow and Tangled Webs) and in the 3rd Edition Underdark supplement.

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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2021 :  15:37:03  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Just a thought, not all meads are made with honey, and maybe its worth exploring that option for roleplaying purposes. Some are made with agave nectar (same stuff that is used to make tequila), which grows in deserts or hot/arid places with sandy soil. Now, the Shaar isn't exactly a desert.... BUT.... I could see something like agave growing there. So, the dwarves of the great rift might favor the growing of this, and they might further import it as well (i.e. they grow the "best varieties" at home, but they can't keep up with demand). It obviously would be something we'd be making up just for the purpose of saying "they like to make mead". Hill dwarves on the other hand might have lots of bee hives in their communities.

I could also definitely see the use of mushrooms as well though, but actually, yeast is a fungus, as are cheese bacteria needed to make cheese. From the wiki on yeast "Yeasts are chemoorganotrophs, as they use organic compounds as a source of energy and do not require sunlight to grow."

So, dwarves would definitely have a source of yeast.



Oh, trust me, I am PLENTY familiar with the agave plant, having used the nectar myself as a substitute for honey at one point, and of course, my brother and his wife having had tequila before (and my dad one time as well).

You have a valid point there concerning yeast, hence why I see them having little to no issue producing their own alcohol, even underground.

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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2021 :  15:44:59  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I'm fairly certain Ed has said halflings favor cider, but I can't find that reference now -- I apparently failed to add it to my notes.



Huh, so I more or less hit that one right on the nose, then?

If you can somehow come across that reference, let us know.

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7516 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2021 :  05:34:10  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
I take it you haven't read (in a while) novels or sourcebooks where Drow were mentioned drinking wine made from plants native to the Underdark? Such is mentioned in Elaine Cunningham's novels (namely Daughter of the Drow and Tangled Webs) and in the 3rd Edition Underdark supplement.


Sorry, no. I'm not particularly fond of elves, not interested in drow, and not fascinated in Drizzt. I did read the first Drizzt novel trilogies and all the 2E sourcebooks I could get my hands on. Decades ago. I strictly avoided the 3E dark elf craze, along with all the 3E fashionistas who followed it.

My above commentary on drow alcohols was intended to be humourous/sarcastic and to provoke the reader's thought processes into considering my general arguments within a larger context.

[/Ayrik]
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Marc
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634 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2021 :  20:54:39  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For orcs, consider some sources that have sugar, so probably fermented rothe milk, that or tree sap (like maple)

.
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2134 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2021 :  02:00:16  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Where are dwarves going to get flowers, bees, and honey for manufacturing mead?
Perhaps they can't get enough of the stuff when they visit a human tavern.
But underground stone fortresses seem far more likely to make their alcohols from fermented mushroom/fungus/mold varieties. Sounds disgusting - and maybe it is - but then again they can add all sorts of special minerals or spices to the mix for flavour. "Minerals" might include "mineral oils" or "mineral spirits" - the things we think of as industrial-strength chemical solvents, though probably diluted somewhat - which might help explain phenomenal dwarven natural resistance to toxins, which might help explain why humans who force themselves to somehow drink pungent stout dwarven "ales" tend to end up becoming violently ill.



Curiously enough, dwarves in Dragon Age do brew ales made up of fungus, lichen and moss, that are considered to be undrinkable by non-dwarves, and even dwarves dislike them and prefer the human stuff when available.

On topic, dragonborn seem to share the same weakness against alcohol that true dragons have, so they take watered-down beverages when forced to drink spirits or alcohol. Dragonborn prefer spiced teas and aromatic watersm, and the spices they use usually are way too strong and/or inedible by non-dragonborn.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2021 :  03:17:08  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik


Sorry, no. I'm not particularly fond of elves, not interested in drow, and not fascinated in Drizzt. I did read the first Drizzt novel trilogies and all the 2E sourcebooks I could get my hands on. Decades ago. I strictly avoided the 3E dark elf craze, along with all the 3E fashionistas who followed it.

My above commentary on drow alcohols was intended to be humourous/sarcastic and to provoke the reader's thought processes into considering my general arguments within a larger context.



Ooookay, then.

What about my response in relation to vodka, then?

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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2021 :  03:26:42  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Curiously enough, dwarves in Dragon Age do brew ales made up of fungus, lichen and moss, that are considered to be undrinkable by non-dwarves, and even dwarves dislike them and prefer the human stuff when available.


I remember that part. Maybe that's why Sten (if you have him in your party) - upon first entering Tapster's Tavern in Orzammar - says "Is this some form of mass suicide?"

quote:
On topic, dragonborn seem to share the same weakness against alcohol that true dragons have, so they take watered-down beverages when forced to drink spirits or alcohol. Dragonborn prefer spiced teas and aromatic watersm, and the spices they use usually are way too strong and/or inedible by non-dragonborn.



Interesting. Which novel or sourcebook reveals this?

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
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Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2021 :  03:54:11  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Marc

For orcs, consider some sources that have sugar, so probably fermented rothe milk, that or tree sap (like maple)



Fermented rothe milk, eh? You talking like Blaand or Tarasun?

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2134 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2021 :  05:54:50  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Interesting. Which novel or sourcebook reveals this?



The Brimstone Angels series, by Erin Evans. Is mentioned here and there in the novels, but more specifically in Fire in the Blood, when Mehen gets sick because of a coup of brandy, and in Ashes of the Tyrant, when they go to Djerad Thymar and Mehen warms the human characters about the dragonborn food, as some dishes are made up of stuff humans cannot eat.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 26 Oct 2021 05:58:31
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BenN
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Japan
382 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2021 :  11:39:38  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Drow might drink drider milk.


I suddenly had visions of that scene from Meet The Parents, with Ben Stiller demonstrating how to milk a cat:

https://tenor.com/I6KW.gif

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10836 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2021 :  12:41:01  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BenN

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Drow might drink drider milk.


I suddenly had visions of that scene from Meet The Parents, with Ben Stiller demonstrating how to milk a cat:

https://tenor.com/I6KW.gif





Considering drider breasts come on top of essentially drow female bodies.....

Hmmm, that opens up a rather odd question though. Driders are sterile no? I mean, I don't believe Lolth curses them and allows them to have drider children? So, if they're sterile, would the females be capable of producing milk?

And yes, I know you weren't serious about drider milk... but hey, its out there... I'm just going where this leads.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35541 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2021 :  14:07:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are there female driders?

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10836 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2021 :  19:03:18  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Are there female driders?



Good question in today's woke culture..... let's just say "there were male and female driders". I want to say that in every edition where I've significantly looked I've seen text like the below (so at least until 4e).

From Queen of the Demonweb Pits

22. TEMPLE OF THE TRUE LOLTH: While the characters are opening
the door hidden by the illusion, Lolth will be preparing for their
arrival in her temple. Here to assist her will be 10 giant solifugids
(AC 4, MV 12", HD 6+6, #AT 2 or 1, D grip or 4-16, grip with leg
attack gives +3 on beak attack, beak does damage indicated),
10 giant pedipalpi (AC 2, MV 6", HD 4+4, #AT 3, D 1-8/1-8/2-8,
grip gives automatic hits, poison gas 20' radiusó save vs. poison
or -3 on "to hit" rolls for 1-6 rounds), and 2 driders (AC 3, MV 12",
HD 6+6, hp given below, #AT 1, D 1-4, plus save vs. poison or
paralysis, spells), one male and one female.

The female drider (hp 29) knows the following spells:
Innate, each once per day: clairvoyance, dancing lights,
darkness*, detect lie, detect magic, dispel
magic, faerie fire, know alignment, levitate,
suggestion
First level: bless (C1r, R60', DR 6r), command (C 1s R 10'),
protection from good* (C 4s, DR 21 r)
Second level: hold person (C 5s, R 60', DR 11r), resist fire (C 5s.
DR 7t), silence, 15' radius (C 5s, R 120' DR 14r)
Third level: animate dead (C 1r, R 10'), bestow curse* (C 6s)
Fourth level: cause serious wounds* (C 7s)


The male drider (hp 42) knows the following spells:
Innate, each once per day: dancing lights, darkness*, detect
magic, faerie fire, know alignment, levitate
First level: magic missile (x2, C 1s, R 140'), reduce (C 1s, R 40'
DR 8t), shield (C 1s, DR 4t)
Second level: invisibility (C 2s),stinking cloud (C 2s, R 30', DR
8r)
Third level: fireball (x2, C 3s, R 180'), slow (C 3s, R 170', DR 11r)
Fourth level: fumble (C 4s, R 80', DR 8r) ice storm (C 4s, R 80')
Spell abbreviations used include C (casting time), R (range), DR
(duration), s (segments), r (rounds), t (turns), and an asterisk (*) to
indicate a reversed effect.
These

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader

Colombia
2134 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2021 :  19:16:05  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just to clarify, there were female driders in 4e as well. I remember that because there is an adventure where a mad female drider believes herself an exarch of Lolth.

Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35541 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2021 :  20:04:00  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Huh. For some reason, I thought it was only the males who were subjected to that particular punishment. (Which I still don't understand, as a punishment: "According to our goddess, you're a loser! So we're going to make you more like her, as punishment for being a loser!")

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sleyvas
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USA
10836 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2021 :  23:48:04  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Huh. For some reason, I thought it was only the males who were subjected to that particular punishment. (Which I still don't understand, as a punishment: "According to our goddess, you're a loser! So we're going to make you more like her, as punishment for being a loser!")




One POSSIBLE way to explain it (because yeah, I get the same feeling) is... she was punished in the same way by the leader of the elves. However, SHE worked past it, and she CAN appear in her original form IF SHE WANTS TO.... so these failures can figure out how to get past their own punishment and redeem themselves JUST LIKE HER if they don't like it. Oh, then you have to add "So THERE, nani nani boo boo... stick your head in mushrooroo".

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 26 Oct 2021 23:51:01
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BenN
Senior Scribe

Japan
382 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2021 :  00:02:46  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Drow fondness for drider milk might explain why driders always seem to be pissed off, and hate the drow so much.....
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
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Posted - 27 Oct 2021 :  01:29:56  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BenN

Drow fondness for drider milk might explain why driders always seem to be pissed off, and hate the drow so much.....



How does a drow milk a drider? Sounds extremely dangerous.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35541 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2021 :  03:16:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Huh. For some reason, I thought it was only the males who were subjected to that particular punishment. (Which I still don't understand, as a punishment: "According to our goddess, you're a loser! So we're going to make you more like her, as punishment for being a loser!")




One POSSIBLE way to explain it (because yeah, I get the same feeling) is... she was punished in the same way by the leader of the elves. However, SHE worked past it, and she CAN appear in her original form IF SHE WANTS TO.... so these failures can figure out how to get past their own punishment and redeem themselves JUST LIKE HER if they don't like it. Oh, then you have to add "So THERE, nani nani boo boo... stick your head in mushrooroo".




Yeah, but don't they take a major hit to the mental capacities, when transformed to a drider?

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