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 Under Illefarn 3e conversion
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rabindranath72
Acolyte

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2021 :  08:50:47  Show Profile  Visit rabindranath72's Homepage Send rabindranath72 a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Dear all,
I am planning on running Under Illefarn using 3e (3.0) rules, and I was wondering if anyone had already done a conversion.
I am aware of Eric Boyd's "magnum opus" Under Illefarn Anew, but that material goes way above and beyond of what I need (though I'll definitely borrow hooks and plot ideas). In particular, I am not keen on all the splatbook classes and prestige classes that Mr. Boyd has used, and I don't agree with some conversions (e.g. he converted Redeye the lizard man to a Barbarian, whereas in the source material he is a cleric; I definitely want to make him a cleric). I only want to use the 3.0 core books (PHB, DMG, MM), the FRCS book, and possibly Monsters of Faerun and MM2 (I also have Silver Marches and Lords of Darkness). Looking at the material in Under Illefarn, it looks like pretty much should be convertible straight away, but I thought I'd ask if someone had done it already from way back when 3e was new.

Thanks in advance,
Antonio

Failure is an option

ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1902 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2021 :  15:07:43  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No worries. Different strokes for different folks.

FWIW, I changed Redeye's class because I was trying to split the difference between the original Under Illefarn's write-up (1e) and how he was described in The North boxed set (2e) and how he was described in the FRCS (3e). My reasoning is discussed in the annotated version of UIA in the comments.

Here's the comment of interest:

In N5 Under Illefarn, page 25, Redeye is listed as a N male lizardfolk Clr7 (primarily to give him access to tongues to speak with the PCs). In The North: The Wilderness, page 65, and The North: Daggerford, page 5, he is rumored to have been killed by adventurers and risen as a lich who is now extorting Daggerford for gold. In FRCS (3e), page 224, he is listed as a CE male lizardfolk Bbn11/Chm5 of Talos. I decide to favor the first source in terms of alignment and the last source in terms of his eventual abilities, but introduce a story arc that would explain the alignment transformation, leadership of a mega-tribe, and hunger for metal weapons.

quote:
Originally posted by rabindranath72

Dear all,
I am planning on running Under Illefarn using 3e (3.0) rules, and I was wondering if anyone had already done a conversion.
I am aware of Eric Boyd's "magnum opus" Under Illefarn Anew, but that material goes way above and beyond of what I need (though I'll definitely borrow hooks and plot ideas). In particular, I am not keen on all the splatbook classes and prestige classes that Mr. Boyd has used, and I don't agree with some conversions (e.g. he converted Redeye the lizard man to a Barbarian, whereas in the source material he is a cleric; I definitely want to make him a cleric). I only want to use the 3.0 core books (PHB, DMG, MM), the FRCS book, and possibly Monsters of Faerun and MM2 (I also have Silver Marches and Lords of Darkness). Looking at the material in Under Illefarn, it looks like pretty much should be convertible straight away, but I thought I'd ask if someone had done it already from way back when 3e was new.

Thanks in advance,
Antonio



--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 19 Oct 2021 15:12:00
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rabindranath72
Acolyte

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2021 :  09:00:59  Show Profile  Visit rabindranath72's Homepage Send rabindranath72 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

No worries. Different strokes for different folks.

FWIW, I changed Redeye's class because I was trying to split the difference between the original Under Illefarn's write-up (1e) and how he was described in The North boxed set (2e) and how he was described in the FRCS (3e). My reasoning is discussed in the annotated version of UIA in the comments.

Here's the comment of interest:

In N5 Under Illefarn, page 25, Redeye is listed as a N male lizardfolk Clr7 (primarily to give him access to tongues to speak with the PCs). In The North: The Wilderness, page 65, and The North: Daggerford, page 5, he is rumored to have been killed by adventurers and risen as a lich who is now extorting Daggerford for gold. In FRCS (3e), page 224, he is listed as a CE male lizardfolk Bbn11/Chm5 of Talos. I decide to favor the first source in terms of alignment and the last source in terms of his eventual abilities, but introduce a story arc that would explain the alignment transformation, leadership of a mega-tribe, and hunger for metal weapons.

quote:
Originally posted by rabindranath72

Dear all,
I am planning on running Under Illefarn using 3e (3.0) rules, and I was wondering if anyone had already done a conversion.
I am aware of Eric Boyd's "magnum opus" Under Illefarn Anew, but that material goes way above and beyond of what I need (though I'll definitely borrow hooks and plot ideas). In particular, I am not keen on all the splatbook classes and prestige classes that Mr. Boyd has used, and I don't agree with some conversions (e.g. he converted Redeye the lizard man to a Barbarian, whereas in the source material he is a cleric; I definitely want to make him a cleric). I only want to use the 3.0 core books (PHB, DMG, MM), the FRCS book, and possibly Monsters of Faerun and MM2 (I also have Silver Marches and Lords of Darkness). Looking at the material in Under Illefarn, it looks like pretty much should be convertible straight away, but I thought I'd ask if someone had done it already from way back when 3e was new.

Thanks in advance,
Antonio





Thanks for the detailed explanation! I suspected there must have been an "evolutionary" thinking behind the change, to accommodate both the source and what's reported in the FRCS. The info in the 2e material is interesting, but I don't have any 2e sources to build on. I think I may have an old version of Under Illefarn Anew, is the annotated version available for download?

The plan is to run the material for my kids, but they are quite young, they don't care a lot about mechanics, so everything beyond the core material is really overkill, both for them, and for me (I never liked splatbooks, and always tend to gravitate towards the simplest stuff; even prestige classes leave me a little "cold", so to speak, and even back in the day I allowed them only rarely.)

Thanks,
Antonio

Failure is an option

Edited by - rabindranath72 on 20 Oct 2021 09:02:11
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10836 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2021 :  13:18:19  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rabindranath72

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

No worries. Different strokes for different folks.

FWIW, I changed Redeye's class because I was trying to split the difference between the original Under Illefarn's write-up (1e) and how he was described in The North boxed set (2e) and how he was described in the FRCS (3e). My reasoning is discussed in the annotated version of UIA in the comments.

Here's the comment of interest:

In N5 Under Illefarn, page 25, Redeye is listed as a N male lizardfolk Clr7 (primarily to give him access to tongues to speak with the PCs). In The North: The Wilderness, page 65, and The North: Daggerford, page 5, he is rumored to have been killed by adventurers and risen as a lich who is now extorting Daggerford for gold. In FRCS (3e), page 224, he is listed as a CE male lizardfolk Bbn11/Chm5 of Talos. I decide to favor the first source in terms of alignment and the last source in terms of his eventual abilities, but introduce a story arc that would explain the alignment transformation, leadership of a mega-tribe, and hunger for metal weapons.

quote:
Originally posted by rabindranath72

Dear all,
I am planning on running Under Illefarn using 3e (3.0) rules, and I was wondering if anyone had already done a conversion.
I am aware of Eric Boyd's "magnum opus" Under Illefarn Anew, but that material goes way above and beyond of what I need (though I'll definitely borrow hooks and plot ideas). In particular, I am not keen on all the splatbook classes and prestige classes that Mr. Boyd has used, and I don't agree with some conversions (e.g. he converted Redeye the lizard man to a Barbarian, whereas in the source material he is a cleric; I definitely want to make him a cleric). I only want to use the 3.0 core books (PHB, DMG, MM), the FRCS book, and possibly Monsters of Faerun and MM2 (I also have Silver Marches and Lords of Darkness). Looking at the material in Under Illefarn, it looks like pretty much should be convertible straight away, but I thought I'd ask if someone had done it already from way back when 3e was new.

Thanks in advance,
Antonio





Thanks for the detailed explanation! I suspected there must have been an "evolutionary" thinking behind the change, to accommodate both the source and what's reported in the FRCS. The info in the 2e material is interesting, but I don't have any 2e sources to build on. I think I may have an old version of Under Illefarn Anew, is the annotated version available for download?

The plan is to run the material for my kids, but they are quite young, they don't care a lot about mechanics, so everything beyond the core material is really overkill, both for them, and for me (I never liked splatbooks, and always tend to gravitate towards the simplest stuff; even prestige classes leave me a little "cold", so to speak, and even back in the day I allowed them only rarely.)

Thanks,
Antonio




Yeah, I'm the exact opposite. I love options to put meaningful differences into a character so that the DM doesn't have to make them up on the fly to try and fit what my character view is (because the DM has enough work). That being said, when working with my stepdaughter when she was much younger, I "created my own version" of the game that was on the fly, simple, and more about me making up a story to entertain her while letting her roll dice.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1902 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2021 :  14:20:37  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rabindranath72

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I suspected there must have been an "evolutionary" thinking behind the change, to accommodate both the source and what's reported in the FRCS. The info in the 2e material is interesting, but I don't have any 2e sources to build on. I think I may have an old version of Under Illefarn Anew, is the annotated version available for download?



http://www.candlekeep.com/downloads/UnderIllefarnAnew.pdf
http://www.candlekeep.com/downloads/UnderIllefarnAnewAnnotated.pdf

quote:


The plan is to run the material for my kids, but they are quite young, they don't care a lot about mechanics, so everything beyond the core material is really overkill, both for them, and for me (I never liked splatbooks, and always tend to gravitate towards the simplest stuff; even prestige classes leave me a little "cold", so to speak, and even back in the day I allowed them only rarely.)




I wrote UIA with George for my kids. Great adventure for that.

In general, reversing the "splatbooks" is easy. If they are a fighter 5 / prestige class 4, make them a fighter 9.

Like sleyvas, I prefer making the NPCs as unique as a I can, so I enjoy making use of the full range of published material, but all styles of play are fun.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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rabindranath72
Acolyte

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2021 :  14:10:02  Show Profile  Visit rabindranath72's Homepage Send rabindranath72 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by rabindranath72

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I suspected there must have been an "evolutionary" thinking behind the change, to accommodate both the source and what's reported in the FRCS. The info in the 2e material is interesting, but I don't have any 2e sources to build on. I think I may have an old version of Under Illefarn Anew, is the annotated version available for download?



http://www.candlekeep.com/downloads/UnderIllefarnAnew.pdf
http://www.candlekeep.com/downloads/UnderIllefarnAnewAnnotated.pdf

quote:


The plan is to run the material for my kids, but they are quite young, they don't care a lot about mechanics, so everything beyond the core material is really overkill, both for them, and for me (I never liked splatbooks, and always tend to gravitate towards the simplest stuff; even prestige classes leave me a little "cold", so to speak, and even back in the day I allowed them only rarely.)




I wrote UIA with George for my kids. Great adventure for that.

In general, reversing the "splatbooks" is easy. If they are a fighter 5 / prestige class 4, make them a fighter 9.

Like sleyvas, I prefer making the NPCs as unique as a I can, so I enjoy making use of the full range of published material, but all styles of play are fun.

--Eric


Thanks for the links! I should have thought of looking there

My kids are 11 and 7, the older (son) is playing a Ranger, my daughter his "animal companion" Wolf. We started with the Castle Mistamere scenario in the old Red Box, but I wanted to place it somewhere I had never played; N5 has been sitting on my shelf for many years, and I haven't done much with any of the FR material in my possession (just collected a few pieces along the years which I thought would be interesting reads, if nothing else.) Hopefully I'll be able to use the material with a new generation of gamers

Failure is an option
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1902 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2021 :  15:42:29  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With a very small group like that, I might propose 2 major shifts in the "action."

1) Make more of the encounters something that can be resolved through talking (if humanoid) or scaring the monster away (through barking or drawing a sword). The wolf in particular ought to be able to scare monsters away by looking fierce.

2) The D&D fight system is kind of clunky. It's also not a good representation of the kind of fights you see in movies.

I would suggest giving both the ranger and the wolf one attack per opponent per round. I would suggest that all opponent attacks that hit do 1 point of damage. It's still the same basic mechanics, but together they can make a 2-person party of novices the equal of a typical 4 person party of experienced gamers.

Just some thoughts from when I ran it for my kids.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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rabindranath72
Acolyte

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2021 :  16:01:51  Show Profile  Visit rabindranath72's Homepage Send rabindranath72 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

With a very small group like that, I might propose 2 major shifts in the "action."

1) Make more of the encounters something that can be resolved through talking (if humanoid) or scaring the monster away (through barking or drawing a sword). The wolf in particular ought to be able to scare monsters away by looking fierce.

2) The D&D fight system is kind of clunky. It's also not a good representation of the kind of fights you see in movies.

I would suggest giving both the ranger and the wolf one attack per opponent per round. I would suggest that all opponent attacks that hit do 1 point of damage. It's still the same basic mechanics, but together they can make a 2-person party of novices the equal of a typical 4 person party of experienced gamers.

Just some thoughts from when I ran it for my kids.


Thanks for the suggestions! Luckily the kids are risk-averse, from the time they played Basic D&D; they always try to parlay, even with ghouls (the latter didn't go very well...that taught them that running away, sometimes even before parlaying, may be a good option!)

Failure is an option
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe

444 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2021 :  19:48:53  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I wrote UIA with George for my kids. Great adventure for that.


You know I'm often asked what adventure I would suggest to someone DMing kids. I always suggest The Heroes of Hesiod, it is simple for even a non-DM to run and it is good for Ages 6+.

But I always wish I had a follow up and something to get people hooked on the Realms. What starting age would you suggest for UIA?

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1902 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2021 :  16:22:50  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I wrote UIA with George for my kids. Great adventure for that.


You know I'm often asked what adventure I would suggest to someone DMing kids. I always suggest The Heroes of Hesiod, it is simple for even a non-DM to run and it is good for Ages 6+.

But I always wish I had a follow up and something to get people hooked on the Realms. What starting age would you suggest for UIA?



My kids were 10 and 13, IIRC, and that worked well.

I think you are trying to determine:
a) What level of rules can they handle? (This is easy to compensate for by reducing the rules to "roll a d20 and I'll tell you if you succeed based on how hard it seems".)
b) What level of violence / scariness can they handle? Are they old enough to enjoy killing monsters? Are they old enough to hear a scary description?
c) What level of intrigue can they handle? Are they old enough to reason how how to negotiate with an NPC?

I think UIA has some violence, some scariness (although that could be toned down) and a decent amount of intrigue.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe

444 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2021 :  02:39:06  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah I was looking for the level of intrigue and complexity of following what is going on and what is being asked of them. The rest can be dialed up or down easy enough. I always try to get into my players' heads because one too many times have I designed something very clever that I would love to encounter in a game and my players just walked right by. Doing that for a child I would imagine is even more difficult.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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