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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

887 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  04:02:19  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Poll Question:
You're an elf PC and your background is slavery induced by Thayans.
You are sold in the market of Skullport by drow servitors in service to Thay themselves. You are doomed.

No weapons, no armor. what class do you wish to hail from?

All below mentioned NPC's are 20'th level max in class combinations.

Choices:

Cleric/ Sacred Fist
Rogue/ Cleric/ Sacred Fist
Favored Soul/ Sacred Fist
Druid/ Sacred Fist
Ranger/ Sacred Fist
Sorcerer/ Cleric/ Sacred Fist
Wizard/ Wild-Mage/ Favored Soul/ Sacred Fist
Cleric/ Divine Seeker/ Sacred Fist
Cleric/ Divine Champion/ Sacred Fist
Scout/ Cleric/ Sacred Fist
Favored Soul/ Magical Trickster/ Sacred Fist
Cleric/ Uncanny Trickster/ Sacred Fist

(Anonymous Vote)

Edited by - Copper Elven Vampire on 25 Mar 2020 04:18:02

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33193 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  04:29:12  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What's the point of this poll? These are some odd choices that you're railroading us into... There isn't any options for single classed characters, and a lot of multiclassed options are left off.

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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  04:30:01  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe Copper Elven Vampire,

I love the question, but alas, I just cannot choose any of those. I'll keep an eye on who votes what though! :)

Best regards,



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1094 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  10:52:11  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What kind of superpowered drow do you have that can enslave a 20th level cleric without him frying the lot of them and planeshifting to his god's personal casino.

Also, where's the monk/sacred fist?
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3087 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  12:18:35  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think the whole question is in kinda bad taste, myself.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Renin
Learned Scribe

USA
254 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  16:09:45  Show Profile Send Renin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Uh....what is going on?
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  18:49:22  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Ravenheart,

I can certainly appreciate notions that the polling process itself could have been vastly better; however, why is the "whole question" kind of in bad taste?

Best regards,



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
109 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  19:07:44  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Great Reader Ravenheart,

I can certainly appreciate notions that the polling process itself could have been vastly better; however, why is the "whole question" kind of in bad taste?

Best regards,






CEV has an agenda.There is only ONE way to build a PC, and his way is it. Go back and read his posts and judge for yourself. I don't know the EXACT motive behind this loaded poll, but it will be some variation on "his way is the best".
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  19:24:25  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe ElfBane,

Well, Senior Scribe Copper Elven Vampire did have some consistent elements to his choices. It sounds like you've read a lot of his posts.

I can't say the economic opportunity cost pans out for me reading this posts to inform myself on his motive though. I appreciate the insight nonetheless! :)

Best regards,




Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3806 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  19:40:41  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm confused as to why every choice requires the Sacred Fist prestige class? It's not very good and you might think there's WAAAY better options to get yourself out of the situation.

I'd assume the ultimate goal is to flee such a terrible situation, at any means necessary.

As to starting off as a slave, I'm not exactly comfortable with that notion either. Still, some adventures, like Out of the Abyss for 5e, starts you off in prison with some bad notions for your future. In that one, you're also in some Underdark prison cell with seemingly very little ways to escape.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  19:52:20  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Diffan,

I wasn't sure with Learned Scribe Elfbane's response to Senior Scribe Copper Elven Vampire, if he was referring the issue of slavery predominantly, or the particulars around the options available.

If it is the slavery issue, it's quite well known, accepted, and/or tolerated in no less than (6) places in the surface Realms, and dominant in the Underdark. So, more than 50% of the Realms I would argue. The amount of it written into lore by designers, authors, and approved by both TSR and WotC for use in their works is what it is. Naturally people find slavery abhorrent (if someone doesn't, they are a vile bag of crap), but it is a norm in the Realms.

Best regards,



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33193 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  20:01:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think if you're 20th level, it doesn't really matter what the class is -- you should be able to escape some slavers fairly readily.

The only way I see it being an issue is if you're a mage with 0 prepped spells, zero magical contingencies, and no feats that give spells automatically, or if you've got some weird class where you're awesome with one specific item and useless without it.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3806 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  20:13:34  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Great Reader Diffan,

I wasn't sure with Learned Scribe Elfbane's response to Senior Scribe Copper Elven Vampire, if he was referring the issue of slavery predominantly, or the particulars around the options available.

If it is the slavery issue, it's quite well known, accepted, and/or tolerated in no less than (6) places in the surface Realms, and dominant in the Underdark. So, more than 50% of the Realms I would argue. The amount of it written into lore by designers, authors, and approved by both TSR and WotC for use in their works is what it is. Naturally people find slavery abhorrent (if someone doesn't, they are a vile bag of crap), but it is a norm in the Realms.

Best regards,



Oh I'm aware that slavery is a thing in the Realms, even makes a pretty good plot hook to help stop and break slaves free. That's not really my issue with the proposed scenario. It's that you're starting off, of no fault of your own, in such a bad and potentially precarious situation. But so long as such players are OK with the premise, then no harm or foul.

I was just curious why the divine aspect is before forced so much? Why is divine magic a point of focus for this scenario?

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  20:14:27  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Diffan,

Ahhh....well, in that case, I see your point! :)

Thank you for clarifying!

Best regards,




Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3806 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  20:24:31  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I think if you're 20th level, it doesn't really matter what the class is -- you should be able to escape some slavers fairly readily.

The only way I see it being an issue is if you're a mage with 0 prepped spells, zero magical contingencies, and no feats that give spells automatically, or if you've got some weird class where you're awesome with one specific item and useless without it.



This is when feats like Spell Mastery comes in handy . I was looking at how a wizard can use his features of a spellbook with more versatility (aside from the usual daily preparation) and there's a feat called Uncanny Forethought ( Exemplars of Evil, p. 26) that allows you to "reserve a number of spell slots equal to your Intelligence modifier. As a standard action, you can use one of these slots to cast a spell that you selected for the Spell Mastery feat. The level of the slot used must be equal to or greater than the level of the spell you intend to cast.

Alternatively, as a full-round action, you can use a reserved slot to cast any spell that you know. The spell is resolved as normal, but for the purpose of the spell, your caster level is reduced by two. The level of the slot used must be equal to or greater than the level of the spell you intend to cast."


So in the even that you really have nothing with you, if you got feats like Eschew Materials or a metamagic feat like Still Spell, so long as you can speak and see, you can still cast some spells. By choosing a wide range of spells, spells with specific effects or by not needing components, you can still be pretty well equipped without your spellbook and spell pouch at hand or even when you're tied up.

Really, the only thing that would prove to be a significant deterrent is if there was some constant Anti-Magic Field in effect preventing all spells, supernatural effects, and spell-like abilities.

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Great Reader Diffan,

Ahhh....well, in that case, I see your point! :)

Thank you for clarifying!

Best regards,


No problem . I do see why slavery might be something people really want to steer clear of though, despite there being significant elements of it in the Realms. There's a lot of real-world elements that can help to make a world feel more alive and yet, we use this as an escape from the real world too. Being reminded of slavery - and how utterly awful it is - might be going too far for some players, which I think it certainly understandable.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."

Edited by - Diffan on 25 Mar 2020 20:30:57
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3263 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  20:38:16  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Went with Druid because at some point you'll just be able to turn into a bird and fly away.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4406 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  20:50:49  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not counting the clear desire for Sacred Fist there are other bugs. How many class levels would be desired mix for any selection?

A Rogue1/ Cleric18/ Sacred Fist1 is much different then a Rogue5/ Cleric10/ Sacred Fist5

The magic options change greatly and mundane options change as well.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8686 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  21:45:57  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Always be yourself, and be true to yourself

Unless you can be a wizard, then be a wizard

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3806 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  22:06:17  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd vote but Unarmed Swordsage/master of nine isn't an option, because being able to call forth maneuvers, stances, and all sorts of shadow jaunting shenanigans is awesome

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1094 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  22:19:27  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But what if the character is a muscle wizard, and he casts fist?

https://1d4chan.org/images/thumb/e/e4/Muscle_wizard.jpg/300px-Muscle_wizard.jpg
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Delnyn
Learned Scribe

USA
193 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  22:29:50  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As one more background element, Gruumsh murdered Erevan Ilesere and he becomes your divine patron whether you like it or not.
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  23:50:46  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe Copper Elven Vampire,

After profound reflection, I would have to go with Focused Specialist/Master Specialist Diviner/Void Disciple. That I feel would solve it. :)

Best regards,



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Delnyn
Learned Scribe

USA
193 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2020 :  00:07:28  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Choice Number One is Wizard 20/ Everything Else 0. I assume my trusty familiar is available.
Choice Number Two is Druid 20/Everything Else 0. Hopefully trusty animal companion is available.
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Delnyn
Learned Scribe

USA
193 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2020 :  00:10:35  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Senior Scribe Copper Elven Vampire,

After profound reflection, I would have to go with Focused Specialist/Master Specialist Diviner/Void Disciple. That I feel would solve it. :)

Best regards,





Master cpthero2,
I hope Conjuration is not a prohibited school. Teleportation is mighty useful. My two coppers.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3806 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2020 :  05:21:29  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm going with moon elf swordsage 15/ master of nine 5

Stats (elite array, 25-pts): Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 20, Cha 8

Feats: Dodge (1st), Improved Unarmed Strike (bonus), Weapon Focus [shadow hand weapons] (1st, via Discipline Focus), Intuitive Attack (3rd), Adaptive Style (6th), Improved Initiative (9th), Blind-Fight (12th), Superior Unarmed Strike (15th), Shadow Blade (18th)

Skills: Swordsage (126 ranks)/Master of Nine (35 ranks): Balance 17, Climb 17, Concentration 22, Heal 8, Hide 21, Jump 20, Knowledge (history) 7, Listen 12, Move Silently 10, Ride, Sense Motive 10, Swim, and Tumble 17

Maneuvers Known (28) by level: 1/3/3/3/3/3/3/4/5
Maneuvers readied (15)
Disciplines: Desert Wind, Devoted Spirit, Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw

AC 18
(+5 Wis, +3 Dex)
HP 117 (20 HD)
Fort +7, Ref +13, Will +18

Melee unarmed strike +20/+15/+10 (2d8+1/x2) or
Melee unarmed strike +20/+15/+10 (2d8+4/x2) in a shadow hand stance

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2020 :  05:43:57  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Learned Scribe Delnyn,

Indeed it is not! I have blocked: evocation, illusion, and necromancy. :)

Best regards,




Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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