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 Araumycos and Ched Nasad
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1405 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2020 :  18:57:16  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I was listening to the latest Mages and Sages podcast last night and Eric mentioned that if Araumycos was ever killed, the High Forest may well die off with it eventually. In the Out of the Abyss adventure, Zuggtmoy "infects" Araumycos and causes a large part of it to die off with even the possibility of the entire entity fully dying. Curious what you all think will be the fallout from this.

Ched Nasad appears to have completely moved. Looking at Salvatore's novel Timeless, the inside cover shows the city underneath the Star Mounts now. Unless this is where Nasadran survivors created another city after the War of the Spider Queen, the only real thing I can think of that makes sense is that it was placed there so it would appear on the map insert, since it is only half a page in size. Thoughts?

Arivia
Great Reader

Canada
2946 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2020 :  20:24:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have no faith in the current 5e team writing products that just happen to take place in the FR without any real care or attention to the setting. So Eric's right, but the Out of the Abyss team didn't care enough to really think through the repercussions of their changes. (Looking at the credits for that book, there's good designers but none of them with any great record of work with Realmslore.) And then yes, likely the map maker for Timeless moved Ched Nasad to make it easier on themselves.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3254 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2020 :  03:45:50  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-I love such attention to detail.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3105 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2020 :  07:33:00  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Reminds me of that old saying "Not in my Realms".

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8553 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2020 :  15:27:29  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd say it has something to do with something that crashed into the high forest and imbued the area with magical power, and maybe the drow were attracted to said area because of the strange "radiation" in the area. I really need to finish reading out of the abyss too, just to see what things they did that were specific to the realms.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1405 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2020 :  18:26:24  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In Elaine Cunningham's excellent novel Evermeet, there was a part where High Magic killed around 200 evil dragons in what I assume was the High Forest. There was horrible damage to the Weave due to so many of the magical creatures dying in the area. And being around 10,000 to 12000 years ago, that could place all those bones pretty deep into the ground. Maybe they're tied to Araumycos in some way too.
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1968 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2020 :  10:03:21  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus


Ched Nasad appears to have completely moved. Looking at Salvatore's novel Timeless, the inside cover shows the city underneath the Star Mounts now. Unless this is where Nasadran survivors created another city after the War of the Spider Queen, the only real thing I can think of that makes sense is that it was placed there so it would appear on the map insert, since it is only half a page in size.

Where it was supposed to be back in AD&D2?

I scaled 3.x map of Faerûn (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20060607a) to 3.5 map of Underdark ( https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Northdark) - High Forest and Araumycos coincided pretty much perfectly, Ched Nasad was almost exactly under Llorkh.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1405 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2020 :  18:06:02  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
2e has it directly under the High Gap in the northern Graypeak Mountains. I think it shifted a bit to the southwest from 2e to 3e. The novel Timeless has it on the half page map insert as a bit above the small fork of the Unicorn Run, about under where Star is listed on Star Mounts on that 3e map you referenced. Unless there is a precedence for a drow city moving and keeping the same name. Another thing being, all of the Timeless information where Ched Nasad is visited is in 1018 DR and that would be before the city was destroyed.

Easiest fix would be to say unreliable narrator in the map making area and/or maybe a drow city or ruin under the Star Mounts. There was a 1E reference to dead drow and illithids in the area and I remember something (from Eric Boyd or George Krashos I think?) about a plague that killed a bunch of House Auzkovyn drow who came up in that dwarf hold in the Lost Peaks. Maybe they're all close enough together and that is what the map maker used for their information.

Though I wouldn't mind rooting for House Nasadra still being alive. :)
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1651 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2020 :  18:42:14  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ched Nasad really needs to be under the High Gap, IMO, or a lot of Salvatore's novels don't work as well. Plus, it's relationship to Ammarindar is key.

In my mind, there are two major ways down into the Underdark from the High Forest, based on the current configuration of Araumycos. One, used by the Auzkovyn drow before their departure, goes down through the lost dwarfhold of Rornfaern in the Lost Peaks. It's currently used as a conduit for illicit trade between the drow and certain corrupt elves, with a verdant prince "middle man." This i the far less well known connection.

The other connection goes down from the Endless Caverns to the Underdark.

Here's a bit of history of that connection:

In the Year of the Thistle (885 DR), House Aleanrahel of Ched Nasad established an outpost in the upper reaches of the Endless Caverns known as Haundrauth, after driving off Grax Rekaxx, an ancient green dragon who had recently claimed the outer reaches of the Endless Caverns as his lair. Drow slavers from Haundrauth began capturing Ascalhi human refugees and Eaerlanni moon elven refugees in the southern High Forests and shipping them into the Underdark as slaves.

In the Year of Twelve Teeth (888 DR) Araumycos suddenly grew, cutting off the outermost of the Endless Caverns from the Realms Below. Haundrauth was cut off from Ched Nasad, leaving a skeletal garrison of drow to guard the outpost and the slaves being held in transit. Within weeks, Grax Rekaxx attacked the drow, slaying all the priestesses of Lolth and reclaiming his lair.

During the dragon’s attack, several hundred human and moon elf slaves fled into the depths of the Endless Caverns under the control of their male drow guards. The Adrinakh (pidgin drow for “twilight tribe”), as they came to call themselves, eventually established a small settlement in the depths, trapped between Grax Rekaxx and Araumycos. Freed of the yoke of the Spider Queen’s priestesses, the pureblooded drow males took the female moon elves and humans as consort-slaves and kept their offspring as servitors under their cruel thumb.

In the Year of the Circling Vulture (942 DR), seeking lost relics from fallen Eaerlann, elven adventurers from Evereska of House Silverspear slew Grax Rekaxx, at the mouth of the Endless Caverns and claimed what they could find of his hoard.

In the Year of Shattered Chains (1123 DR), the last drow male of Haundrauth died, poisoned by his half-elven consort. Finally free of their captors, the Adrinakh emerged from the Endless Caverns and settled in the unclaimed lands along the fringe of the Dire Wood, to the shock of the Fair Folk of the High Forest. Given their tragic history, the Adrinakh were tolerated, but largely shunned, by the wood elf tribes and moon elves of the region, and ever since they have taken mates largely from within their own ranks.

I haven't figured out yet when Araumycos "opened back up", but Skimmerhorn stumbles across Haundrauth in the Year of the Worm (1356 DR) and finds evidence of drow and illithid activity.

Skimmerhorn returned to Secomber and raised a company of adventurers, who called themselves the Stoneblades of Athalantar, to combat the threat. In the Year of the Prince (1357 DR), Skimmerhorn’s band drove out drow and illithid slavers from their recently established lair in the old drow outpost of Haundrauth in the outermost Endless Caverns. The adventurers then ventured deeper into the depths in hopes of collapsing the caverns’ connection to the Underdark, only to fall prey to the minions of Aumvor the Undying.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1968 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2020 :  22:35:38  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
High Gap is the one where Fallen Lands extend through and Stormkeep stands? (if this map is marked correctly https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Greypeak_Mountains )
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

Easiest fix would be to say unreliable narrator in the map making area and/or maybe a drow city or ruin under the Star Mounts. There was a 1E reference to dead drow and illithids in the area and I remember something (from Eric Boyd or George Krashos I think?) about a plague that killed a bunch of House Auzkovyn drow who came up in that dwarf hold in the Lost Peaks.



quote:
from The North:
Drow: There have been rumors for centuries that the forest conceals entrances to the Underdark - specifically to Menzoberranzan,
one of the most powerful Deepearth cities. Such rumors hold true in a number of places, including locations near the Endless Caverns,
the Lost Peaks, and the ruins of Karse. Only one of these access points has actually resulted in a drow settlement [...]
There is an established tribe of approximately 100 Vhaerun-worshiping drow living at the western fringe of the High Forest
just two days south of the River Dessarin's headwaters near the Lost Peaks.
[...]
Endless Caverns
At the edge of the Sisters, the broken lands south of the Star Mounts, numerous caverns dot the cliffs, and most are unremarkable.
However, a northern fork of the Unicorn Run flows from a huge opening in the cliff face, and the cave it creates is
the entrance to what Harper rangers and druids know as the Endless Caverns. These are a series of deep-reaching cavern
and tunnel complexes that the elves of Eaerlann (as do the elves and centaurs of the High Forest today) believed had
connection points with the Deep Realms of Underearth.
In the ancient days after the abandonment of Eaerlann, Grax Rekaxx, an ancient green dragon, made the mouth of the
Endless Caverns his home. His moss-covered bones decorate the outermost cave chamber, where the river falls a short
distance to join the Unicorn Run. [...]
For the past 65 winters, Grimnoshtasdrano, the #147;Riddling Dragon,#148; has made his residence in the ancient lair of Grax.


So the Endless Caverns may lead deep, but there was at least one reason to avoid entrances there, if any.
quote:
Though I wouldn't mind rooting for House Nasadra still being alive. :)

Well, those drow can be surprisingly tenacious.

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Ched Nasad really needs to be under the High Gap, IMO, or a lot of Salvatore's novels don't work as well. Plus, it's relationship to Ammarindar is key.

I wish those trying to write for Realms bothered to ask Ed more often. But at least Llorkh is closer to that gap (if it's the right one) than either to Endless Caverns, and much closer than Menzo to the Lost Peaks.
In-Universe it's more understandable. In that Underdark paths are rarely straight, aren't they? So there's at least some leeway on where exactly things should be to fit.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1651 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2020 :  23:12:13  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That map is so poorly drawn it's not really possible to describe where it is. Find a map from 1e or 2e of the Greypeaks in FR5 or The North.

The pass that leads east from Llorkh is the Dawn Pass.

The pass that connects the Nameless Dungeon to the northern Fallen Lands is High Gap pass.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 03 Feb 2020 23:19:31
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1968 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2020 :  07:43:24  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

That map is so poorly drawn it's not really possible to describe where it is.
Sure it is. It's between Delimbiyr and the Fallen Lands, S of Elvenport and N of the North tributaries (on the old map, named: Loagrann + Skull Creek / Whitewater) of Delimbiyr's Eastern tributary on which Llorkh stands (on the old map, named: Greyflow).
But yes, could be better.
It's the right pass, but for some reason, whoever drew the map poked the Fallen Lands all the way through the range.

quote:
Find a map from 1e or 2e of the Greypeaks in FR5 or The North.

Oh, right, old maps with better scale. Thanks, The North version is indeed clear.
This area is on two pages, but looks like the W end of High Gap is on the line between Llorkh and Hellgate Keep, just a bit N of the middle.

quote:
The pass that connects the Nameless Dungeon to the northern Fallen Lands is High Gap pass.

But... on the old map the Nameless Dungeon is near the N end of the Greypeak Mountains, it's W of the Far Forest rather than Fallen Lands.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 11 Feb 2020 07:47:15
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