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 Avenger - alternative Paladin features [5E]
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3690 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2019 :  00:48:22  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So I like that 5E tried to put a lot of 4E-isms into their game, especially with mechanical concepts, terms, and ideas. One of the 4e-isms to make it to 5e was the Paladin's Oath of Vengeance choice. At 3rd level the Paladin could get a number of avenger-like effects like Vow of Enmity, abjure undead, some movement-based effects, plus their oath spells which that help you move, hold down an enemy, or directly help combat.

I think this helped a lot.....but.... I think it could've gone further. To me, and especially reading the lore of the class AND some Realms-inspired novels like Shadowbane, it still doesn't quite capture the essence of the total class. It's there but needs a tiny bit of help. So below I created some Alternate Class features that a Paladin could swap out to make them feel more "Avenger-y". Note that the class is still a Paladin, gets Oaths at the same level, spells are the same, except where noted here. Enjoy (and feedback welcome!)

Avenger (alternative Paladin)

PROFICIENCIES
Armor:
None
Skills: As per the Paladin list, plus Investigation and Stealth. Medicine is removed from the Paladin list.

ARMOR OF FAITH
Beginning at 1st level, while you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield, your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier.

This ability replaces the Paladin's normal proficiency with all armor and shield.

DIVINE CENSURE
Your strength and conviction to your deity, church, or oath is growing and you gain a sense of righteousness that helps fuel your motives and ideals. This zeal confers a specific bonus depending on your choice on censuring your enemies. As a bonus action on your turn, choose one foe that you can see. You gain your censure’s benefit against that foe until the creature dies or you fall unconscious.
Choose one of the Censures from the list below. You may use your divine censure a number of times per day equal to your proficiency bonus. You regain all uses of your censure when you complete a long rest.
Censure of Pursuit: You may use the Dash action as a reaction whenever the target of your censure attempts to move away from you. You may only use Dash to move closer to the target of your censure.
Censure of Retribution: You add your proficiency bonus to damage rolls each turn you have taken damage from an enemy other than your censured target. This bonus damage may only be applied once per turn, even if you have more than one attack.
Censure of Unity: So long as you have an ally adjacent to your censured target, you or one adjacent ally can have advantage on attack rolls against the target.

This feature replaces a paladin’s Lay on Hands feature.

FIGHTING STYLE
Avengers forgo the protective properties of armor and shields, thus they have no need for the Protection or Defense style. Instead, add the following Fighting Styles to those chosen at 2nd level.
- Archery
You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons.

- Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.

RIGHTEOUS MIGHT
Your unwavering faith gives you near supernatural grace that terrifies your foes. You can use Charisma instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of weapons with the versatile or heavy traits.

This replaces the Paladin's Divine Health feature.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."

Edited by - Diffan on 18 Oct 2019 15:32:53

Delnyn
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USA
52 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2019 :  15:09:21  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Would Investigation serve as an alternative skill? Stealth of course is great for its own flavor. Investigation would be an alternative for cerebral avengers who want to study their mark for weeks or even months. This is probably a safer option than sneaking into a wizard's quarters. Again, avengers define themselves by the enemies they choose. Investigation is not a viable option for all option.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3690 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2019 :  04:38:11  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

Would Investigation serve as an alternative skill? Stealth of course is great for its own flavor. Investigation would be an alternative for cerebral avengers who want to study their mark for weeks or even months. This is probably a safer option than sneaking into a wizard's quarters. Again, avengers define themselves by the enemies they choose. Investigation is not a viable option for all option.



Yeah I could certainly see Avengers getting that Skill as a possible class skill, it does make sense when it comes to studying your foes

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3690 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2019 :  15:35:06  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Some changes:

• Added Investigation to the Skill list.
• Removed the 10 minute window that the monster has before the Censure wears off. It really doesn't make much sense and I doubt it would rarely come up in game-play, plus I sort of like the whole idea that you remember those who you've passed judgement on.
• Censure can be used a number of times per day equal to your Proficiency bonus, still takes a Long Rest to recover. This sort of falls in line with things like Rage.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Delnyn
Seeker

USA
52 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2019 :  18:19:30  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love this Avenger build. Makes me wonder how to make an invoker variant of the cleric class. Too bad I donated all my 4E books.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3690 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2019 :  21:38:07  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

I love this Avenger build. Makes me wonder how to make an invoker variant of the cleric class. Too bad I donated all my 4E books.



Thanks! I started playtesting the variant last night. At first it seemed underpowered a bit, but I think it was more lucky rolls on the DMs part. Our party got off a boat and got ambushed by a "welcome party" and i got dropped in 2 turns. My AC is low for a front-line guy at 16 (Dex/Cha both 16) but after a quick heal, dropped quite a few bad guys.

The class relies a bit heavier on its spells like Shield of Faith for added AC but being that it's Concentration, you basically can only have that active. I picked Censure of Retribution but it's situational since monsters don't don't always clump together.

As for an Invoker, that would be pretty cool. Do you think it should be a Domain aspect or something like I did with the Paladin here where I change up some features?

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Delnyn
Seeker

USA
52 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2019 :  00:22:42  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Yes" to both invoker questions. I would offer two divine domains, remove turn/destroy feature, and give 1d6 hp per level, light armor and shields, no medium armor proficiency. One domain gives its features at levels 1, 2, 6, 8 and 17 as usual. The second domain gives its features at levels 3, 4, 8, 10 and 19.
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