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Falcon X
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  18:48:05  Show Profile Send Falcon X a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I doubt this is cannon Forgotten Realms, but it was on Candlekeep Forums. Was probably in some form of creative speculation, or even roleplaying.
However, I have spent hours over multiple years trying to find it to satiate my curiosity. It became a significant part of my game. If anyone remembers, please point me in the right direction!

I was just a single forum post in the middle of a topic, in a quote bracket, I think.

Content:
It was about how Asmodeus has shaped the information released about himself, and people who try to share what really happened are often eliminated.
The man who either shared this information, or was used as an example of someone who got the wrong end of Asmodeus in this way, was named something akin to: Philogmemes, Filogmemes, Philogmeme, Filogmame, or something like that.

Any ideas?

Gelcur
Learned Scribe

325 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  20:06:32  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Any chance you have a year or range of years? Was it pre-4E? That might help narrow down the number of topics to search through.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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Falcon X
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  20:48:44  Show Profile Send Falcon X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately I remember no specific date.

I found it while browsing the internet about 3 years ago (late 2016), but Iím sure the post was at least a couple years old by that point (donít remember that distinctly though).

I imagine the discussion had briefly turned to the nature of Asmodeus, or how he keeps his true nature hidden, but I donít believe it was the subject of the entire topic.
I know that isnít the most uncommon subject to discuss.
What made this post distinct was that it was a couple paragraphs written as if it were an official document, and by this Philogmemes guy (which I know is not the proper spelling of his name).
Philogmemes was not the username of the poster, and I donít remember seeing him as a user in the previous posts of that page. It looked like a made up name. If you have ever been to the old mimir.net site, you know what Iím talking about of how the posters created personas that they attributed research and findings to (like Magnum Opus, or Julius the Symmetrical).
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Falcon X
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2019 :  20:53:44  Show Profile Send Falcon X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found it while being about 10 pages deep in a google search for something along the lines of ďTrue nature of AsmodeusĒ or ďD&D Asmodeusís goalsĒ.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6820 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2019 :  01:39:07  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Candlekeep's search genie is a rather elderly and befuddled creature.

You'd do much better consulting the all-knowing google search genie. And uttering the correct domain command word within each divination the genie invokes. Example - and apologies for this insulting oversimplification, but the forum software isn't letting me make clean links in this scroll. You can narrow the search results a lot if you can specify any exact text passages, any other names mentioned in the scroll, any names of the scribes who commented, etc.

If you're lucky (and still using the same machine, etc) then you might find stuff you found before still sitting in your browser history. If you're willing to put time into exhaustively searching for what is otherwise apparently impossible to find then you also have the option of downloading and sifting through all the activity google has logged and archived on your user profile. (Assuming you're not the sort of user who actively minimizes the trail of data points you leave behind.)

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 12 Jun 2019 02:03:54
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Falcon X
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2019 :  05:14:08  Show Profile Send Falcon X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Alas, while great advice, and I thank you for a well put response Ayrik, I was using a work computer st the time, so the history route will be next to impossible :(

And yeah, I think google is the stronger engine for this search. Candlekeepís has given me little luck. If I make another journey down the search road, Iíll give Google another try.
To be honest, I doubt anyone here will do much better than I have unless you just happen to have been a part of said conversation. Maybe if someone knows the correct spelling of Philogmemes....

Thank you guys tremendously for trying!
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6820 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2019 :  10:00:12  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I ran a fuzzy cache metasearch on your parameters for a short while. It suggested the word you seek might be: proselytize, philosopheme, proxy, propaganda, Mephistopheles.

The best-fit result it found was this passage ...
book 2: she could have bought off and re-opened the Hocus Fantasmagorium, remaking the museum in an interesting place full of "pro-Asmodeus" propaganda, like having a few exhibitions of the layers of hell and fate of "those who betray their countries"

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v8b4?The-Gardner

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 12 Jun 2019 10:00:48
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
598 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2019 :  11:29:46  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Could it be this?:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21840

quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick

Here is another example of an unreliable narrator, this time more obviously unreliable than Volo. However, it has even more color and flavor. This sample is from the Planescape Setting book, Face of Evil, the Fiends, pg. 30:

quote:
Plenty of myths surround the Lords of the Nine. Some folks say they're arch-fiends, risen from the ranks below them to dominate the layers of Baator. Other graybeards claim they're really yugoloths (I swear, some folks see 'loths everywhere they look). There's even a group that thinks the lords grew up from the very essence of Baator itself and are the living manifestations of the plane's will.

Is any of it true? Who knows? The lords keep most of the facts about themselves dark; the fewer folks know of 'em, the better. still, it doesn't prevent tenacious mortals from digging up whatever they can. Take Willgan the Dogged, for instance. That blood gathered together more material than nearly any other. 'Course, the baatezu say his sources were corrupt, and Willgan ain't available for questions--he's vanished.

Anyway, here's what we do know about the lords. They're mighty, maybe even mightier than the deities of Baator. They're partly creatures of symbology as well as physical form, so their natures change bit by bit over the millennia. They've hidden the truth about themselves behind countless walls, giving different names and showing different aspects to almost every berk who asks, so that no one can truly label them. Like powers, they can manifest avatars and choose their forms for best effect.

The lords shape the layers of Baator in their own image and police their territory better than the Harmonium ever could. They command handfuls of noble baatezu and armies of common baatezu, and they use their underlings' power to amass ever more influence for themselves. And though they're bitter rivals, they recognize the need for diplomacy and alliances now and again to keep Baator strong against outsiders.

What else? Well, the lords don't give a fig about the Blood War, leaving it all in the hands of the Dark Eight. They simply rule the nine layers of Baator. They also make pacts with leatherheads on the Prime Material Plane, promising strength, wealth, and sometimes immortality to those who follow their tenets. They build civilizations and crush empires. They are, in short, never to be messed with.

That's all I can say with certainty. Anything else is just guesswork. 'Course, some guesses are better than others, and the chant below is a collection of the most compelling evidence ever found. But mind where you take this information, berk--flap your bone-box too loudly in the wrong places and you'll wind up in the dead-book for sure.


This is to give a taste and flavor of the different ways the information can be presented. I would consider Volo's presentation method the 'middle path' that I mentioned. I would consider the 3E FRCS entry to be omniscient and encyclopedic. Finally, there is the Planescape presentation method which is the most colorful, but also the most blatantly unreliable.

When it comes to reading something, I find reading the Planescape presentation the most enjoyable. It is interesting and full of color and flavor. It gives a real taste of the setting. However, doing this for a Wiki is likely next to impossible. Keeping the tone and presentation consistent would be hellish. Then there is the fact that the text deliberately attempts to offer alternative interpretations of the world, which has a real impact as people attempt to add to the setting--eventually some of those "interpretations" start to get nailed down.

The advantage of doing things like the 3E FRCS is that it is clear, clean, concise, and factual. This makes working on the projects much easier.

...and of course, the Volo's Guide method is the 'middle path' between the two.

There are pros and cons to all methods of presentation.

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Falcon X
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2019 :  17:39:13  Show Profile Send Falcon X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Baltas and Ayrik, those are both great examples of the flavor of things Iím looking for, and I might be able to use them as scraps in my game. Good job, and thanks!

Unfortunately, thatís no luck on the specific thing. It was definitely Candlekeep, only a paragraph or two in a quote box, and contained that name: Philígmem or something like it.
I remember snagging on to the name distinctly because I was already using the name Philoktetes (from Greek myth) and thought this name was close enough that it could have been an alternate persona.

Baltas, I am completely with you on the information in Planescape and FRCS. I am a Planescape junkie and go there first, but FRCS when I need straight facts.
However, I treat every story and book I read as I would Planescape: someoneís opinion or theory. There are contradicting ideas in all of D&D lore, and I just assume none of it is 100% truth. Certainly not that pertaining to fiends.
I have my headcannon for my game, but i still call it headcannon :)
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6820 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2019 :  19:42:54  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Worshipers of Asmodeus at FR Wiki ... basically a list of all canon characters known to serve Asmodeus in any capacity ... I think this is probably a "complete" or "finished" list because Asmodeus is such an unusually interesting facet of D&D lore and D&D fandom, so much traffic on that page that I doubt anything could slip unnoticed through the obsessive crowd.

Googling "disciple of asmodeus" turns up lots of names (mostly non-English names) which aren't on that list. Likely all homebrew/fanon.

[/Ayrik]
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