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tmcvicar2
Seeker

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2018 :  13:30:35  Show Profile Send tmcvicar2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Dragon #269 contains a short article about 2 Hin Realms: Luiren, which most are familiar with and Delmyr.

Delmyr is located just east of The Glittering Spires and appears to be composed of the southern part of The Umberwood. Northeast of the lake of mists and in the northern parts of The Hordelands.

I was pondering basing a campaign in this area and was working up some history and backstory.

GHOTR notes that around -7800 DR, the Djinn arrive in Faerun with human and halfling slaves and settle what is now Calimport.

1800 years later, GHOTR then notes that in -6000 DR, Humans return from the Lluirwood Forest and report three
distinct tribes of Hin living in that region. These tribes I assume, are the Ghostwise, Lightfoot and Strongheart Tribes.

Several invasions of Lurien over the years are reported to have been foiled by Mages of Halruua. Yet, these very same Mages of Halruua are noted in Dragon #269 as firmly wanting to keep the Luiren Halflings out of Halruua.

Races of Faerun describes the 3 Hin tribes thusly:

Ghostwise: Elusive and not welcoming to strangers, most reside in The Chondalwood, where they fled after the Hin Ghostwars which ravaged Luiren around -68 DR. Ghostwise are telepathic, devoted to their cland and prefer not to deal with otther races.

Lightfoot: The most numerous and well-travelled Tribe, Most Lightfoots are part of a Great Hin diaspora which spread across Faerun after the Hin Ghostwars. They are often found living amongst other races and in the cities and settlements around The Realms.

Strongheart: Stronghearts value co-operation above all else but also have a strong wanderlust side. Thus, they have established agrarian communities, but individuals tend to wander between these communities. Most of Lurien now is made up of Strongheart Halflings.

In discussing Delmyr in Dragon #269. it is noted as being a land where the Hin dwell in balance with nature, yet is strongly agrarian. They have taken steps to remain somewhat hidden in their Kingdom and do not appear to encourage visitors. They do, however, maintain trading realtions with Gnomes of The Glittering Spires.

With all that background in mind I was pondering the the origin of the Halflings in Faerun in general and Delmyr in particular.

Although not close geographically, I am leaning toward assuming that the Hin of Luiren are descended from escaped slaves of the Djinn of Calimport. Over the 1800+ years from -7800 to -6000 DR, these escaped slaves developed into the 3 distinct tribes we know (or maybe they were distinct already, perhaps all 3 tribes were part of those Calimport slaves).

As for the origin of the Delmyr Kingdom. I am leaning toward it being a group of Stronghearts who somehow made their was to the area after the Ghostwars. The description of Delmyr seems to be more in line with the Strongheart characteristics than the other 2 tribes.

Anyway, not more Lore is available for Halflings or this line of thought.

Any thoughts?

Ancestors could hear
What is happening now
They would turn in their graves
They would all be ashamed
That the land of the free
Has been written in chains
And I know what I want
When the timing is right
Then I'll take what is mine
I am the clansman

Iron Maiden "The Clansman"

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32857 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2018 :  18:13:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Halfings in the Realms have received short shrift, I would say. (Picking those specific words to get the obvious pun! )

But I can offer a couple potential bits of lore...

One is a Known Worlds D&D supplement called The Five Shires. It's not the Realms, but it's a land of halflings, and it's from Ed's pen. I sought the book out for that reason, and after I'd read it, I emailed Ed and said I thought the book would be a good fit for Luiren. His response:

quote:
Sure. Superimpose the Luiren cities and government structure, shift places "just a little" to make room for them, and, yes, it works admirably for that. Almost as if someone designed it that way. ;}


There was also a generic (non-FR) book in 2E, part of the PHBR series of player handbooks: The Complete Book of Gnomes & Halflings. For the Realms, there was Demihumans of the Realms. Both of those focused more on player options than lore, though.

And lastly, there was an article I quite liked that gave us some planetouched demihumans -- including a race of djinni/halfling planetouched called the d'hin.

The Realms-specific article was "Legacies of Ancient Empires" by Eric L. Boyd, in Dragon 350.

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tmcvicar2
Seeker

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2018 :  18:45:09  Show Profile Send tmcvicar2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm, I overlooked that Dragon 350 article. Yes, I like those D'hin also. Gives me an idea for "The Vigilant" which is mentioned in the Dragon 269 article I referenced.

I agree that Halflings have gotten the short end of the straw as far as realms lore goes. Staring retirement in the face, maybe I write that down as something to work on - Compilation of Halfling Lore. Wouldn't really be a tall order to get it all together.

"The Great Halfling Migration" that Boyd mentions.... I wonder if that's the one that took place after the Ghostwars. It would seem not. That one was out of Luiren, this one seems yo have been out of Calimshan area.

Anyhow, thanks for the heads up on that Dgn350 article.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Halfings in the Realms have received short shrift, I would say. (Picking those specific words to get the obvious pun! )

But I can offer a couple potential bits of lore...

One is a Known Worlds D&D supplement called The Five Shires. It's not the Realms, but it's a land of halflings, and it's from Ed's pen. I sought the book out for that reason, and after I'd read it, I emailed Ed and said I thought the book would be a good fit for Luiren. His response:

quote:
Sure. Superimpose the Luiren cities and government structure, shift places "just a little" to make room for them, and, yes, it works admirably for that. Almost as if someone designed it that way. ;}


There was also a generic (non-FR) book in 2E, part of the PHBR series of player handbooks: The Complete Book of Gnomes & Halflings. For the Realms, there was Demihumans of the Realms. Both of those focused more on player options than lore, though.

And lastly, there was an article I quite liked that gave us some planetouched demihumans -- including a race of djinni/halfling planetouched called the d'hin.

The Realms-specific article was "Legacies of Ancient Empires" by Eric L. Boyd, in Dragon 350.



Ancestors could hear
What is happening now
They would turn in their graves
They would all be ashamed
That the land of the free
Has been written in chains
And I know what I want
When the timing is right
Then I'll take what is mine
I am the clansman

Iron Maiden "The Clansman"
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8542 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2018 :  00:55:54  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting find. For the sake of conversation, let's gather some data from the article.

Delmyr is very close to Winterkeep, which was the capital of Raumathar. These halflings are noted as being "in balance with nature", but they're also noted as being dangerous with slings and crossbows, guarding their territory. They can also call upon "either" powerful, reclusive human wizards who dwell in the region, or some other source of mighty magic to fight for them if need be (something called "the Vigilant" and specifically left mysterious). They're also known for erecting "impressive monster skeletons (including wyverns, peryton, behir, and even a dragon and a bulette) as mute warning markers around the edges of their woods to prove their might to all visitors.

Also a sidenote of these halflings of Delmyr in that article has something which MIGHT indicate when it was founded

the below quote is from me reading a hazy copy, so correct my spelling if its wrong
"The current King is Joroelner "Whitebeard" Gleddyn, second of that line to rule after almost a thousand years of the Parradyne dynasty. The usual rumors of lost sons of the blood of Parradyne lurking in hiding, awaiting the day of a glorious return to the throne surface frequently".

Personally, I'd put some halfling with the last name Parradyne as forming the kingdom about a thousand years ago, and I'd put it as displaced halflings from Luiren. I'd actually make it some of the ghostwise halflings that continue to worship Malar, as their obvious capability as snipers is apparent, plus they keep the trophies of what they hunt to warn off others. Thus, perhaps when the ghostwise lost, and some were exiled and sought to atone... others didn't want to atone, and they went a separate way.

I'd also have these Malar worshipping ghostwise halflings possibly working with some of the barbarians of the Shaar. I'm noting here that the witches of Rashemen travel down to the Sharawood in -75 DR and imprison Eltab and bind a dragon known as the Everlasting Wyrm to guard him. Now, WHICH witches of Rashemen were these, and were the witches yet as separated as they will become with the Hathrans and Durthans, etc... So, I'd personally have some witches staying behind in the Shaar, but not the good variety. Noting that the Sharawood is just on Luiren's northern border. Also noting that in -69 DR that the gate network in the council hills area suddenly opens and some Illuskan tribesmen come through. Maybe some of those witches were fussing around in nearby Shandaular? Maybe they were trying to re-establish the link between the Shandaular in the Shaar and the portal in Ashanath again, and they reopened the connection to where the Rus came from (an Illuskan tribe that showed up in Rashemen in -105 DR... just 36 years prior)?

Noting that the Hin Ghostwars were from -68 DR to -65 DR, but that the powerful Malar cleric Desva showed up "around" -100 DR. So, the ghostwars really hit their stride right after the Illuskans show up along with the Arkaiun barbarians. Noting that many of the Arkaiun barbarians also worship Malar.


So, I'm picturing some Raumviran witches making an alliance with the Malar priest Desva and the ghostwise halflings to try and establish a realm. When that fails, maybe the Raumviran witches lead some of the human barbarians and the ghostwise halflings back through the portal in Shandaular. Maybe they come out in Ashanath and travel to Winterkeep (the former capital of Raumathar), or maybe they exit from a portal near Winterkeep. Eventually, the halflings found Delmyr, but they still have an alliance with the Raumviran witches (who are the forebears of the Durthans or have studied much of the same lore). The halflings outnumber the humans, but perhaps this Umberwood that they exist in is filled with "dark spirits" OR "telthors" and also maybe the Raumviran witches use the skeletons to guard this far flung society. As to the vigilant, maybe this is a powerful spirit/telthor tasked to protect the realm.... maybe a ghost dragon.. maybe a telthor witch... Also, to make this society different from just a dark Rashemen, maybe they aren't near as sexist, with Malar worshipping male priests, etc...

Also, it might be interesting if these Malar worshipping halflings and humans are at odds with tribes of the "reindeer" headed Shatjan listed in the Horde boxed set who are noted as protectors of the deer herds.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
759 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2018 :  22:43:41  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seeker tmcvicar2,

I really feel the best bet would be to take an already established and acknowledged history between the Zamogedi and Tuigan tribes and the harassment that they deliver upto the Elves of the Pleasant Valley Gateway Oasis, and expand it upon the Hin too. I very much enjoy inserting fantastical, powerfully magical, and other sorts of options into a scenario like you are talking about; however, for a campaign, I think sometimes, it is nice to add that very believable aspect in there as well. This is a great way to do so. You can even develop material on how those Hin and Elves have a peace accord, an alliance maybe even, and they work to ensure that the different Horde tribes don't overwhelm and eradicate them.

Thoughts?




quote:
Originally posted by tmcvicar2

Dragon #269 contains a short article about 2 Hin Realms: Luiren, which most are familiar with and Delmyr.

Delmyr is located just east of The Glittering Spires and appears to be composed of the southern part of The Umberwood. Northeast of the lake of mists and in the northern parts of The Hordelands.

I was pondering basing a campaign in this area and was working up some history and backstory.

GHOTR notes that around -7800 DR, the Djinn arrive in Faerun with human and halfling slaves and settle what is now Calimport.

1800 years later, GHOTR then notes that in -6000 DR, Humans return from the Lluirwood Forest and report three
distinct tribes of Hin living in that region. These tribes I assume, are the Ghostwise, Lightfoot and Strongheart Tribes.

Several invasions of Lurien over the years are reported to have been foiled by Mages of Halruua. Yet, these very same Mages of Halruua are noted in Dragon #269 as firmly wanting to keep the Luiren Halflings out of Halruua.

Races of Faerun describes the 3 Hin tribes thusly:

Ghostwise: Elusive and not welcoming to strangers, most reside in The Chondalwood, where they fled after the Hin Ghostwars which ravaged Luiren around -68 DR. Ghostwise are telepathic, devoted to their cland and prefer not to deal with otther races.

Lightfoot: The most numerous and well-travelled Tribe, Most Lightfoots are part of a Great Hin diaspora which spread across Faerun after the Hin Ghostwars. They are often found living amongst other races and in the cities and settlements around The Realms.

Strongheart: Stronghearts value co-operation above all else but also have a strong wanderlust side. Thus, they have established agrarian communities, but individuals tend to wander between these communities. Most of Lurien now is made up of Strongheart Halflings.

In discussing Delmyr in Dragon #269. it is noted as being a land where the Hin dwell in balance with nature, yet is strongly agrarian. They have taken steps to remain somewhat hidden in their Kingdom and do not appear to encourage visitors. They do, however, maintain trading realtions with Gnomes of The Glittering Spires.

With all that background in mind I was pondering the the origin of the Halflings in Faerun in general and Delmyr in particular.

Although not close geographically, I am leaning toward assuming that the Hin of Luiren are descended from escaped slaves of the Djinn of Calimport. Over the 1800+ years from -7800 to -6000 DR, these escaped slaves developed into the 3 distinct tribes we know (or maybe they were distinct already, perhaps all 3 tribes were part of those Calimport slaves).

As for the origin of the Delmyr Kingdom. I am leaning toward it being a group of Stronghearts who somehow made their was to the area after the Ghostwars. The description of Delmyr seems to be more in line with the Strongheart characteristics than the other 2 tribes.

Anyway, not more Lore is available for Halflings or this line of thought.

Any thoughts?



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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tmcvicar2
Seeker

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2020 :  21:55:01  Show Profile Send tmcvicar2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From Ed's Twitter Feed. Some realmslore bringing Delmyr up to date.

"Yes, the kingdom of Delmyr still exists, though in the Spellplague and Sundering it lost two kings, Joroelner Gleddyn and his son Mendaer (and three Gleddyn brothers and their mother, ending the Gleddyn line) in the tumult monsters from Abeir overran the kingdom and were defeated only after decades of hard fighting (as some of those monsters were dragons who chose caverns in the Glittering Spires as ideal places to lair).
Delmyr is currently ruled by Queen Alsarra Ambrutter, second of her line (she succeeded her older brother Jhaland, who perished slaying the red dragon Alamrauthur), and she is tirelessly rebuilding the realm (better roads and bridges, crown assistance in sewing and reaping crops, tending wild growth to yield more wild herbs and medicines and foodstuffs in the future). Initially derided and resisted by the baronial families, who all still exist and cling to their power, she has won them all over into staunch support, because all can see she is bettering the lives of all and improving Delmyr. However, a shadow is rising beneath Delmyr: someone (drow? Illithids? Elminster believes the latter) is behind mustering monsters of the Underdark and driving them upwards through the caverns and passages of the Glittering Spires. They have almost eradicated the gnomes, and the supplies of weapons, tools, and wire the Delmyrans traded for have dwindled to nothing. Monsters of the Underdark are frequently raiding the hin surface realm now, and if the kingdom doesnít arm and effectively resist, the hin may soon follow the gnomes into near-extinction.
The veteran warrior Darthyn Belrowhin leads Delmyrís too-small army, the Defenders (really a handful of soldiers leading a motley militia).
To make coin for hiring adventurers and mercenaries, Delmyr has begun to trade harlanthra, its nutty, green-hued mushroom cheese, with farfaring human merchants and peddlers. Prized handwheels of this superb edible now grace the tables of nobility, royalty, and the wealthy in Impiltur, Cormyr, and Sembia. Yet most humans in the Heartlands and Sword Coast still donít know where Delmyr is, or even what it is."

Ancestors could hear
What is happening now
They would turn in their graves
They would all be ashamed
That the land of the free
Has been written in chains
And I know what I want
When the timing is right
Then I'll take what is mine
I am the clansman

Iron Maiden "The Clansman"
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
759 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2020 :  01:53:16  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good afternoon Seeker tmcvicar2,

Thank you for the follow up! I love it when "old" [whatever that means] are revived. Did you just come back to this randomly, or did the Old Mage just return from his planar travels and get back to you? ;)

Best regards,



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1645 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2020 :  04:24:37  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tmcvicar2


"The Great Halfling Migration" that Boyd mentions.... I wonder if that's the one that took place after the Ghostwars. It would seem not. That one was out of Luiren, this one seems yo have been out of Calimshan area.




Steven and I wove the story of the halfing migration up the Sword Coast into many different sources over the years, with lots of help from George. Check out Empires of the Shining Sea, Lands of Intrigue, Races of Faerun, Demihuman Deities, and Under Illefarn Anew. (The last one has lots of the timeline, IIRC.)

The lightfoot halflings of the Sword Coast started out in Calimshan. They moved north into the Purple Hills, then Meiritin, and then Secomber. There were others who were sent up to Tzindylspur and spread out from there.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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keftiu
Learned Scribe

143 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2020 :  05:26:04  Show Profile Send keftiu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I liked them as a people without a homeland in 4e. They get shouted out as being traders across the Sea of Fallen Stars, especially in coastal Aglarond, and I think a good number end up in Delzimmer and East Rift.

4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms.
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
759 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2020 :  07:24:56  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eric,

It never gets old having the actual designers in here laying it out like that! :) Very cool!

Best regards,


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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