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 Abusing Exarchs
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Corruption
Seeker

32 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2018 :  12:50:15  Show Profile Send Corruption a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
No, this is not as fun as the title sounds

I have been thinking about ways that Gods, and even demons can abuse the abilities of Exarchs.

For example, say there is a hero that is well known and admired. People praise the hero, and all but officially worship him. However, there is already a demi-God of that area.
Now, how about someone making that hero an Exarch of their own and gaining all the praise and admiration, even possibly souls that hero brings them?

The demi-God of what the hero is praised for may not be the one who makes them an exarch, and thus there is an incursion into the demi-gods domain and portfolio.

Another example may be a warlock becoming an Exarch of their Patron as part of the deal. Say a Demon of Chaos has their warlock stir up a rebellion in a tyranical state like Thay. The people praise the Warlock, and are willing to fight and die for the warlock, thus fueling the demon. Maybe even have the warlock preach of their patron under a false name. In this example, the patron might be described as a God of Freedom.

Thing is, there is no limit on how many Exarchs a Diety or fiend can have.

What other kinds of abuses of this can you think of, and what do you think of this?

When all, even Gods, must die, then live a life worth living

Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe

USA
129 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2018 :  02:42:56  Show Profile  Visit Storyteller Hero's Homepage Send Storyteller Hero a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Exarch" is basically just a title with obligations and privileges based on the organizational strengths of a deity's influence infrastructure.

There is no limit to how many exarchs a powerful being can have, but the more they have, the more stretched their resources are between the various lieutenants.







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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3193 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2018 :  03:52:30  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Is there a source that states that there is no limit to the amount a deity can make? Because I'd say that just by logic, a weaker deity would have less power to imbue in them, and as such, would have fewer.

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Corruption
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32 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2018 :  06:02:39  Show Profile Send Corruption a Private Message  Reply with Quote
However, they normally select powerful beings as Exarchs, which means they do not have to spend much, if any power on the Exarchs.
For example, if Bane made Szass Tam an Exarch with control over Thay, then he would not have to help him any more since Szass is powerful enough not to need help.
Short term gains may be achieved by seeming to bless a hero, but making them an Exarch. If they get a cult following, they may remain as an Exarch.

This has the advantage of allowing the Exarch to focus on sub areas that the God would not, or make it more appealing.
In a way, Christian Saints could be considered minor Exarchs to the Christian God. That's not I see the Saints.

When all, even Gods, must die, then live a life worth living
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2020 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2018 :  08:10:26  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Once again I'm going to connect the modern edition with old basic D&D. Flashback to the old Immortal Rules system. In the old system, gods, etc. had what were called "Power Points" which they could spend to accomplish goals. One thing they could spend them on was empowering mortal servants with their own power - very much like the 2nd/3rd edition Chosen / Seraphs and the 4th Ed. exarchs (the exarch term was more vague though, with full gods being counted as exarchs sometimes which made no sense to me.) Either way, it cost the god their own power to do this.

Some hiccups with conversion to FR. Mystra, unlike the other gods, does seem to have an inexhaustible amount of power. Her limits are the constraints of that power put into effect by Ao (she can't just take all the magic from her enemies), and the amount of control she has over herself and all magic. She then spends her power on "exarchs" to develop a new, more complex system of control.

The biggest flaw in your theory is the set of rules gods have to play by. With the exception of Cyric, the god of lies, gods can't just go around lying about what their portfolio is. That is counter to their nature. Therefore, should a god give a mortal follower enough power that said follower becomes worshiped as a god, it would effectively create a new, low level god - a quasi-or demi-god. If this god has a portfolio that clashes with the god because he/she was lying, then that god just spent its own power to create a new power in opposition to itself. Obviously this is self defeating.
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Corruption
Seeker

32 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2018 :  04:51:09  Show Profile Send Corruption a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In 5th Ed, Exarchs do not actually need to recieve power from their Gods, and are often pretty powerful to start with. And when they do, they most often bring the god more power via belief then the God uses to help the Exarch.
I do not know the old system, but I see there is often confusion when converting from one system to another, so I don't bother looking at the old ones.

If an Exarch gets worshiped enough, they may become a demi-god. I think Exarchs are by their nature quasi-deities. However, they would cover a small area of their Patron's portfolio.
In theory an Exarch can be beholden to their Patron, and expand in areas where their Patron is unable to. For example, A god of Hunters can have an Exarch of Murder, who (when they become a demi-diety) in turn can have an Exarch of Poisons. Yes, I know those position are already taken in FR, but the idea remains.

When all, even Gods, must die, then live a life worth living
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Fineva
Seeker

Canada
65 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2018 :  05:59:40  Show Profile Send Fineva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with you, the DM guide lists boons as powers on the way to Demi god hood. Considering that tier 3/-4 can obtain them from a module (but not use until level 20, this could be an example of exarch status from levels 11-20

I"
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe

USA
129 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2018 :  05:25:02  Show Profile  Visit Storyteller Hero's Homepage Send Storyteller Hero a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Exarchs don't become quasi-deities upon becoming exarchs, unless that's what the Overgod has decided for the crystal sphere. If they become a deity of some sort, it's probably because of help they get from their superior after becoming an exarch.

In Realmspace, it's not that simple to become any type of deity.

Exarchs are typically already deities to begin with, growing stronger and safer through support and protection from their chosen superior.

Another benefit of being an Exarch is minions, subordinates that take orders from the Exarch.







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Edited by - Storyteller Hero on 25 Sep 2018 05:27:56
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Corruption
Seeker

32 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  09:19:26  Show Profile Send Corruption a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the ranking system in Faith and Pantheons, I think Exarchs would be rank 0. (Page 5-6)
This also explains why I use Quai-deity for them, and not consider Quasi-deity as a proper diety needing an Overgod's approval.
quote:

Rank 0: Creatures of this rank are often calles Quasi-Deities or hero deities. Creatures that have a mortal and a Deity as parents also fall into this category. These entities cannot grant spells, but are immortal and usually have one or more ability scores that are far above the norm for their species. They may have some worshippers. Ordenary mortals do not have a Divine rank of 0. They lack a divine rank altogether.
Rank 1-5: These entities, called demi-gods, are the weakest of the genuine deities . . . .


Something else that was added latter if that they can pass belief in them to their Patron, and the organizational placement itself. They came together.

When all, even Gods, must die, then live a life worth living
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