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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe

Philippines
127 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2018 :  05:28:24  Show Profile  Visit creyzi4zb12's Homepage Send creyzi4zb12 a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So apparently Timeless is set to release this September.
I think there's so much Drizzt lore already. But at least it's better than nothing.

Are there any new novels coming this year besides those focusing on Drizzt?

I wish they'd continue the Brotherhood of the Griffon series, that one was definitely going somewhere on their latest adventures.

orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2987 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2018 :  05:34:14  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Briefly put, no.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
489 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2018 :  21:46:57  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love Drizzt, but I'd also like to get more FR stories.

Hopefully Timeless is successful enough to get more stories in the Realms.

Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
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jordanz
Senior Scribe

510 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2018 :  23:37:10  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12

So apparently Timeless is set to release this September.
I think there's so much Drizzt lore already. But at least it's better than nothing.

Are there any new novels coming this year besides those focusing on Drizzt?

I wish they'd continue the Brotherhood of the Griffon series, that one was definitely going somewhere on their latest adventures.



Yes that was an awesome series. I would also like to see...

More Erevis Cale and his son
More Araevin (Final Gate) - this character is so underutilized
More FFlar and a novel that ties him into the Mystery Of Demron(I think he just disappeared) and the swords....
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2267 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2018 :  21:50:52  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So far, all we have is Drizzt, but I'm hoping that changes.

Sweet water and light laughter
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charger_ss24
Learned Scribe

USA
108 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2018 :  22:11:27  Show Profile Send charger_ss24 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just thought of something, which I don't think has been touched on. Will Timeless be the start of a trilogy, or will it be a standalone novel?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5312 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2018 :  04:08:02  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It’s the first in a trilogy. Salvatore’s new novels aren’t the precursor to any other FR novels by other authors or a resurrection of the novels dept in general.

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 11 Aug 2018 04:08:30
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John Daker
Acolyte

USA
14 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2018 :  15:25:32  Show Profile Send John Daker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Salvatore’s new novels aren’t the precursor to any other FR novels by other authors or a resurrection of the novels dept in general.


Several authors of Realms novels have expressed hope that these new Salvatore books might signal at least the possibility of further opportunities for publishing Realms fiction. And of course most of us who post at Candlekeep hope the same!

But I know that you, George, are more well-informed than most of us...

I guess what I'm asking is, when you visited Ed recently, did he express renewed pessimism on this point?

Edited by - John Daker on 13 Aug 2018 15:26:07
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5312 Posts

Posted - 15 Aug 2018 :  00:31:25  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He told me what is already known widely in publishing circles: Salvatore sells way more books than any FR author, Ed included. Salvatore found a publisher who believes that it can make money after paying Bob, paying WotC a license fee and factoring in the cost of production and advertising. Those numbers don’t stack up for any other FR author.

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

691 Posts

Posted - 15 Aug 2018 :  06:45:20  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

He told me what is already known widely in publishing circles: Salvatore sells way more books than any FR author, Ed included. Salvatore found a publisher who believes that it can make money after paying Bob, paying WotC a license fee and factoring in the cost of production and advertising. Those numbers don’t stack up for any other FR author.

— George Krashos



Maybe if some of the other authors got the same marketing and publicity that Salvatore gets they'd sell more novels too.
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
804 Posts

Posted - 15 Aug 2018 :  23:25:21  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

He told me what is already known widely in publishing circles: Salvatore sells way more books than any FR author, Ed included. Salvatore found a publisher who believes that it can make money after paying Bob, paying WotC a license fee and factoring in the cost of production and advertising. Those numbers don’t stack up for any other FR author.

— George Krashos



Maybe if some of the other authors got the same marketing and publicity that Salvatore gets they'd sell more novels too.


What marketing and publicity?

Bob never got special treatment in that area. The Drizzt gang blew up organically in popularity on an even playing field with the rest of FR Authors.

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Caolin
Senior Scribe

691 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2018 :  02:39:21  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
What marketing and publicity?

Bob never got special treatment in that area. The Drizzt gang blew up organically in popularity on an even playing field with the rest of FR Authors.





Are you kidding? Of course he got special treatment. His novels outsold everyone. But my point was that instead of trying to develop other authors and stories (which they did with Erin M. Evans for a while) they just ditch everyone else and leave us with more tired and boring Drizzt stories.

I enjoy Bob's cast of characters as much as anyone else. But it gets old real quick, especially when I know that there is a whole world of stories waiting to be told.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5312 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2018 :  12:12:29  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The fact remains that all of those “other stories” told by different authors didn’t sell anywhere near the copies Salvatore sold for his Drizzt novels. You may have found them tired and boring, but you were in the minority of FR novel buyers in that regard.

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

691 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2018 :  21:55:46  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

The fact remains that all of those “other stories” told by different authors didn’t sell anywhere near the copies Salvatore sold for his Drizzt novels. You may have found them tired and boring, but you were in the minority of FR novel buyers in that regard.

— George Krashos



Yeah, I mentioned that in my comments. I'll admit that I'm resentful that Drizzt fans didn't pay attention to the other novels. I saw this coming to with the boycotting during the Spellplague era. Those that actually cared enough to boycott were those who actually read all the non-Drizzt novels.

Edited by - Caolin on 17 Aug 2018 18:33:17
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1792 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2018 :  13:37:55  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Those who boycotted had every right in the world to do so. But if someone boycotted then and is lamenting the lack of novels now, that person may be missing a certain link between cause and effect.

Edited by - Richard Lee Byers on 17 Aug 2018 13:39:27
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Taleras
Seeker

72 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2018 :  13:50:32  Show Profile Send Taleras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to imagine, that if Salvatore's new novels find success that they would eventually consider adding additional authors down the line. Maybe not right away, but it's got to be a possibility. Especially if the licensing fee is already done (assuming that wasn't specifically for Drizzt and includes all of FR and doesn't need to be done again with other authors).
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5312 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2018 :  22:12:00  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Telaras, there is nothing more powerful in the world than hope, but it’s misplaced for you to think that Salvatore’s deal will translate into work by other FR authors. That’s extremely unlikely. This event is a false dawn for the FR novel line.

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31602 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2018 :  04:09:13  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Part of the issue is what we've been seeing with WotC for a while:

Exec 1: "This could make some money... Maybe even more than this other thing!"

Exec 2: "Yeah, but this other thing WILL make some money. Your thing could make money, but mine will definitely make money."

Exec 1: "You're saying we shouldn't take a chance on more money?"

Exec 2: "That's exactly right. This thing has made money the other 2,374.2 times we've done it, so we know it'll make money again. We're going to keep going back to that well as long as we can."

While there is certainly a degree of sense in not taking unnecessary chances, the leadership at WotC appears to have forgotten that taking chances has sometimes worked out very, very well for them. To be fair, taking chances has backfired on them -- look at 4E.

Taking chances has risks, and we'd not even be having this discussion if TSR hadn't taken a chance, lo these many moons ago... But I think the current leadership is too afraid of making a mistake to try anything that isn't a sure bet, even if the potential is there for the next big thing.

It appears to me that they've gotten so risk-averse that they won't try anything unless it's damn near carved in stone that it will succeed for them.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
305 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2018 :  05:41:36  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Our only hope now is what Ed said regarding the FR movie... if it does well enough maybe it'll mean more FR novels aside from Drizzt. :'(
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2987 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2018 :  05:48:58  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

The fact remains that all of those “other stories” told by different authors didn’t sell anywhere near the copies Salvatore sold for his Drizzt novels. You may have found them tired and boring, but you were in the minority of FR novel buyers in that regard.

— George Krashos



Yeah, I mentioned that in my comments. I'll admit that I'm resentful that Drizzt fans didn't pay attention to the other novels. I saw this coming to with the boycotting during the Spellplague era. Those that actually cared enough to boycott were those who actually read all the non-Drizzt novels.



You talk about boycotting, and while I'm sure that there were people who did indeed boycott, wouldn't it also be logical to assume that many people lost interest in the Realms after what WotC did to it? Their changes targeted so much of what was iconic, and fast-forwarded the Realms 100 years into the future. Since WotC was adamant that they had made the "right choice", it was basically a message that they weren't going to put out material that the people who were let down could enjoy. So, at that point, it became more of a matter of not wasting money on something they no longer enjoyed.

If a company makes tomatoes, and then it shifts to potatoes, it's going to lose customers who don't like potatoes.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 18 Aug 2018 05:50:47
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jdb1972
Acolyte

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2018 :  16:47:41  Show Profile Send jdb1972 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
You talk about boycotting, and while I'm sure that there were people who did indeed boycott, wouldn't it also be logical to assume that many people lost interest in the Realms after what WotC did to it? Their changes targeted so much of what was iconic, and fast-forwarded the Realms 100 years into the future. Since WotC was adamant that they had made the "right choice", it was basically a message that they weren't going to put out material that the people who were let down could enjoy. So, at that point, it became more of a matter of not wasting money on something they no longer enjoyed.

If a company makes tomatoes, and then it shifts to potatoes, it's going to lose customers who don't like potatoes.


This. ^^^^

I've seen a lot of companies who make changes that jettison their existing base of customers/fans in favor of some hypothetical larger one. I don't know of many who haven't gone broke as a result or had to do a lot of backtracking. New Coke, anyone?

I always thought the Realms would be a good fit for the now-defunct Kindle Worlds at Amazon. Shame they never bought in.
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

691 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2018 :  08:54:39  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

You talk about boycotting, and while I'm sure that there were people who did indeed boycott, wouldn't it also be logical to assume that many people lost interest in the Realms after what WotC did to it? Their changes targeted so much of what was iconic, and fast-forwarded the Realms 100 years into the future. Since WotC was adamant that they had made the "right choice", it was basically a message that they weren't going to put out material that the people who were let down could enjoy. So, at that point, it became more of a matter of not wasting money on something they no longer enjoyed.

If a company makes tomatoes, and then it shifts to potatoes, it's going to lose customers who don't like potatoes.



I don't see much of a difference between the two. It really makes no difference because in the end they're not purchasing the product.

Basically what WoTC did was gamble that the hardcore community wouldn't abandon the product due to the changes....which were made in an attempt to attract a newer and younger audience. They were wrong and as you said, they stuck to their guns.

But I think they accomplished what they wanted all along. They turned the Realms and DnD as a whole back into just a game product that was successful at attracting a newer audience. That new audience doesn't care much about the lore nor the novels. They just want to play the game.

The Salvatore book deal seems like it was completely driven by Bob and WoTC went along with it because he's a proven seller. So unless Bob and Ed are able to perform some herculean effort and make a similar deal with a larger stable of authors, we're gonna be left with only Drizzt and friends. Because WoTC seems to have no desire to do so on their own.
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
305 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2018 :  18:56:14  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just wonder when people will realize how repetitive the Drizzt books are. Maybe I'm jaded from having read all of them but there's nothing new anymore, and that's even more obvious than how WotC's campaign model was, "Here's this NEW threat that'll destroy the world! It really will this time if you don't stop it! It's definitely more sure to do so than that last one you stopped!" The repetition in the Drizzt books is always the same type of thing, there are these characters that are supposed to be different but are basically the same people but with different names and different weapons, and then there's the same plot repeating over and over again with a demon threat and/or a new Matron Mother of Menzoberranzan with a "newer and better" plan to take over the surface and she's got a chance because her plan is supposedly better than the previous Matron Mother who tried the same thing but failed and she's definitely got more of Lolth's favor than that previous Matron Mother did and... yeah.
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
489 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  13:29:55  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree that after so many books, you see a lot of repetition in the Drizzt series (my pet peeve is Drizzt's monologues), but it's easy to say something is repetitive when you oversimplify things like that.

And the Drizzt series is hardly the only example of repetition like that in the Realms. Just look at Ed's books: Manshoon has a plan, plan goes nicely for a bit, plan goes down the drain due to stupidity, Manshoon is, once again, shown to be incompetent.

Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2987 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  13:35:22  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:

I don't see much of a difference between the two. It really makes no difference because in the end they're not purchasing the product.

Basically what WoTC did was gamble that the hardcore community wouldn't abandon the product due to the changes....which were made in an attempt to attract a newer and younger audience. They were wrong and as you said, they stuck to their guns.


The difference that I was pointing out is that there were many people who probably didn't stop buying novels (or D&D products) with the goal of harming WotC, but simply because they had lost their interest due to WotC's changes. Unless you're rich, you don't have the luxury to throw money at something that you won't use, but that you one liked, in the hope to see it flourish again in the future. But yeah, from a practical viewpoint, it makes no difference.

quote:
But I think they accomplished what they wanted all along. They turned the Realms and DnD as a whole back into just a game product that was successful at attracting a newer audience. That new audience doesn't care much about the lore nor the novels. They just want to play the game.



I don't think that's what they wanted, not at the beginning at least. If they wanted that in 4e, they could have simply stopped the novel line back then, but they only did so when it proved unprofitable for their standards.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 20 Aug 2018 13:36:09
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
305 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  19:47:56  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

I agree that after so many books, you see a lot of repetition in the Drizzt series (my pet peeve is Drizzt's monologues), but it's easy to say something is repetitive when you oversimplify things like that.

And the Drizzt series is hardly the only example of repetition like that in the Realms. Just look at Ed's books: Manshoon has a plan, plan goes nicely for a bit, plan goes down the drain due to stupidity, Manshoon is, once again, shown to be incompetent.



I don't feel that it is fair to say that I'm over-simplifying. I've read the ARC of Timeless and took down extensive notes during it, for the purposes of a detailed analysis requested by the followers of my blog. I'm not here to do what I'm doing for my blog, but my comment was specific enough to summarize the plot of Timeless, but at the same time, apparently convey a sense of vagueness and generality that caused you to think I was over-simplifying because what I wrote can indeed be applied to any Drizzt book and/or the series as a whole. I think this is more due to the nature of the individual books themselves, rather than an intentional act of over-simplification on my part. In any case, I don't mean to spoiler the book, and I apologize if I have, but if I were to give you specific examples to illustrate my stance, that would definitely be spoilering it. We should probably just agree to disagree about the Drizzt books though, since different people can be very passionate about them. Rather than dancing around my feelings, I'll just say that I think that they're third-rate fantasy novels at best. My experience in getting into it with people who think they're first-rate fantasy novels is that it turns out pretty unpleasant for all involved parties, so it's something I'd like to avoid if at all possible. Also, just for clarification's purpose, since this comment quoted your post Tanthalas, I'm not making the claim that you're one of these people, I'm just saying that I think we might inherently disagree on some things and I'm happy to agree to disagree.

As far as other FR books are concerned, I don't think that them being repetitive has any bearing on the Drizzt books being repetitive, and vice versa. IMO, repetition isn't a good way to write and tell stories, and this doesn't change just because more than one author or creative does it. But again, this is just my opinion and my personal complaint.

I want these books to be better. Timeless is actually a lot better than most of what Bob has written, heck, I'll even freely and happily say that it's the best book Bob's written to date. It felt a lot more Realmsian than many of its predecessors in the series in that the scope of the world feels wider, rather than just concentration on Bob's own little corner of the Realms, and I don't mean just in terms of the physical locations it spans. There's a greater consideration and inclusion of facets of the shared world as a whole, a broader and better acknowledgement of what's been established and developed by others. Furthermore, the writing style is more evocative and the fight scenes are punchier. All of this makes me a bit more optimistic for the future. I wish I could be full-blown excited, but imo the Homecoming Trilogy was such a travesty that I can't help but feel trepidation as well, especially since Bob is going to be the ONLY author we'll get for future FR novels (for as far as we can determine at this point anyway). From a rich history of so many works from so many different authors, that's a really hard reality for me to adjust to. It'd be a big burden for any author to bear, to carry on that legacy by themselves, and and until Timeless, I didn't get the feeling from the Drizzt books that Bob even cared about bearing it. Again, Timeless makes me hopeful because it seemed like he was actually trying, that he's changing his previous biases toward certain aspects of the Realms (i.e. the intentional erasure of E+V). So far, things are indeed very repetitive, but it's only the first book in the trilogy. We'll see how it turns out after the next two books. Hey, maybe the Matron Mothers will succeed in taking over the surface world and we'll be living under drow overladies for the next century. :P I don't see WotC ever allowing that, though.

Edited by - sno4wy on 20 Aug 2018 21:12:33
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