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Vizier
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2018 :  17:44:30  Show Profile Send Vizier a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Looking for any details of the time of dragons. A dream would be a map of territories and some details of the different dragon empires and potential strengths and settlements of said empires. Is there anything resembling details of this age?

Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2412 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2018 :  17:51:03  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm sorry. I saw the title and all I could think of was the old Flight of Dragons cartoon. I now have its theme song stuck in my head, which makes me obligated to share it with as many others as I can...

Uh... your question... Have you checked the Grand History of the Realms? It has a few hints about the dragon kingdoms, including some names and suggestions on where a few might be. No map, unfortunately.

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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Vizier
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2018 :  18:07:13  Show Profile Send Vizier a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Have read novels and certainly was intrigued by the hints in grand history. Just looking for some meat on the bone. Such a wonderful time period of possibilities. Of course I'd love a source good of the batrachi and one of the time of dragon kingdoms where they cover dragons and giants.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3838 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2018 :  19:51:36  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh my god. I loved that film when I was younger, didn't think anyone else would have watched it. The theme tune was criminally unimaginative though

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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
459 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2018 :  20:30:39  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Map of Batrachi times is on page 6 in GHotR.
There are few kingdoms mentioned directly in entry for Time of Dragons: Argissthilliax, Caesinmalsvir, Darastriverthicha (Southern Netheril, Caecinsjach, green dragon), and Tharkrixghontix
There is also another possible mentioned on p.9 - Zexthandrim (Mountains of Copper and farther)

Others might be hidden in numerous sourcebooks including Dragons of Faerun.
Most notorious locale would be Dragon Reach (Cormyr, Westgate) and Dragon Sea (Moonsea).
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Vizier
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2018 :  00:45:02  Show Profile Send Vizier a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Have all these books and just hoping there is more material out there. :(
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6915 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2018 :  03:11:40  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't say I remember much on it, but one of the realms of anthologies had a short story set back then. I don't know which one, or what it was about even... but maybe in the realms of dragons anthology?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5082 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2018 :  03:27:26  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I came up with this. Fan lore of course, not official.

Before -2550 DR, there is no Great Glacier in the Unapproachable East and Cold Lands. Sure there is an ice sheet and polar cap, but I've always considered that what existed there was a huge taiga region clustered around the various mountain ranges that are best shown in the map provided by the FR Atlas by Karen Wynn Fonstad on pgs.6-7. This is where the dragons and then the giants mostly established their realms, warred and ultimately brought an end to their respective periods of preeminence. I say mostly because there were indeed giant and draconic presences in more southerly regions and indeed in what was known as the Riildath and is now the two wooded regions known as the Forest of Lethyr and the Rawlinswood.

It is indeed likely that in the dim ages this was one great wooded region, with the icy forests of the taiga giving way to more temperate forests as one travelled south. It is also likely that the wars between the giants and the dragons did deforest portions of the woodlands. As to when that may have occurred, the likely timing is for several thousand years after c. -25,000 DR as Ostoria declined from a cohesive whole to a series of giant sub-kingdoms: sub-kingdoms that the remaining vengeful and most powerful dragons saw as vulnerable to attack. While the "Time of Dragons" is delineated as being for a set period in the FR historical sources, I like to think that the end of that period of draconic mastery did not mean the end of draconic kingdoms, powerful wyrms controlling territory or wyrms receiving the fealty and submission of 'lesser races'. What it means in my book was that for the first time, draconic power was under challenge and that they indeed fell from that position of preeminence that they had previously enjoyed. In simple terms, the dragons no longer ruled all, displayed less open power and authority and were hunted and slain by the lesser races that they had previously dismissed as mere food or useful slaves. In this regard, the giants lead the way by the greatest measure but in holding forth as the dragons' biggest foe (literally and figuratively) they too were weakened and lost the power most readily exemplified by great Ostoria.

So, to the details. The woodlands of the Ashanath were ravaged in c. -18,000 DR with the fall of the realm of the great red dragon Ashanaglathos, whose primary lair was in the present-day Firward Mountains and extended south to the area of present-day Twostars, west and north in an arc to the area of Bezentil and and then northeasterly to his mountain lair. Succumbing to the dracorage he is thought to have been drowned in the Lake of Tears when the waters rose up and took him after he had brought fire and destructions to his own holdings on the western shore as well as the fey-haunted woodlands of the eastern shore (the Ashanwood is named after him when centuries later a draconic tooth of huge size washed up on the eastern shore in the Year of the Dragonstar (99 DR). From there it was taken into the woods by the Witches of Rashemen where they wove a great warding akin to a mythal preventing the "spawn of Ashanaglathos and all who had partaken of his blood" from entering the home of the telthor. Rashemen remains a land rarely troubled by dragons to this day.

Ashanaglathos was known to have hobgoblin servitors and after his death, and it is stated that many of them searched out and slew his wyrmlings, destroyed unhatched eggs and used those eggs to augment their own strength, longevity and mastery of magic. The fall of the dragon's kingdom saw his servants scattered, with the most powerful hobgoblins trekking north to join kin, but some moving west into the forests where they eked out a nomadic existence, avoiding the bigger races.

Other dragons did rule kingdoms in and around the Unapproachable East, but most are dead or disappeared from living memory. One of the most enduring was the green dragon Galaminthautor, who ruled the woodland comprised of the present-day Forest of Lethyr from the time of the dracorage to the coming of the dark elves of Ilythiir (those woodlands extending much further south, to the borders of present-day Thesk in those long ago days). The Ilythiiri are thought to have either slain or enslaved her after a titanic struggle and she was not seen or heard of again after c. -10,250 DR.

The white dragon Norfaerhoern is believed to have ruled from a lair located in the northern most peak of the present-day Icerim Mountains. Less savage than the standard dragons of his ilk, Norfaerhoern is known to have wielded amazing magics including allowing him to alter temperatures and sustain life in otherwise inhospitable polar regions. He is believed to have created several 'hidden valley' lairs throughout the northern reaches of the East where he would stash food (on the hoof - rothe in the main), treasure and lore on rune magic plundered from the giants. Human prehistoric tales talk of the 'Cloud of Claws' and the 'Yellow Eye of Frost', both thought to refer to Norfaerhoern, but his passing was not noted and it is unknown how and when he left the world, if at all.

Perhaps one of the most interesting tales of the dragons of the East is that of a dragon of unknown species known only as Orslinn, or "the Great Slave" in the tongue of the serpentfolk. This dragon is thought to have been taken as a hatchling by the Ba'etith with the advent of the Time of Dragons and nurtured by this mysterious group for purposes unknown. When the Thousand Year War commenced some sages postulate that in an attempt to return to past glories, the final gambit of the sarrukh was realised. Orslinn was unleashed upon the draconic avatar of Garyx and slew him in a huge battle over the skies of the present-day Tortured Lands, preventing the dragons from regaining hegemony over the Realms. With the fall of Ostoria, the sarrukh believed that they could return to their position of power but the departure of most of the sarrukh of Okoth had left that realm too weak to seize its opportunity and the other sarrukh realms were not in a position to take advantage. The fate of Orslinn is unknown but there are some sages who believe that he lives on in stasis, perhaps somewhere deep underneath the Dragonjaw Mountains, awaiting the next sarrukh gambit and attempt to return to power in the Realms.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3838 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2018 :  11:58:45  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another post for the archive. I like the tolkienesque name and the hoarfaern origin is great I'll be using that.

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Vizier
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2018 :  22:07:10  Show Profile Send Vizier a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The anthology story is what intrigued me about the time period. Dragon lords that ruled realms. Used other races as "allies" that were really just resources and disposable vassal.
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1034 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2018 :  02:07:45  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can get some canon stuff in Dragons of Faerūn. Of note, some dragons enslaved humanoids (mostly, chromatics) while others allied with them (metallics). Both taught humanoids stuff like technology and warfare, that made posible the rise of the first primitive civilizations among humans and other demihuman races.

Also, the dragons fought a series of wars among themselves while fighting against giants and others. Those wars were religious in nature. Besides classic Bahamut vs Tiamat stuff (you can get some hint of that in the Grand History, with names such as "Nagamat"), the conflict born by dragons trying to define Asgorath's (Io) true nature was the conflict that claimed most dragon lives, according to 2e Draconomicon. They also fought their natural battles as well (red vs silver, and stuff).

Eventually, dragons decided that the conflict must stop because they were killing each other to the point they feared extinction. Besides Bahamut and Tiamat, most dragon gods lost their followers, as they believed those gods unworthy. Most dragon gods died from lack of faith (2e Draconomicon). Dunno why the dragon siblings didn't lost their followers... Dragons also created the Xorvintaal game to settle differences and stuff. You can check Monster Manual V (3e) for rules on how to play Xorvintaal, if you're interested.

I will going to steal George's post, as well.

You can also check the wiki for references:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Time_of_Dragons

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Draconic_pantheon

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dragonfall_War

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/The_Thousand_Year_War

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Xorvintaal

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 03 Apr 2018 02:09:56
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1426 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2018 :  12:13:30  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You should check the Candlekeep Compendium, volume IV.

http://www.candlekeep.com/compendium/

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Vizier
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2018 :  22:53:49  Show Profile Send Vizier a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All good lore. Will have to create my own fanlore on these realms it seems. So much fan lore is very much worthy of publication. We need more material like Dungeon Dragon and the plethora of novels.
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