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portose_sharpe
Seeker

Ireland
66 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2018 :  19:57:36  Show Profile Send portose_sharpe a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Player : Human High level Wizard / cleric of Helm. lawful good
Rules : 3.5 settings - home made timeline -

Background.
The pc is part of a 80% lawful good council that rules over 5 city/towns. the rest of the pcs in the group also sit on the council along with 5 high ranking Clerics from Helm, Tyr, Illmater, Msytra, Tempus.

The Pc in question was the ruler on his own town but he joined his town with the council lands and thus gave up full control of his former land is place of it being ruled by the council on which is had a seat on.

A Neighboring nation was attacking another nation - Turmish was attacking Chondath. as a per warning the pc sent a letter to the king of Turmish warning if his men/army entered his lands the council would destroy them. The king of Turmish took this as a threat and started gathering men on the border. When the council found out about his they where shocked at this action ( the letter ) was take without the council knowledge and in turn started hostilities with Turmish. The council already trying to help a invaded teyther and overrun waterdeep couldn't afford a war with Turmish, and the king of Turmish offered for the pc to publicly apologize for this threat. The king of turmish said he would march an army towards the city and the only way for it to stop would be for the pc to say he was sorry, the pc after refusing at first finally agreed to the councils decision.

Before the pc meet with the king with the aid of very powerful magic and successful bluff checks & a detailed plan, he sneaked into the army camp dominated with commander, stole any planeshift spells from the wizards spellbooks, and got the commander to command them through a magical gate to a difference plane. all of this was done behind the council back without their knowledge.

Now in the pc's mind he thought the army was trapped on this plane with no means of escape or way of contacting home for help. ( he misread scry and sending and their power to cross planes). The plane was neutral with breathable air etc.

When finally in-front of the king he said he was sorry for the letter, and then the king accused the pc of attacking his army, which the pc loosely denied, the king doesn't know if he did it or not, but he wanted him to be arrested and put on trial. If he was guilty great if not he took him out of the picture for a while. it took a very powerful spell caster which the pc is and the pc is known for his dominating. also with the letter the pc is already on the kings radar. The pc was able to magical teleport away. the npc cleric of helm said we must get the town ready for an attack not questioning the pc, believing there cannot be any truth to these "lies" and when another npc council member the cleric of msytra asked where what the king said true, the pc ignored the cleric and walked away. maybe he wanted to avoid the question maybe he was playing how dare you question my honor card.

When the other pcs tried to contact him about his whereabouts he was been very vague and unwilling to meet to discuss what happened, he said he would be along when he could, the next day, he had other plans. he was meeting up with an old friend out in the wilderness.

Now the pc gained some information that the son(king) was involved or knew about his fathers assassination. ( a man the pc never meant) and for this is believes the king of Turmish is part of this much larger group that is trying to take over Faerun.

Now the pc has in other games stated that he felt his character was slipping from lawful good to lawful neutral. and my question is has be gone to far or has be gone just far enough now for me to change his alignment, to his desired alignment or was his actions very chaotic.


thanks for any input, i hope his reads well. lol

Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe

Canada
94 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2018 :  03:36:37  Show Profile Send Balmar Foghaven a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Greetings portose_sharpe,

Character alignment is meant to be used as a loose guideline which represents how they act as a whole, rather than a restriction which dictates a PC's actions. A lawful good character may, from time to time, break the law if there is a necessity to do so, and in war killing others is deemed a necessary evil if it means protecting others. Essentially, they try their best to follow a code that they or their society has set for them.

HOWEVER!! In this case, the pc has blatantly disregarded the lawful edicts of a ruling council which he himself is part of, acting behind their backs to sow discord among the troops of an army HE PROVOKED to begin with by uttering death threats. Not only is he - in the King of Turmish's point of view - the villain, he is also possibly provoking war without concern for his own people he is supposedly in charge of. Especially if all this can be solved with a simple APOLOGY, the subsequent removal of an army seems a bit drastic and reckless, no?

This despotic display screams Chaotic Neutral to me, with shades of evil in there. If this is his regular behavior, this is in NO WAY a Lawful Good character. This reminds me of the time one of my players insisted that he was carrying out Tyr's justice by decapitating several (supposedly) guilty individuals in the town square with his own greatsword...

"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline."
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Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe

Canada
94 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2018 :  03:37:15  Show Profile Send Balmar Foghaven a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm honestly trying to figure out that pc's motives, but other than to stir shit up, I'm honestly quite stumped.

Edit: Also, I just noticed: cleric of Helm?!? Such a brash provocation hardly helps his nation with their own defense, does it? Protecting others should be his top priority... good thing he's not an oath-bound paladin

"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline."

Edited by - Balmar Foghaven on 22 Mar 2018 03:41:08
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portose_sharpe
Seeker

Ireland
66 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2018 :  22:31:50  Show Profile Send portose_sharpe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thanks for your reply.

ya i aint to sure myself, i believe he wanted the army to disappear so if they king refused his apology he would have no army to attack with.
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Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe

Canada
94 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2018 :  10:01:48  Show Profile Send Balmar Foghaven a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Glad to be of assistance

Let me know what developments occur; I'm rather interested in seeing how this plays out.

"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline."
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portose_sharpe
Seeker

Ireland
66 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2018 :  19:04:19  Show Profile Send portose_sharpe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*** Update ***

The Council ruling the cities held another meeting to discuss the events that happened. before this meeting took place the The pc wrote a letter to the council, expressing his feelings about the council and how he felt they where not listing his is voice. in this letter he said that the council valued money more that helping innocents. he also stated that the cleric's of tyr, msytra, illmater, and helm where all only on the council because they purchased their seat( money they all gave to help rebuild the pcs towns and pay for there followers[ two of the pcs have epic leadership] ) he also spoke of the good he has done and the help he gave others without complaining, he then said he was taking his town back and leaving the alliance, removing himself from the council, finishing which if they ever needed his help he would do so.

The council decided that he was not the best person to protect this town, giving his actions, his unwillingness to discuss the matter and his insults in the letter. some felt he was acting quite like a coward giving his answer in a letter form. So again before they made their ruling they asked the pc to return to the city to discuss the events. again he refused to come but instead offered to meet them on his land/town. the council agreed.

The pc arrived at the meeting fully spelled up, and soon the pc took aggressive tones, regarding his actions with the army and how they are questioning his honorer, he denied his involvement down to the ground. and refused a zone of truth spell in front of the king to prove his word true. and stop any more troops movements that could lead to lives lost. the pc also said he doesn't need to prove himself or answer to the king or to the council on this. He also stated that he doesn't need to take on the army he just need to take out the person in charge, and the next king would think twice about messing with him, after an army and king disappeared.

During this meeting he failed bluff checks with a follow pc and the high cleric of tyr npc. so they feel he was not been completely honest.the Council then felt they said all that was needed and furthering this conversation with the pc was going to go no were, so the meeting was ended.

I should also point out at this stage that the pc is a chosen of Helm. 1 of 3 on the plane.

A follow pc who made his sense motive check is asking the cleric of helm to commune with his God to see if there is any truth to these claims as it could of started a needless war and cost lives and again he believes he is lying. The cleric of msytra council member is also pushing for his commune.

The council have allowed him to stay living in the city, but if the cleric does commune and learns the truth of his lies and sneakiness that may change.
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4348 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2018 :  19:40:56  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Helm should be upset.

Trying to decide what the council sould do if I had a PC on it. The problem is knowing things that the PCs do not yet know to be the facts,

I do however believe Helm clearly should act to call in his Chosen, or at least rvoke that status.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe

Canada
94 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2018 :  13:49:49  Show Profile Send Balmar Foghaven a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree, if he is in fact actually among Helm`s Chosen I`m certain that the god would not stand idly by while the pc breaks every single one of his tenets.

I`m still trying to figure out the pc`s motivations... claiming that his fellow council members care only for gold and not innocent lives seems a bit odd considering what just happened before - rather hypocritical. Perhaps he is secretly praying to Cyric now and is trying to cause strife ;)

"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline."
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