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MathiasSymbaern
Acolyte

USA
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Posted - 10 Aug 2017 :  04:59:51  Show Profile  Visit MathiasSymbaern's Homepage Send MathiasSymbaern a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Repairing the Weave seems a monumental task. I am running a campaign where the PC's might eventually want to repair parts of the weave of the dead magic areas. Shar is using these magic dead zones to create enclaves where shadow magic has an exclusive claim. Using a Wish or a Miracle spell are the only ways I have found in official lore that will repair these zones. Any ideas what else might work so my characters can feel useful before they get to level 17?

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6239 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2017 :  09:33:13  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Spells like wish, limited wish, alter reality, and miracle can repair small areas of damaged Weave, as you know.

The silverfire wielded by Mystra's Chosen can be used to repair large areas of damaged Weave, although doing so depletes the Chosen (and apparently also Mystra) for a time.

Specialty priests of Mystra (of sufficient level) have a Mystra-granted power to repair sections of broken Weave.

(They also have a Mystra-granted power to cast spells and operate magics normally into, within, or across dead-magic and wild-magic zones. Which would give them an obvious and overwhelming advantage over all other spellcasters and magic-using beings within these areas. So it seems unwise for them to repair these zones and remove this advantage, lol, yet still they must follow their religious dogma and do as their goddess commands.)

There are/were a few special damaged areas of the Weave which cannot be repaired by mortals or by Chosen or (evidently) by Mystra herself, including:
- the wild-zone "Helmlands" aka "Pits of Mystra" where Helm slew a Mystra
- the dead-zone named "Torm's Fall" aka "the entire northern half of the city of Tantras" where Bane's avatar slew Torm's avatar
- the residual "shadow-zone" (once mythallar-powered, created by the Shadovar using Shar's rituals) which covers half the Anauroch along with parts of the Black Road and surrounding regions
- certain areas of the Underdark where faerzress radiations are particularly intense
- areas changed by certain "permanent" elven High Magic rituals (along with areas warped by broken mythals and, presumably, areas changed by any sort of permanent non-Weave-based magic cast beyond 9th level)
- areas in proximity to active artifacts like Errtu's anti-magic sapphire, Netherese mythallars, fiendish gates/portals, etc
- (to a lesser extent) the entire Anauroch and any regions beyond which are still being leeched by the phaerimm lifedrain dweomers

As specified in AD&D 2E (and some D&D 3E/3.5E) rulesets and Realmslores, anyhow.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 10 Aug 2017 09:47:31
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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
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Posted - 10 Aug 2017 :  13:56:06  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Followers of Torm, as part of the Penance of Duty after the Time of Troubles, are obliged to report and repair dead-magic and wild-magic zones. This is particularly a duty of the knights of the Order of the Golden Lion. Faiths & Avatars doesn't say how, but in 3.5 edition Champions of Valor gives 6th-level paladins of the Order the power to repair a small chunk or dead or wild magic.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Golden_Lion

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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
547 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2017 :  14:07:53  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

(along with areas warped by broken mythals and, presumably, areas changed by any sort of permanent non-Weave-based magic cast beyond 9th level)


This sparked my curiosity. There was non-Weave magic before 4e?

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2017 :  15:41:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

(along with areas warped by broken mythals and, presumably, areas changed by any sort of permanent non-Weave-based magic cast beyond 9th level)


This sparked my curiosity. There was non-Weave magic before 4e?



Assuming you're familiar with the Shadow Weave... Maztica had a couple of unique types of magic, Ed has referenced a couple of others (that I don't believe have been described in game terms), and I believe the official approach to FR psionics is that each psionicist is basically tapping an internal magic, like a personal Weave.

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Zeromaru X
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Posted - 10 Aug 2017 :  21:06:27  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, Shadow Weave magic is technically "Weave" magic, but is interesting to know that pluma and hisna magics are not weave magic. Thanks for the info.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 10 Aug 2017 :  21:16:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Well, Shadow Weave magic is technically "Weave" magic, but is interesting to know that pluma and hisna magics are not weave magic. Thanks for the info.



I'm pretty sure pluma and hisna magics don't use the Weave, but don't quote me on that -- I've avoided most everything connected to Maztica, partially for the obviously derivative nature of it, and partially because I was unwilling to slog through more Douglas Niles after reading the Moonshae books.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5654 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  00:56:41  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Well, Shadow Weave magic is technically "Weave" magic, but is interesting to know that pluma and hisna magics are not weave magic. Thanks for the info.



Technically, they are a form of magic overseen by Qotal and Zaltec, but nothing ever said they aren't weave magic, nor did it say that they are. Same with the magic up in Anchorome from City of Gold that's called Fetishistic and they have a form of metamagic called Talismanic. Then there's incarnum, which isn't necessarily weave magic either, and was popular in Osse. A lot of these types of magics are more primal (for instance, a totemist draws on the power/spirits of certain animals). A lot of these in theory could work say in Abeir because of their ties to having to have some crafted thing.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  02:33:44  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A couple bits from Ed...

quote:
Faraer is right on: "Well enough" or "Aye, then." (The former is used more often between family, friends, and acquaintances, the latter between strangers, but this isn't a hard and fast rule.)
Oh, hello! Hi, all.
This time, Ed briefly surfaces from some VERY hectic writing times to answer this recent query from WalkerNinja: “Wow, I seem to be getting a lot of enjoyment out of Ed Questions instead of Realms Questions lately.
Ed, as a fellow R.E.Howard fan, I was wondering what you perceive to be Howard's "magic?" What makes him a solid author? How have his writings affected yours?
I'm interested in this question because it seems that so many fantasy authors can lay all of their accomplishments at the foot of the altar of Tolkien, and I think REH gets shorted some credit sometimes. Of course, I'm from Texas and I like to see Texans get their due.
Which leads me to another related question...
In Howard's writings magic seems to be "broken," or not balanced. Given a couple of years study and the right book, you can learn some tremendously powerful stuff and make people VERY afraid (I speak of the literature, not of the Game System). This is contrasted by the D&D system which tries to balance everything as best as possible. Since FR predates D&D, I was wondering how you originally conceived of it? Were wizards and sorcerers "cheating" their way to swift power, or did they have to slowly develop skills as surely as anyone else?”
Ed replies:



To me, Howard’s “magic” is his sheer verve and colour. The man is a strong, vivid, driving storyteller. Because he was writing primarily for the pulps, the need to tell “hero triumphs” tales in a fairly short wordcount means that a lot of his plots are very much the same - - but then, ALL writers’ plots, stripped down to bare bones, are very much the same; it’s what we hang on those bones that makes a story entertaining, memorable, or not.
I believe that the four “poles” of modern North American fantasy literature are Tolkien, Howard, Poe feeding into Lovecraft, and the lure of King Arthur; much of the verve and strength of the genre comes from the sheer room between those four writers, for later writers to “move around in.”
You’re quite correct in observing that in most Howard tales magic is evil or corrupting, and its users are to be defeated (even magic items tend to be treacherous or undeserving of trust, and allies who may use magic “pay for it”). To Howard, brawn and wits and self-reliance are the hallmarks of heroism (with “being there for your buddies” the echo note to the self-reliance). Now, not all of Conan’s (or Kull’s, or Solomon Kane’s, or . . .) opponents learn their magic from books; Howard was far more enamored of the secret cult or brotherhood that passes on knowledge in secret for centuries, or users-of-magic who can survive for centuries or even pass into undeath and “live on” that way.
Yet past these superficial categorizations, and bearing in mind that Howard loved keeping his villains as mysterious as possible because it made them more alluring, one can look at his writings and see a great variety of magical powers or results. So aside from them being “unbalanced” (in game terms, although I acknowledge this is also a literary problem lampooned by many critics of Tolkien: good just CAN’T win against this too-mighty evil - - but does), his evil magic-hurlers need not be seen as all the same.
Neither are mine. In the original Realms, magic took all sorts of forms, from table magic and spellsinging (the original spellsinger was a female with a gift for magic; she was almost powerless when alone, and did magic with nothing but her body, dancing nude around a focus, usually a fire - - so if you captured her, you had a nude female who was largely powerless; you couldn’t coerce her into working any useful magic, because she didn’t have the power to work any useful magic alone; she needed to dance with others; the more dancers, the more powerful the possible magic) to book learning and ritual (the classic wizard) to the “strange gift” of draining life energy or stored spell energy or magic item magic and converting it into a discharge, to “magic comes from within and drains me to hurl it” (the sorcerer) to sex magic, to candle magic - - I had all of these. Deliberately.
I never wanted MY Conans to “know” what they were facing. It makes for better storytelling (AND roleplaying) if the heroes are always facing the mysterious and unpredictable. Are they witnessing a rape on an altar? Or a horrific evil ritual? Or a consensual act of consecrated magic designed to work good ends (even at a possible cost of personal pain and sacrifice)? Having that doubt there makes charging the altar a moral choice instead of merely a tactical one, and therefore it “means more,” is more colourful and vivid, and more interesting.
I had some VERY powerful magic (the shoe-shine boy who when bullied by adventurers in the street can obliberate city blocks with his eye-beams) and some very minor (fat, short, lurching old man who can clean and fix shoes at a touch; he doesn’t do this in public, of course; he goes muttering into the back of his shop, works the magic, then comes back out to the customer with the “fixed” shoe and calmly demands his coins). Some of it SEEMED unbalanced (it wasn’t, but then the published Realms has never reflected the true balancing act between opposed power groups, cults, merchant trading guilds, and militaries and police forces), but then, I’ve always tried to teach adventurers that there’s always someone more powerful than you are, there’s always someone to aspire to be as accomplished and powerful as; just because you’re the adventurers, don’t expect to swagger through life knocking everyone over with your little fingers. :}
I had some people who “learned” magic instantly by touching a skull and being possessed by the mind of an ancient wizard, who possessed and controlled them. I had folk who studied for years and built up their magic slow piece by piece (and used it to make money by building and fixing things, never going adventuring). I had folk who hid their magical aptitude and used it to rise in a royal court to exalted levels, and only revealed it when menaced by the PC adventurers they’d hired to be their outside-the-law “fix unpleasant little problems” group. And so on; the variety is the spice.



So saith Ed, who hopes he’s covered the question sufficiently.
love to all,
THO



quote:
None of us can fully trust any of the creation mythos (i.e. where Mystra came from initially). All we know is that the current system of arcane spells that work, works through Mystra, who IS the Weave. The Weave is an infinite series of handles that let mortals harness the natural energies of Toril. The Weave is magic, but only part of magic (the arcane spells sort of magic), and "magic" is really only a mortal term for "a way I got power from somewhere to do this and that and this other effect." There. Clear as mud. :}

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 11 Aug 2017 02:36:39
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
547 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  05:52:53  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

A couple bits from Ed...

quote:
None of us can fully trust any of the creation mythos (i.e. where Mystra came from initially). All we know is that the current system of arcane spells that work, works through Mystra, who IS the Weave. The Weave is an infinite series of handles that let mortals harness the natural energies of Toril. The Weave is magic, but only part of magic (the arcane spells sort of magic), and "magic" is really only a mortal term for "a way I got power from somewhere to do this and that and this other effect." There. Clear as mud. :}




Thanks.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1426 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2017 :  06:00:58  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MathiasSymbaern

Repairing the Weave seems a monumental task. I am running a campaign where the PC's might eventually want to repair parts of the weave of the dead magic areas. Shar is using these magic dead zones to create enclaves where shadow magic has an exclusive claim. Using a Wish or a Miracle spell are the only ways I have found in official lore that will repair these zones. Any ideas what else might work so my characters can feel useful before they get to level 17?

It was mentioned many times (e.g. here) that many wild magic areas are not "anchored". Also, that pushing one of those into dead magic (or vice versa) cancels them out (not necessarily completely - for one, they are rarely of exactly matching sizes). Several spells can do this, but the process is obviously dangerous.
The Wizards Guild of Ravens Bluff had to do this regularly due to having an artefact producing "bubbles" of both stuck right next to them.
Presumably, the Sshamathan wizards had to handle the "bubbles" from Guardian's Tear the same way.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

There are/were a few special damaged areas of the Weave which cannot be repaired by mortals or by Chosen or (evidently) by Mystra herself, including:

Why "cannot"? It just takes time and efforts, and they have other things to do and enemies to watch for, so it's something done when they can, rather than "let's dedicate ourselves to this one task".
Also, at least faerzess and broken mythals (for most part) are not true wild magic, just unusual local conditions that mess up some spells.

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

This sparked my curiosity. There was non-Weave magic before 4e?

Aside of the Shadow Weave? High-level wild magic, while itself working like other spells, can allow to work with raw magic (e.g. Wildfire spell).
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I'm pretty sure pluma and hisna magics don't use the Weave, but don't quote me on that -- I've avoided most everything connected to Maztica

If they were non-Weave, they would be special cases for interaction (which is important, because there's still some covert action against foreign conquerors using "common" arcane magic) - at least, for detect and dispel.
And there was nothing about this. So no signs of those traditions not using the same Weave.
They are maybe a mix of arcane and divine, or maybe plain arcane, but in some ways closer to divine than usual - which is not unique, "Southern magic" tradition has something like this. That's enough to make them a bit strange.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
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Posted - 12 Aug 2017 :  19:56:40  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
elves might use some minor artefact of high magic origin, perhaps.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13822 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2017 :  21:41:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gorilla Glue?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3391 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2017 :  01:36:52  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Duct tape, definitely duct tape

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
114 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2017 :  18:07:17  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hehe
Allright, a bit more complex piece of theory. The Weave is a piece of work, continuously made by a god. It's under attack by an enemy god, allright. Is not this the same as what lots of fantasy books is about (fixing something broken); the Wheel of time series, some of Brandon Sandersons books, Final Fantasy games occationally. And Warhammer fantasy elven Mages do "fix" stagnant and broken Magic too.

I think, it sounds like ants trying to fix their broken antfarm, using tiny tubes of gorila glue and duct tape. Small, tiny magic users use the power of the Weave, to fix issues in the Weave itself.. Is non-Weave magic, or Divine power better suited than the arcane?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 14 Aug 2017 :  20:29:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Technically, they're the same. Arcane magic draws from the Weave directly, and divine magic is magic the gods drew from the Weave and then handed to their priests.

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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
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Posted - 14 Aug 2017 :  22:05:50  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade

Hehe
Is non-Weave magic, or Divine power better suited than the arcane?



The problem is that the Weave is the local rules of magic in Toril. You cannot just not use it. Magic in Toril only works through the Weave. Even gods are forced to use it.

To use non-Weave magic, you need either the Weave to be offline (like in the Spellplague), or use the magic of another plane (this is what warlocks do). Dunno if primal magic or psionics are Weave-free as well.

Or go to Abeir, where all magic is non-Weave magic,but magic is way harder to use there than in other planes.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

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Posted - 14 Aug 2017 :  23:44:29  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Except thats not true, because there is LOTS of magic on Toril itself that does not use the Weave. The folks of Zakahara and Kara-Tur have no knowledge of Mystra and her Weave, and its been canonically stated that Hishna and Pluma magic (in Maztica) do not use the Weave at all.

The first part fall sunder the purview of 'a lack of evidence is not evidence itself', so before anyone argues, I'll just toss that out (the stuff about Zakhara and K-T), but the stuff concerning Maztica is 100% true. I think there was even a discussion in one of Ed's threads years ago about that.

The way I look at it, 'Divine Magic' is 'filtered Magic'. Think of it like bottled water, and each God has their own 'brand'. Now these are some really good filters, so you can filter just about anything and get nice, clean 'water' from it. The easiest stuff to filter is Weave Magic - thats some pretty 'pure' stuff right there - very little work to be done of the god's (filter's) part. They can just put their 'stamp' on it and send it on its way. Now there is all sorts of other energy in the universe that can be used, like how primordials tap into a 'Primal' source. There is also Raw magic (the stuff Karsus discovered). Personally, I think there are two flavors of that else well (and just now another new thought popped into my head). Most energy have a 'positive' and a 'negative' polarity, and I think what Karsus found was definitely some of the negative kind* (it did create 'instant lich' after all). Anyhow, you can take that 'Raw' magic and filter it through the weave - which is what Mystra does - and get something that won't poison mortals. (So lets see, to keep going with my analogy, the gods have regular bottled water, and the primordials can make 'Mineral Water'... what does Mystra's Weave make? Seltzer? It IS rather 'effervescent' ).

Lets just drop the analogy for a sec...

My point is, the Gods CAN 'filter' any power-source they want, really. Get it all nice and ready for 'puny mortals' to use. Mystra's is easiest to work with, for many reasons. Most Gods go with it for its ease-of-use. Raw magic takes more work, but it can be managed; older gods and those that don't get along with Mystra will use that. Some, like Shar, find other sources, like Shadow. It doesn't matter - what they hand their priests is already-filtered, stamped, approved, and 'labeled' grade-'A' 'divinity juice'. It doesn't matter if you started out filtering municipal tap water or piss from a sewer - in the end, the finished product is the same.



*I just had a new thought concerning Raw Magic (and can't believe this never occurred to me before) - so what if ALL 'Raw' magic IS the 'negative' kind? We've seen no evidence of two separate types - I've just always been theorizing there must be, given everything we know about the Weave. But after the past few days of coming up with 'alternate theories' about what the Weave really is, maybe part of its purpose is to 'revitalize' the spent magical energy - the 'Raw' Magic.

This ties directly into my theory that the physical universe (prime Material) is just a giant 'dead body' (Ymir, Io, Astrogoth, whatever... didn't someone give me yet-another name the other day?) So all that nascent energy floating around (that I think the Great Wheel was built to recollect) is really 'dead' (negative) energy. This is why 'Raw' Magic instantly create liches, and can't be handled safely (by mortals). "Don't touch that! Its EVIL!"

And the goddess Mystryl (Mystara?) was charged with recollecting and revitalizing that energy into a 'positive' form. Of course, that drove her a bit mad, and the duel-nature of the energy caused her to have a duel nature - The 'light' and the 'Dark'. Selûne, and Shar. Eventually her two personalities clash, which brings other Gods (Estelar and Primordials, etc.) into the fray, and Ao is forced to split the world of Toril to separate the two sides of the conflict (and am I the only one that finds it weird/interesting that Shar & Selûne wound up on the same world? Why would THAT be? Or did they?)

This would explain why mortals dare not use/access 'Raw' Magic - its nothing more then the energy of pure 'Death itself'. On the other hand, maybe its easier turning this into a lessened version of itself, and thats what Shar's Shadoweave does - it just makes the Raw magic 'less pure' (dilutes it) so that mortals can handle it. Thus, 'Shadow Weave Magic' is nothing more than Raw magic watered-down (she turns 'death' energy into 'Undeath' energy, which is a LOT easier than what Mystra has to do - turn 'death' energy' into 'life' energy.)

I'm actually not fond of this latest theory of mine, but it does explain-away some weirdness regarding these phenomena. It also ties into the idea that the entire universe in a constant state of death/decay, which is as 'grimdark' as it gets.

"We are all just Maggots, feasting on the corpse of God." - Thrain the Damned, of The Doomguard

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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
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Posted - 15 Aug 2017 :  02:30:16  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The universe is in a constant state of decay – through entropy, by the second law of thermodynamics.

And there's always mana! :D
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mana
I discovered that the Blood & Magic game's Interactive Demo's readme file contained a little more information than was in the actual game. From a close reading of it and other out-of-game materials, I believe mana is a form of life-energy magic, maybe even food. (A Bloodforge is a hungry mother of battle, it seems.) But Mystra's mentions in the game, through her Runestone shrines, etc., strongly suggest she is involved with this.

Karsus discovered/used "heavy magic", not raw magic. I'm not sure of the distinction though. Is raw magic a specific thing, or just a description? Where can I find more about it?

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Ayrik
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Canada
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Posted - 15 Aug 2017 :  02:44:24  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd always thought the Weave was a construct? Perhaps Mystra's construct after Mystryl's death, I can't recall if ancient Netheril had a Weave. Mystra's Weave only permitted up to 9th level magics (10th with Mystra's direct involvement), probably to restrict mortal power levels enough so that gods (and indeed the entire world) could never again be threatened by an overpowered wizard.

[/Ayrik]
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 15 Aug 2017 :  02:55:23  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan


Karsus discovered/used "heavy magic", not raw magic. I'm not sure of the distinction though. Is raw magic a specific thing, or just a description? Where can I find more about it?



From the 3e FRCG: "Raw magic is the frozen stuff of creation, the mute and mindless will of being , suffusing every bit of matter and present in every manifestation of energy throughout the world...Mortals cannot directly shape raw magic. Instead, most who wield magic make use of the Weave. The Weave is the manifestation of raw magic, a kind of interface between the will of a spellcaster and the stuff of raw magic." (pg 54).

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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
216 Posts

Posted - 15 Aug 2017 :  09:07:48  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aha! Thanks! With a little extra, I've worked it up into an article that I hope clarifies it.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Raw_magic

With that, Markustay's "death energy" conception of raw magic doesn't feel right. Through mana and incarnum applications, it feels more like "life energy". But then, the distinction is mainly a matter of direction. What heals one harms another. But this is more positive and negative energies anyway.

I feel that the Way faith of Kara-Tur, through the "sheet of cloth" analogy for the world, refers to the Weave. Also to the Shadow Weave, because they don't distinguish. :)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/The_Way

BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Bureaucrat of the Forgotten Realms Wiki
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
547 Posts

Posted - 15 Aug 2017 :  09:45:44  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Should the magic during the 4e era would be Raw Magic as well? It was magic that can be used without the Weave.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6239 Posts

Posted - 15 Aug 2017 :  09:52:48  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Weave is "woven" from "threads", I imagine. Or something analogous.

Otherwise I think it would be called by some different name based on some different analogy (the Ladder, the Heart, the Raft, the Ocean, the Burn, the Crystal, the Flux, the Lens, the Prism, the Codex, the Machine, the Quantum Foam, the Whatever).

So if it's a "tapestry" of threads woven together then, like any other tapestry, it could have different structures visible to different perceptions. An image on one side. Another image on the obverse. Invisible dyes only seen in certain light. Images within images (and is it self-repetitive? a fractal pattern? an infinite mural?). Hidden threads which require special scrutiny to discern.
But more interestingly ... A tapestry filled with "holes" and "tears" might also have textures and folds, patches of other materials (or even ugly clumps of staples) and other evidence of "grafts" or "repairs", maybe tumor-like growths where mythals have been planted. The surface might be "dimpled" by the magical weight of mythallars, it might (sometimes or always) be in motion with travelling "ripples" and "waves" (which themselves might reveal immovable features around permanent spell fields or artifacts, etc), it might have some sort of complex motion like a neural net or a living organism or a weather system or an active volcano. And what's "under" or "behind" those "holes" anyways, do they lead to some sort of "Underweave" or even open little keyhole/window to some sort of interface/medium "between" Weaves? Is the thing somehow "anchored" to the cosmos, maybe stitched into place around planar corners and such? Is it pulled out of shape by Selune's tidal forces? Does it cast a shadow of itself, can shadows be cast upon it?

[/Ayrik]
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