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 when an angel falls
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blade020877
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Ireland
56 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2017 :  21:32:33  Show Profile  Click to see blade020877's MSN Messenger address Send blade020877 a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
looking for a DM point of view:

playing a game at the moment (i am a PC playing 3.5) where a solar have turned evil (working with evil organisation).
my question is what powers would a solar lose for doing this or repercussions?

Artemas Entreri
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USA
3025 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2017 :  21:37:15  Show Profile  Visit Artemas Entreri's Homepage Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No need to post the same thread twice.

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Ayrik
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Canada
6194 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2017 :  07:20:05  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But Solars don't turn evil, lol. It's exactly as inconceivable as a pit fiend turning good or a hierarch modron becoming spontaneously chaotic or a slaad lord becoming rigidly lawful.

The fallen angel theme/meme was popular back when Diablo 3 ran strong. But note the detailed involvement of the angel (and the devil) in the story; in many ways they fully established and dominated the central plot arcs from beginning to end, while the mortal heroes (Diablo 3 players) were basically just puppets going through preordained motions. If this is what inspired you then I caution you to take special pains in concealing the predetermined fates/roles of your PC heroes - players absolutely *hate* thinking they don't have free choice, they must continue to think they have free choice at all times (even if untrue, lol) - or you may find you campaign grinds to an unhappy halt.

Planescape lore had a few snippets describing interactions of various outsiders, in some powerful celestials were unknowingly duped by the clever manipulations of baatezu to commit evil acts, in others powerful (and "predictable") fiends were duped by celestials into committing noble acts. These little passages helped set the tone of the setting and demonstrated that the endless war of good-vs-evil takes many forms which can be far more subtle than simply brandishing some holy/unholy burning retribution upon planar adversaries and strongholds.

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[/Ayrik]
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe

713 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2017 :  07:34:29  Show Profile Send Aldrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

But Solars don't turn evil, lol.


What about Malkizid?


Edited by - Aldrick on 30 May 2017 07:34:52
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Copper Elven Vampire
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371 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2017 :  15:27:36  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Malkizid is a Solar in Faerun that turned evil and was banished to the Abyss. His history is wound up with the Elven Crown Wars I believe.
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1807 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2017 :  00:33:18  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blade020877

looking for a DM point of view:




I can tell you how I would approach DMing the situation, but be aware that your DM has the prerogative to do whatever they want in their game. My opinion doesn't count for squat there.

Short answers:

quote:
Originally posted by blade020877

my question is what powers would a solar lose for doing this

Basically none.

quote:
Originally posted by blade020877

or repercussions?

That depends entirely on your DM's campaign needs. Other servants of the solar's previous master may or may not be dispatched to capture/kill the rebel. Role-playing encounters with the solar might or might not be interesting/odd. Is the solar driven insane before/during/after the shift to evil? Is it suicidal now -- or is it exulting in its new role/infamy?


Longer answers:

The first thing to consider is that the solar does not *have* to be evil. There's at least one Planescape adventure I know of, where, as Ayrik noted, a celestial was duped into working toward evil ends... his alignment wasn't so shinygood anymore, but he didn't become evil.

However, as also noted, Malkizid *did* go full-evil. Here's some changes *I* would be making in that situation.

1. The solar loses the Angel subtype, but retains the traits of that subtype. Note, as stated under the Good subtype description at the back of the MM, creatures that have the Good subtype which are turned evil do not lose that subtype. So the only change in this area is that the deflection bonus to AC and the resistance bonus to saves apply to attacks by good creatures instead of evil creatures. My thinking on this is that (1) it takes a lot of power (both literally and figuratively "epic") to turn a solar evil and (2) the evil which accomplishes this will naturally want to use the turned solar as a champion, and therefore this power will take the place of the divine power that once granted these bonuses, resulting in the solar losing no defenses in spite of losing the Angel subtype.

2. Damage reduction and regeneration abilities are unchanged, as these are determined by the Good subtype, which the solar still has.

3. The solar will still have 20th level cleric spellcasting ability, but its spell selections may change somewhat. Access to the Good domain will be lost, and replaced by a domain of the DM's choice -- Evil is obviously an option, but by no means the *only* option. (Actually all of its domains may be different, but at least the Good will change.)

4. Spell-like abilities: holy smite should be changed to unholy blight (or another 4th level non-good spell). None of the other spell-like abilities jump out at me as needing to be changed.


Remember this is just my opinion, and has no bearing on your DM.

Edited by - xaeyruudh on 31 May 2017 00:35:58
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blade020877
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Ireland
56 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2017 :  20:54:04  Show Profile  Click to see blade020877's MSN Messenger address Send blade020877 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thanks for input
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