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 Fey'ri stats for 5th edition.
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2017 :  22:53:45  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Has anyone made any stats for Fey'ri using the 5th edition rules? I can't believe 5th edition doesn't even have the half-fiend to work from. Maybe the Cambion is somewhere to start.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.

Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3391 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2017 :  13:59:28  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Challenge accepted! I'm going to make this a sub-race of the overall Elf. So they'll have the normal Elf stats in the PHB (+2 Dex, 30 ft. speed; darkvision, keen senses, fey ancestry, trance, and speak elven).

Fey'ri
The result of four noble houses of sun elves breeding with demons in an attempt to strengthen their bloodline, fey'ri are an abomination of half-demon and half-elf that no breeds true among their own kind. They're marked by the fiendish blood that courses their their veins, thus acceptance in any other place but their own community is almost unheard of.

Ability Score Increase. Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
Elf Weapon Training. You have proficiency with the longsword, shortsword, shortbow, and longbow.
Flight. You have large, bat-like wings giving you a flying speed of 50 ft. To use this speed you can't be wearing medium or heavy armor.
Demonic Magic. At 1st level you can cast the Alter Self spell at-will. When you reach 3rd level you can cast charm person 1/day. When you reach 5th level you can choose to cast darkness or clairvoyance 1/day. When you reach 7th level you can cast dimension door 1/day. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
Extra Language. You can speak read, speak, and write Abyssal.

Notable changes from 3e (Races of Faerűn):
• No skill bonuses
• Do not gain Enervation as a spell-like Ability (WAAY too powerful).
• No Damage Reduction, again broken.
• Not Outsiders as they've dropped that distinction in any sort of mechanical sense.

Comparisons to other Races

The way I've written it, it's undoubtedly more powerful than any other races currently published in any "Official" capacity. To make it more balanced, remove Dimension Door, Clairvoyance from their spell-like abilities and make Alter Self a spell-like ability gained at 5th level instead of at-will.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2017 :  15:57:09  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

Challenge accepted! I'm going to make this a sub-race of the overall Elf. So they'll have the normal Elf stats in the PHB (+2 Dex, 30 ft. speed; darkvision, keen senses, fey ancestry, trance, and speak elven).

Fey'ri
The result of four noble houses of sun elves breeding with demons in an attempt to strengthen their bloodline, fey'ri are an abomination of half-demon and half-elf that no breeds true among their own kind. They're marked by the fiendish blood that courses their their veins, thus acceptance in any other place but their own community is almost unheard of.

Ability Score Increase. Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
Elf Weapon Training. You have proficiency with the longsword, shortsword, shortbow, and longbow.
Flight. You have large, bat-like wings giving you a flying speed of 50 ft. To use this speed you can't be wearing medium or heavy armor.
Demonic Magic. At 1st level you can cast the Alter Self spell at-will. When you reach 3rd level you can cast charm person 1/day. When you reach 5th level you can choose to cast darkness or clairvoyance 1/day. When you reach 7th level you can cast dimension door 1/day. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
Extra Language. You can speak read, speak, and write Abyssal.

Notable changes from 3e (Races of Faerűn):
• No skill bonuses
• Do not gain Enervation as a spell-like Ability (WAAY too powerful).
• No Damage Reduction, again broken.
• Not Outsiders as they've dropped that distinction in any sort of mechanical sense.

Comparisons to other Races

The way I've written it, it's undoubtedly more powerful than any other races currently published in any "Official" capacity. To make it more balanced, remove Dimension Door, Clairvoyance from their spell-like abilities and make Alter Self a spell-like ability gained at 5th level instead of at-will.



Fair play Diffan!

One question? Why a bonus to Int and not Cha?

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3391 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2017 :  17:11:11  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul


Fair play Diffan!

One question? Why a bonus to Int and not Cha?



Good question. Couple of reasons:

• For one, it keeps with the lore from their write-up in Races of Faerűn as it was +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con. With 5e removing ability score penalties and Elves already getting +2 to Dex, it was a logical step to make +1 Int just like their half-gold elf heritage.

• Second, Charisma has too much synergy with their Spell-like abilities, because their spells are based off of Charisma too. I didn't want them to be too powerful considering they get a 2nd level spell at-will.

However their favored class (as per their write-up in RoF) is Sorcerer, which is Charisma-based. So a change to that isn't exactly all that surprising if you wanted the +1 to Cha instead of Int.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
422 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2017 :  17:31:36  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You might make their spell-like abilities a feat like they are for svirfneblin.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3394 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2017 :  17:57:32  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Linear, fixed progression of classes and races and monsters was always a bad idea. Nobody wants to play a character that is 90 percent the same as everyone elses. Making a monster of the same type vary ony by hit dice is also a bad idea as it makes things too predictable.


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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3391 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2017 :  21:55:07  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

You might make their spell-like abilities a feat like they are for svirfneblin.



That's an excellent idea. I totally forgot about that race and how they put its SLAs into a feat. Ill write something up tonight for it.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3391 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2017 :  22:01:50  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Linear, fixed progression of classes and races and monsters was always a bad idea. Nobody wants to play a character that is 90 percent the same as everyone elses. Making a monster of the same type vary ony by hit dice is also a bad idea as it makes things too predictable.





1. How does that ^^^ add to this conversation?
2. If you played 5th edition you'd know how ridiculous that quote really is.
3. No one's forcing you to play 5e.
4. 2e AD&D isn't going anywhere. Why not try Swords and Wizardry?

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5663 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2017 :  01:13:12  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm, speaking of feats AND the idea that everyone likes to make their own character "different"..... and the fact that Diffan you are a good person to talk with about balance.... I'd written this up in my complete red book of spell strategy for 5e

A) have you seen anything like this in any other resources?
B) Do you think this mechanic is balanced?
C) Do you see any improvements to be made?

Optional Rules: Hit Dice Trading for Feats
Using the standard rules, if a character does not use his hit dice over several short rests during the day, at the end of the day he can essentially use all of his hit dice to usually restore himself to maximum hit points. However, in a party including healers, these hit dice may go to waste. Also, a player simply may want to establish that he's given up some of his personal vitality in exchange for power as his power grows (for instance, Raistlin).
Using these optional rules, at 5th, 10th, and 15th character level (not class level), the character is given the choice of giving up their next five hit dice gains in exchange for a feat. Whenever a new hit dice gain would be a smaller hit dice, then the character actually exchanges the already larger hit dice for a smaller hit dice. For instance, if a character had 5 levels as a fighter and then chooses to start leveling as a wizard, at each level of wizard level gain, he exchanges one of his current 1d10 hit dice for a 1d6 hit dice. For instance, if a character had 5 levels as a fighter and 4 levels as a wizard, and they had traded in hit dice for a feat, then they would have 1d10 + 4d6 hit dice in total. This gaining of always the lowest hit dice continues as the character levels, even if the character does not trade in future hit dice for feats. For instance, if the aforementioned character then chose to return to levelling to finally become a 8th level fighter and 5th level wizard, and he had still only traded in for the one feat, he would have 3d10 + 5d6 hit dice. If the aforementioned character had traded in hit dice for two feats, he would have 5d6 hit dice. At no point in leveling should the character have less than 5 total hit dice per day, but they should always be their lowest hit dice from all chosen classes. It should be noted that this is simply hit dice per day and not the increase in maximum hit points gained by leveling (such that the aforementioned 8th level fighter / 5th level wizard would still determine his maximum hit points by using 8d10 + 5d6 + 13 x Constitution Modifier).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3391 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2017 :  05:18:41  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Hmmm, speaking of feats AND the idea that everyone likes to make their own character "different"..... and the fact that Diffan you are a good person to talk with about balance.... I'd written this up in my complete red book of spell strategy for 5e

A) have you seen anything like this in any other resources?
B) Do you think this mechanic is balanced?
C) Do you see any improvements to be made?

Optional Rules: Hit Dice Trading for Feats
Using the standard rules, if a character does not use his hit dice over several short rests during the day, at the end of the day he can essentially use all of his hit dice to usually restore himself to maximum hit points. However, in a party including healers, these hit dice may go to waste. Also, a player simply may want to establish that he's given up some of his personal vitality in exchange for power as his power grows (for instance, Raistlin).
Using these optional rules, at 5th, 10th, and 15th character level (not class level), the character is given the choice of giving up their next five hit dice gains in exchange for a feat. Whenever a new hit dice gain would be a smaller hit dice, then the character actually exchanges the already larger hit dice for a smaller hit dice. For instance, if a character had 5 levels as a fighter and then chooses to start leveling as a wizard, at each level of wizard level gain, he exchanges one of his current 1d10 hit dice for a 1d6 hit dice. For instance, if a character had 5 levels as a fighter and 4 levels as a wizard, and they had traded in hit dice for a feat, then they would have 1d10 + 4d6 hit dice in total. This gaining of always the lowest hit dice continues as the character levels, even if the character does not trade in future hit dice for feats. For instance, if the aforementioned character then chose to return to levelling to finally become a 8th level fighter and 5th level wizard, and he had still only traded in for the one feat, he would have 3d10 + 5d6 hit dice. If the aforementioned character had traded in hit dice for two feats, he would have 5d6 hit dice. At no point in leveling should the character have less than 5 total hit dice per day, but they should always be their lowest hit dice from all chosen classes. It should be noted that this is simply hit dice per day and not the increase in maximum hit points gained by leveling (such that the aforementioned 8th level fighter / 5th level wizard would still determine his maximum hit points by using 8d10 + 5d6 + 13 x Constitution Modifier).




Interesting proposal. So if I'm a Fighter 4 and at 5th leven I choose Wizard 1 and this option I would not gain additional Hit Die to spend on healing (though HP increases still happen) for the next 5 levels aMD the HD I do have would all be d6's?

I think it has potential. From a first glance I don't mind losing the additional Hit Die for healing but the previous die changing to a lower denomination seems overly penalizing. Maybe instead the hit points you get regardless of your next class is a d8 (default middle hit die) and it applies only for HP gained normally for leveling.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5663 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2017 :  13:16:57  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Hmmm, speaking of feats AND the idea that everyone likes to make their own character "different"..... and the fact that Diffan you are a good person to talk with about balance.... I'd written this up in my complete red book of spell strategy for 5e

A) have you seen anything like this in any other resources?
B) Do you think this mechanic is balanced?
C) Do you see any improvements to be made?

Optional Rules: Hit Dice Trading for Feats
Using the standard rules, if a character does not use his hit dice over several short rests during the day, at the end of the day he can essentially use all of his hit dice to usually restore himself to maximum hit points. However, in a party including healers, these hit dice may go to waste. Also, a player simply may want to establish that he's given up some of his personal vitality in exchange for power as his power grows (for instance, Raistlin).
Using these optional rules, at 5th, 10th, and 15th character level (not class level), the character is given the choice of giving up their next five hit dice gains in exchange for a feat. Whenever a new hit dice gain would be a smaller hit dice, then the character actually exchanges the already larger hit dice for a smaller hit dice. For instance, if a character had 5 levels as a fighter and then chooses to start leveling as a wizard, at each level of wizard level gain, he exchanges one of his current 1d10 hit dice for a 1d6 hit dice. For instance, if a character had 5 levels as a fighter and 4 levels as a wizard, and they had traded in hit dice for a feat, then they would have 1d10 + 4d6 hit dice in total. This gaining of always the lowest hit dice continues as the character levels, even if the character does not trade in future hit dice for feats. For instance, if the aforementioned character then chose to return to levelling to finally become a 8th level fighter and 5th level wizard, and he had still only traded in for the one feat, he would have 3d10 + 5d6 hit dice. If the aforementioned character had traded in hit dice for two feats, he would have 5d6 hit dice. At no point in leveling should the character have less than 5 total hit dice per day, but they should always be their lowest hit dice from all chosen classes. It should be noted that this is simply hit dice per day and not the increase in maximum hit points gained by leveling (such that the aforementioned 8th level fighter / 5th level wizard would still determine his maximum hit points by using 8d10 + 5d6 + 13 x Constitution Modifier).




Interesting proposal. So if I'm a Fighter 4 and at 5th leven I choose Wizard 1 and this option I would not gain additional Hit Die to spend on healing (though HP increases still happen) for the next 5 levels aMD the HD I do have would all be d6's?

I think it has potential. From a first glance I don't mind losing the additional Hit Die for healing but the previous die changing to a lower denomination seems overly penalizing. Maybe instead the hit points you get regardless of your next class is a d8 (default middle hit die) and it applies only for HP gained normally for leveling.



What I was going for there was a means of easily figuring out WHAT hit die you have. Essentially, you shouldn't have to track that "at X level I traded in hit dice for feats". I may have overcomplicated the text trying to give examples. Essentially, you always have only the lowest hit die that you have. So, an 18th level character who trades in for feats twice and would normally have say 8d10, 6d8, and 4d6 would end up with 4d6 and 4d8. Said same 18th level character who trades in for feats 3 times (i.e. at 5th/10th/and 15th) would just have 4d6 and 1d8.

None of this would affect the actual hit points you earn in leveling, it just affects this "free" healing pool you get. Said same 18th level character who trades in for 3 feats would still get 8d10, 6d8, and 4d6.

I've also got a few other things in my stuff where trading in hit dice is used, such that for some characters the idea of getting the feats may not be as useful (for instance, my version of vremyonni have constructs as familiars, and my Durthans can summon telthor animal spirits as familiars, but they spend hit dice during the ritual to summon them). I've also got blood sorcery where sorcerers can expend hit die for sorcery points. I've got mantle feats in which you expend hit die for contingent magic (and the 2nd version can maintain weave connectivity even in anti-magic for a few seconds).

As a mechanic, I got the idea from the guy that submitted the blood magic supplement that Dragon magazine mentioned as the first "look at this one the DM's Guild" article.

Along these lines, I'd also like to have some necromantic spells and/or undead that perhaps steal this vitality (i.e. hit die) from a character that still has some unused, but I haven't taken the time to write them up. Perhaps undead could even heal themselves with this stolen vitality, or turn it to some other effort. Maybe there might be some spells that require you to steal a certain amount of vitality from someone in order to power X effect against them. Similarly, I could also see some kind of greater familiar spells for other "types" of casters (i.e. a summoner that can summon some kind of lesser demon or elemental as a familiar by sacrificing hit die... and by lesser, I don't mean imps/mephitis.... or some kind of Zakharan caster/sha'ir type that can summon an actual genie.. say a task genie... as a familiar.

Anyway, back to the original thread... and kind of on this same thread.... what if in leveling and gaining new abilities, this race instead gives up hit die (i.e. don't give them the option of not buying the feat)? Not sure if I like it as it forces them down a path, but could be interesting. Might also be interesting to offer two different sets of fey'ri abilities as feats such that you aren't simply duplicating the fey'ri of yesteryear. For instance, what if you had "fey'ri" feats, but you also had a more generic "fiend-blooded" feats and "demonspawn"/"devilspawn"/"daemonspawn" feats. Not really sure what the difference might be, but could be interesting. Of course, the feat thing is only useful like this if you actually do adopt some kind of special rules like I present above so that you can actually have some stuff to play with.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3391 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2017 :  22:31:55  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas


What I was going for there was a means of easily figuring out WHAT hit die you have. Essentially, you shouldn't have to track that "at X level I traded in hit dice for feats". I may have overcomplicated the text trying to give examples. Essentially, you always have only the lowest hit die that you have. So, an 18th level character who trades in for feats twice and would normally have say 8d10, 6d8, and 4d6 would end up with 4d6 and 4d8. Said same 18th level character who trades in for feats 3 times (i.e. at 5th/10th/and 15th) would just have 4d6 and 1d8.

None of this would affect the actual hit points you earn in leveling, it just affects this "free" healing pool you get. Said same 18th level character who trades in for 3 feats would still get 8d10, 6d8, and 4d6.

I've also got a few other things in my stuff where trading in hit dice is used, such that for some characters the idea of getting the feats may not be as useful (for instance, my version of vremyonni have constructs as familiars, and my Durthans can summon telthor animal spirits as familiars, but they spend hit dice during the ritual to summon them). I've also got blood sorcery where sorcerers can expend hit die for sorcery points. I've got mantle feats in which you expend hit die for contingent magic (and the 2nd version can maintain weave connectivity even in anti-magic for a few seconds).

As a mechanic, I got the idea from the guy that submitted the blood magic supplement that Dragon magazine mentioned as the first "look at this one the DM's Guild" article.

Along these lines, I'd also like to have some necromantic spells and/or undead that perhaps steal this vitality (i.e. hit die) from a character that still has some unused, but I haven't taken the time to write them up. Perhaps undead could even heal themselves with this stolen vitality, or turn it to some other effort. Maybe there might be some spells that require you to steal a certain amount of vitality from someone in order to power X effect against them. Similarly, I could also see some kind of greater familiar spells for other "types" of casters (i.e. a summoner that can summon some kind of lesser demon or elemental as a familiar by sacrificing hit die... and by lesser, I don't mean imps/mephitis.... or some kind of Zakharan caster/sha'ir type that can summon an actual genie.. say a task genie... as a familiar.


Playing around with the mechanic is a cool concept. I actually started allowing HD healing in my E6 games with successful Heal checks and using a healer's kit. It would affect your overall resistance to spells such as if your a 6 HD character and you spend 5 of them on healing you can be affected by a Sleep spell because you're now down below 4 for the day.

But I'd suggest trying out a few one-shots with the mechanic or running a quick adventure to see how it works. That way it'll give you a better idea on how stressful the lack of healing resources is on characters is. I'd also suggest not having a full-time dedicated healer in the group when it's playtested. Druids and Clerics can do some nice healing (paladins and rangers to a lesser extent) too. Stress test the mechanic, even if you run a cluster of challenges like an Arena-Style.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Anyway, back to the original thread... and kind of on this same thread.... what if in leveling and gaining new abilities, this race instead gives up hit die (i.e. don't give them the option of not buying the feat)? Not sure if I like it as it forces them down a path, but could be interesting. Might also be interesting to offer two different sets of fey'ri abilities as feats such that you aren't simply duplicating the fey'ri of yesteryear. For instance, what if you had "fey'ri" feats, but you also had a more generic "fiend-blooded" feats and "demonspawn"/"devilspawn"/"daemonspawn" feats. Not really sure what the difference might be, but could be interesting. Of course, the feat thing is only useful like this if you actually do adopt some kind of special rules like I present above so that you can actually have some stuff to play with.



I really TomCosta's idea of making a feat for their spell-like abilities. That's where I'd put Darkness, Charm Person, Clarivoyance spells.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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