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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6835 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2012 :  20:20:55  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
(Sorry folks, this has nothing at all to do with the Forgotten Realms. It's actually about the Planescape: Torment CRPG. Scribes and visitors to Candlekeep please beware that this scroll will likely contain PST spoilers, and it would be a real shame to ruin the story and entertainment value playing through PST would offer.)

...

I am pleased to announce that I've joined a team working on Planescape: Damnation, a new CRPG which will continue the story of the Nameless One where Planescape: Torment left off.

I'm not really permitted to reveal much about PSD just yet (it has thus far been carefully de-listed and pruned away from the search engines). Suffice to say it will be a fan-based noncommercial WeiDU-based mod/sequel to the original PST CRPG. There are plans for a complete overhaul and rebuild of the game engine to natively support modern Windows platforms, real video resolutions, audio, etc. It will require that PST is already installed (in fact, the story will move through many new planar locations as well as all of the existing ones; also, the starting point of the sequel will be your savegame from the original). It'll continue to work primarily from augmented AD&D2E rules (stealing some good ideas from D&D3E). It'll be packed with several CDs worth of new data, graphics, artwork, and audio (music and voice acting), and it'll be comparable in "length" and complexity to the original.

And FYI, several members of the original Interplay crew are on this (very selective) team, this will be a professional quality title and a worthy successor of the original. My understanding is that we are currently waiting on some licensing issues to be resolved before continuing - but expect good things! Er, just don't expect them before our target of Q3/2013.

Anyhow ...

Part of the reason I've chosen to announce PSD here is because I need some info. One of my functions on this team is to serve as the "D&D expert" and indeed my particular knowledge of planeslore, the Gith races, fiends, and certain other things (<ahem> Tyranthraxus ...) is being tapped quite mercilessly.

So one of my tasks is to resolve "problems" and "inconsistencies" in a way which "fits" with canon stuff. I'm hoping that the scribes and Grand Poobahs of Candlekeep may be able to assist in some of the finer details.

Another of my tasks is to poll for things like feature requests, suggestions, feedback, etc. Again, I can think of none better qualified on such matters than my colleagues at Candlekeep. (After much consideration and discussion, we agreed that PSD will not be mentioned or discussed by us on the Wizbro sites). So, if you've played PST (or any other Bioware-styled CRPG) and saw things that really sucked or would like to see things that were missing ... this is the place to tell us what you want!

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 08 Nov 2012 20:40:08

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6835 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2012 :  20:30:28  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My first question ...

Deionarra, or more specifically, Deionarra's ghost. In PST, she's a ghost, an apparation, dead, dead. She is encountered near her own remains (in the Dustman Crematorium, in the Hive of Sigil). She is also encountered in the Fortress of Regrets (a special and rather small "demiplane" located in the Inner Planes, "somewhere very close to the Negative Energy Plane").

My understanding is that ghosts exist on the Ethereal. So seeing her float around the Fortress of Regrets ain't a problem; the Ethereal borders all the Inner Planes. Seeing her in Sigil seems questionable. Does Sigil coexist with the Ethereal? Can ghosts (and other ethereals) even exist on Sigil? If not ... can they perhaps reach Sigil through portals (portals which do not require a physical key, or which might be opened by others)?

I have searched most carefully through my planar references yet cannot find an acceptable explanation for Deionarra-in-Sigil. Any suggestions? Where's that crazy arcanaloth when I need advice ...

[/Ayrik]
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe

Germany
479 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2012 :  08:57:17  Show Profile Send Lord Bane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The arcanaloth is mostlikely busy bribing the next election

Deionarra is encountered near her remains, ghosts can stay near their deceased mortal forms if they still have things to do or regrets of things done. IŽd say she lingers because she has not yet mad peace with her former life.

The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act.
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2012 :  09:38:09  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Whaat? A sequel to Planescape: Torment??

Probably the best news I've heard in a looong time!

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1757 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2012 :  11:52:42  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's unbelievable, incredible news if it's true ...

As for the question, the Lady's Mazes are demiplanes, that's the only connection with the Ethereal without the gate keys. Except in 4e where Sigil is a demiplane.

Ghosts and others who die in Sigil should be trapped. I guess the easiest way is for the Dustmen to keep a portal to the Astral open all the time.

http://mimir.net/musee/soulcage.html
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2012 :  15:43:12  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How did I miss this scroll? [Strangely, it didn't appear in my Active Topics until just this moment.]

...

Marked for later perusal and cogitation.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6835 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2012 :  21:22:54  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, PSD is (or will be) real and true. It's nice to see that the original game is still getting some love. Incidentally, our team's project has got nothing to do with this ... it just looks like it's time (about bloody time!) that the outlines of a Planescape 2 CRPG can finally be divined from the orbits of the planes.

Van Richten's Guide to Ghosts suggests the possibility of ghosts being "anchored" to living people. Deionarra could certainly be "near" Nameless at all times, following him around. Although I still wonder if she can manifest (or even exist) in Ethereal-disconnected Sigil.

I was going to ask my other questions later, but it seems the answers might all be interrelated.

Question 2)
Does Sigil allow extradimensional access? Would a bag of holding still be "bigger inside than outside" on Sigil, or would it just be a bag of holding? Do "pocket-dimension" things work while Ethereal or Astral things do not? I have found no answers in my Planescape lore.

Question 3)
The Lady's Mazes are of course "extradimensional". Planescape lore doesn't really go into a lot of detail: if you irritate the Lady then you get sent/stuck in a custom-made maze. In PST you get mazed when you cross a "zone" or "area" in Sigil; and you arrive at (or close to) your normal Sigil-destination after you escape the maze through a portal. It seems like these "zone" boundaries all have big doorways or arches which could function as (Lady-controlled) portals.

But in "tabletop" Planescape (not a Planescape CRPG), can you choose to return to "your" maze at any later time? Are portals involved? And when you "escape" from your maze ... do you always return to Sigil or can you go elsewhere? For example, could Ravel's Maze be connected to, say, her native plane (the Gray Wastes) instead of or in addition to some portal in Sigil? The Lady might whisk Elminster off to some El-Maze in annoyance ... and he might find that whatever unique path leads "out" of the maze takes him to Shadowdale instead of, say, the Lower Ward ... or is that not how it works?

Unfortunately, it seems (to me) like the writers of 2E-era Planescape lore didn't really understand any technical difference between "dimension" and "plane" and just haphazardly interchanged both terms. Sourcebook usage of "extradimensional" could as easily mean "(un)folded within a complex hyperdimensional timespace" as "lost on the Astral" or "came from the Abyss". And (re-)writers of later edition planeslore have only made things worse.

That's all my questions for now. They seem to basically all be about the planar properties of Sigil.

[Edit]

Alright, I lied. Question 4) (got nothing to do with Sigil!)

What is Tyranthraxus' native plane? Within canon, not on the wiki pages (the wikis assert T is some kind of Yugoloth, I think incorrectly).

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 09 Nov 2012 21:52:34
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2012 :  00:58:42  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

What is Tyranthraxus' native plane? Within canon, not on the wiki pages (the wikis assert T is some kind of Yugoloth, I think incorrectly).
The 2e Villains' Lorebook noted that Tyranthraxus' home plane of existence was unknown. I don't immediately recall that information being updated since that time.

As for what Tyranthraxus might actually be... according to the Cloak & Dagger web enhancement, Tyranthraxus was a demipower. But his physical form has been left rather vague, probably as a result of his "possessing spirit" ability.

I'll note further that back in August 2008, Brian James said he views:-
quote:
"Tyranthraxus as a Primordial (along with Borem, Haask and the other Lost Gods."
Which I've always found to be particularly interesting, since we've yet to see how the "elemental origin" of the Primordials will impact, if at all, upon Tyranthraxus's view of the Realms.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1757 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2012 :  20:25:44  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm not 100 % sure ...

2) It should work, there are dimensions in Sigil, meaning there is still a nondimensional void behind them, Sigil's own ''Astral''.

3) The Mazes are all weird and unique, anything is possible with them, it's left to the DM. Tough I don't think it cares about the mazed person's home.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6835 Posts

Posted - 14 Nov 2012 :  23:40:05  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Primordial origins for Tyranthraxus would simplify some things a lot ... although I'll admit I'm not really comfortable accepting them (or any other 4E planar whitewash) within the classic Gygax-inspired Planescape cosmology. But since I insist on making/keeping things "difficult" for myself: (in 2E) can elemental vortices connect to realms or layers on the outer planes? I ask because Tyranthraxus almost seems to be something of a Gehenna-like fiend mixed with fire elemental ... I'm a bit confused about his taxonomy. And yes, he's unique to the Realms. But that doesn't mean he's unique to the planes. (Of course, "things-don't-always-make-sense" is an important and intrinsic cornerstone of the Planescape setting.)

It kinda seems all the Sigil-based questions boil down to the whims of each DM/author. While such ambiguity could serve well (ie, Deionarra's ghost as a plot element in PST) it still worries me - pure-canon consistency seems better than some sort of Blood War with angry planewalking Grognards.

Is the Modron cube (Nordom) extraplanar in nature? Surely it has axiomatic affinities for Mechanus, but how exactly does Nordom emerge from it? Does the cube just sort of mechanically polymorph itself? Or does it "uncompress" and "unfold" through some sort of clockwork extradimensional manipulation (in Sigil)?

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 14 Nov 2012 23:47:38
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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1757 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2012 :  20:13:19  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Agreed, it should be Gehenna, he's an altraloth most likely, cause they are all unique.

Sorry, I don't remember Nordom, haven't played the game since its release. I think Limbo's chaos matter somehow changed it. Is there a portal in the Modron Maze? Otherwise planeshifting out of Sigil would not work.
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2012 :  10:45:41  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ayrik, did you see the Dragon article on modrons?

I *think* there was a portal in the Maze...

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6835 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2012 :  21:03:34  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael

Ayrik, did you see the Dragon article on modrons?

I *think* there was a portal in the Maze...

I haven't subscribed to Dragon since it went "online" (aside from a brief "test run" I didn't like). It's basically all about some fancy new game they call "D&D" which I don't play. But thanx for mentioning the article, Zireael, I've asked somebody to look it up for me. Although it turns out that the Modron angle is now somebody else's turf, they just give me all the fiendish problems.

Incidentally, did you play the CD Projekt's Polish version of PST? If so, how would you "rate" the quality of the translation, voice acting, etc?

Altraloth. Hmmm.

[/Ayrik]
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2012 :  15:18:45  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I did play PST, and as with most of CD Projekt's cRPGs, the translation was excellent, they even got some well known actors to do the dubbing, i.e. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriela_Kownacka]Gabriela Kownacka[/url] gave her voice to Fall-From-Grace. /I mostly remember her as Viconia in BG, though/


Of course, there were some small errors, but not in PST, in BG - these will be corrected in BG:EE.

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Light
Learned Scribe

Australia
231 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2012 :  16:42:05  Show Profile Send Light a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Planescape... sequel? Why do you tease me so?

So many older RPG titles are being revived lately. BG, Wasteland, Fallout (albeit a little differently), Icewind Dale remaster somewhat expected and now Planescape. Words cannot express what I feel.

I can't answer your questions Ayrik but I will wish you and the team luck in your efforts to create a worthy sequel.

"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga)

Edited by - Light on 25 Nov 2012 16:44:52
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6835 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2012 :  01:07:22  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately, our voice-actors/actresses aren't (yet) famous people. Completely unknown, unless maybe you attend the same drama classes they do. The ones we have so far do seem surprisingly talented (and patient), and I think our Morte and Anna voices match the originals almost perfectly, although our current Nameless is a bit off.

The quality of the original (English) PST audio files leaves much to be desired, even the "cleaned up" unofficial mod/patch versions. But it's been decided we'll focus on building new audio content instead of rebuilding old content.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Dec 2012 01:09:12
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

705 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2012 :  20:47:29  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought this would be relevant to this thread.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-12-03-chris-avellone-blesses-inxiles-planescape-torment-successor
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6835 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2012 :  19:11:41  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We are aware of this (and other) "Planescape II" projects. FYI, our project has been floating in Limbo while the Team's legal person attempts to negotiate/appeal some licensing issues. As it stands, we intend to do something with all the work we've done, but we may not be permitted to produce our initial vision of the game.

[/Ayrik]
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6835 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2013 :  14:03:11  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Which sourcebooks have information about Baron Lum the Mad?

There's tons of information about his infamous Machine (along with stuff about Leuk-O, etc), but all I could find about Lum himself was this wiki and a short adventure in the 2E Vortex of Madness. It has been many years indeed since I last visited Oerth, and I remember very little of my brief adventures there. I have access to all the materials cited in the wiki except the Ivid the Undying module (crap, I never downloaded it!) and Living Greyhawk Journals (although I have the Dragon and Dungeon issues which duplicate the "canon" content of LGJ #6 onwards).

Specifically:
Does anyone have a quick summary and the dates of major events in Lum's life (birth, apparent death, etc)?
Does anyone have a "canon" statement about how calendars in Greyhawk and the Realms correlate?
How old would Lum be (in an uninterrupted chronology) as of 1356DR? How many years ago did he mysteriously vanish?

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 11 Jan 2013 14:12:04
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32288 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2013 :  16:06:52  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Does anyone have a "canon" statement about how calendars in Greyhawk and the Realms correlate?



There was an article in Dragon, back in the day, that explicitly lined up dates between the published game settings. Unfortunately, I'll be dipped if I can find it now...

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6835 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2013 :  18:49:22  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm aware of A Temporal Chronology of the Primes (by Brian R James) and A Spelljammer Timeline - revised (by GMWestermeyer). But I'm not sure if they're considered "official".

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 11 Jan 2013 18:54:02
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Marc
Senior Scribe

618 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2013 :  17:10:48  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They're going to set another Torment ''sequel'' in Monte Cook's Numenera

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Which sourcebooks have information about Baron Lum the Mad?




According to Encyclopedia Greyhawkania, Lum:

Dragon #82 - 58
Dragon #167 - 13
Dragon #294 - 96
Dragon #299 - 101,103

Eldritch Wizardry - 46
Living Onnwal Gazetteer - 5
Ivid the Undying (http://www.acaeum.com/library/ividundying.pdf)

.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6835 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2013 :  18:14:13  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanx, Marc. The Encyclopedia Greyhawkania index is an awesome resource I never knew about it (admittedly, I know little about Greyhawk).

We've been following the rumours and news about Avellone, McComb, and "Planescape: Torment 2" for months, and I suspect it might have something to do with our uncertain legal/licensing status, though we have continued work on "generic" components of our version. The numbers on Kickstarter show a clear demand for a successor, though Monte's information seems unclear about whether his new CRPG will focus on Planescape or Numenara. Our team's focus is strictly Planescape.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 13 Jan 2013 18:19:12
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Marc
Senior Scribe

618 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2013 :  18:30:51  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you need a Planescape index - this site helped me: http://www.rilmani.org/psIndex.txt

If your project is fan-based and non-commercial maybe you could post it on Planewalker.com - they have permission from WotC. I don't know the details of their agreement.

I remember someone was working on a PS:T mod years ago, but it vanished.

.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6835 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2013 :  20:19:36  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanx again, Marc. I never knew that Planewalker has special permissions from Wizbro, or to what extent - I'm guessing their "official" arrangement with Wizbro is probably comparable to Candlekeep's (which is somewhat vague to my understanding), but I've forwarded this information to our "legal" guy. Wizbro is not the only legal/IP entity involved.

Yes, fan-based and non-commercial. Hosting on Planewalker might technically circumvent some issues but create others, especially if we are ever issued a desist or takedown notice.

[/Ayrik]
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2013 :  17:28:02  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So that means there's a chance Damnation will actually get made?

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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