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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34169 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2020 :  22:52:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I had an odd idea, earlier... Is there anything, gamewise, that says a vampire can't stash their coffin in an extradimensional space, like a portable hole or bag of holding, and just open it up and go in when they need to?

Obviously, said vampire would be in trouble if they had to make an unexpected retreat and the space wasn't open... But if a vampire needed to travel, getting someone to carry their coffin in an extradimensional space would make things easier.

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Kentinal
Great Reader

4509 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2020 :  23:18:19  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do not recall any rule that prevents a coffin from being placed into an extradimensional space.

I though would question if a coffin could be placed in a bag of holding, due to size of coffin vs, opening of bag.

A quick look at SRD about them indicates that they need coffin for two reasons.
1. To cross moving water must be in coffin.
2) If reduced to 0 hit points must enter coffin to start regeneration. At 0 hit points regeneration stops and vampire forced into gaseous form. As such if vampire can not open storage can not regenerate until someone else opens it and not expecting a vampire coffin.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon

Edited by - Kentinal on 18 Jan 2020 23:19:00
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1263 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2020 :  02:42:41  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For extra comedy, the vampire realizes he can't get out of the bag of holding.

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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
682 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2020 :  09:20:19  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The old, 1st Edition Lords of Darkness (REF5) featured a vampire-centered adventure, which noted the following about the two protagonist vampires ( formerly high elven twins, with the typical elven names Jonathon and Jeremiah): « Stuffing their bag#146;s of holding with soil from their graves, they were able to wander the Forgotten Realms in search of wealth and more power.« 

I don’t think there is a rule against coffin transporting, but I do think that any object that goes into the bag of holding needs to have dimensions that allow it to pass through the opening of the bag. Coffins may not fit through the opening.

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1755 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2020 :  11:00:52  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's not exactly the same thing, but I explored hiding the coffin on the Ethereal Plane in Dungeon #128.

--Eric

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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
34169 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2020 :  13:51:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'm satisfied that it's doable, then, given the right prep. Thankee!

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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4049 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2020 :  18:43:27  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don’t think they even need a coffin...just the soil and an enclosed space.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe

Germany
576 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2020 :  18:54:35  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The vampire Dragon Brimstone created a collar he could wear that connected him to his hord and let him travel frealy around without the need staying close to his hoard. While not being the same it shows, that there a definately ways to get around limitations from being a vampire.
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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
501 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2020 :  22:03:47  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I remember reading that when a Safehold is created, a little portal is created that allows air to go into the space. That could be used by a vampire to get in and out of the Safehold as long as he knows where the opening is. That would still be something that a group could find the entrance to but would be hidden well enough that the vampire would be confident about being safe.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

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Gelcur
Learned Scribe

337 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2020 :  02:05:02  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is an example from 3.5 that does something similar with the dryad and her oak tree. Could easily enough re-flavor it for a vampire and its coffin.

We used to use this spell to help break 3.5 builds by abusing Sanctum Spell Metamagic feat. Fun times.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker

Canada
76 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2020 :  00:57:56  Show Profile Send Scimitars of Drizzt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Happy I found this post, because I almost just resurrected an old generic vampire scroll asking about this very question. But I do have an additional thought that I'm hoping to get opinions on:

In regards to a vampire getting around with ease, how about a spell of shrinking? Shrink the coffin down with the dirt inside, then you can easily transport it around like a vampire's personal RV. I don't see why this wouldn't work, but perhaps I'm missing something. Additionally, I see it was mentioned above, but there were conflicting thoughts on the matter: do they really need their coffin? Based on the wording of "Chained to the Grave" in the MM (saw it online) I suppose they really just need the dirt. But perhaps, like mentioned above, the coffin is necessary if the vampire were to "die" so that it has a space to return to in gaseous form to heal. But I'm guessing they really just need to sink themselves within the dirt.

Also, quick question I just thought about: does a vampire need to see/directly speak to their spawn to control them, or can they command them through a telepathic link? I think they can telepathically, but just wanted to be sure.

Thanks!

"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."

"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?"

Edited by - Scimitars of Drizzt on 07 Nov 2020 01:10:35
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7311 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2020 :  01:28:21  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Leomund's Secret Coffin"?

The idea might work in the Realms (or other generic settings).

But I don't think it would work in Ravenloft settings. Van Richten's Guide to Vampires carefully explains that the vulnerabilities of vampires are supernatural, not biological. They cannot cross running water or enter a home uninvited because to them these are fundamentally impossible barriers, somewhat equivalent to magical barriers, no matter how easily they (or their victims) could do these things in life. They must rest within a coffin (or a sarcophagus, crypt, mausoleum, whatever) at their own original burial/interment site - there is a supernatural connection which somehow anchors them to the place, it is suggested they can move to a different place (bringing some soil from their grave, etc) but that it is still "impossible" for them to reside in a completely different land. They simply must return to their "coffin" (site) to rest, it's compulsory and it's unchangeable. The place has power over them, they can be forced to respond to magical summons from it. (Although they need to rest less frequently and they're less vulnerable when they evolve into older and more powerful vampires, but that's beside the point.)
Maybe Van Richten's commentary is unique to the nature of vampire types from Ravenloft, or even to the nature of Ravenloft itself, but it still seems suggestive.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 07 Nov 2020 01:41:18
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34169 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2020 :  03:36:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, Dracula, the iconic vampire, did travel from Transylvania to England and back -- so travel is clearly doable.

Ravenloft is a different case, clearly, but I think part of the limitation there is a deliberate limiting effect by the Dark Powers -- similar to the way the dark lords rule their realms but are imprisoned within them.

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.
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Also, I don't recall what it was I was thinking when I created this discussion. I had some idea in mind, but January 2020 was like 6 or 7 years ago, I think, and I've clearly forgotten what I was thinking of, then!

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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2020 :  03:42:30  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seeker Drizzt,

Heck, I think a portable hole with the coffin in it, shrunk, is perfect. Easy peezy, you'd never know it was there.

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker

Canada
76 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2020 :  05:34:25  Show Profile Send Scimitars of Drizzt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Seeker Drizzt,

Heck, I think a portable hole with the coffin in it, shrunk, is perfect. Easy peezy, you'd never know it was there.

Best regards,






Master cpthero2,

Awesome, thanks for the thoughts. I was even thinking just throwing the shrunken coffin in a regular old backpack when travelling, and when it's time for the vampire to rest they simply throw it down and boom - regular sized coffin again. I suppose that'd be the budget option though; portable hole is certainly more ideal for safety.

"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."

"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?"

Edited by - Scimitars of Drizzt on 07 Nov 2020 05:35:40
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2020 :  05:54:44  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seeker Drizzt,

You are certainly correct that the shrunken coffin and a backpack is more affordable. They say that Lastarr, in the Shining South with its very diverse clientele are quite adapted to being of all sorts. You could likely find a great deal down there for your character! :)

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker

Canada
76 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2020 :  05:46:35  Show Profile Send Scimitars of Drizzt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's stated in the RAW that a vampire can travel 9 miles every 2 hours in its gaseous form. So a vampire could travel about 54 miles per night in this state, depending on the precise amount of sunlight limiting it.

It got me thinking if this is the fastest method for a vampire to travel over a long period of time. An experienced vampire can also stay in its bat/wolf form for the entire night. I was researching how far these creatures can travel in real-life, and despite the high-speeds these mammals can achieve in short periods of time, wolf's can only travel up to 40 miles a day, and bats, about 50 miles, though it seems some species may be able to significantly exceed these numbers. Regardless, do you think a vampire would be limited to roughly these figures? Or, considering they're undead beings, perhaps they wouldn't get tired in their wolf form and they could run for hundreds of miles each night.

Really, I just want to know, between their gaseous/bat/and wolf states, which of them enables a vampire to travel the farthest in one night. What do you think? Currently, I'm thinking their gaseous state wins, but if they don't get tired flying/running around in their alternate forms, then that would crush their gaseous state.

I figured this qualified as another odd vampire question.

"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."

"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?"

Edited by - Scimitars of Drizzt on 10 Nov 2020 05:51:32
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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker

Canada
76 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2020 :  06:00:53  Show Profile Send Scimitars of Drizzt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The more I think about it, considering their internal organs are practically - if not entirely - shut down, and they're just run by negative energy, they probably wouldn't get tired and could run hundreds of miles in one night as a wolf. But I don't own any sourcebooks, so perhaps I'm missing something. Would still love to hear your thoughts.

"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."

"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?"
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7311 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2020 :  06:20:47  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
It's stated in the RAW that a vampire can travel 9 miles every 2 hours in its gaseous form. So a vampire could travel about 54 miles per night in this state, depending on the precise amount of sunlight limiting it.

In practice the vampire could only travel half this maximum distance. Because if it can't return to its coffin in time then the one-way trip ends in death.

Unless it could travel by teleport or some other means. But then of course maximum effective range would be limited by this other travel mechanism instead of by inherent vampire abilities.

[/Ayrik]
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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker

Canada
76 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2020 :  06:55:57  Show Profile Send Scimitars of Drizzt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

quote:
It's stated in the RAW that a vampire can travel 9 miles every 2 hours in its gaseous form. So a vampire could travel about 54 miles per night in this state, depending on the precise amount of sunlight limiting it.

In practice the vampire could only travel half this maximum distance. Because if it can't return to its coffin in time then the one-way trip ends in death.

Unless it could travel by teleport or some other means. But then of course maximum effective range would be limited by this other travel mechanism instead of by inherent vampire abilities.



So that travel speed is only limited to if the vampire dies (reaches 0 HP) and must return to his coffin to rest? I see that's where it's stated in the RAW, but I assumed if he willingly turns to gaseous state then he can still travel at a speed of 9 miles every 2 hours.

I was just wondering about a vampire who transforms to gaseous state at will, solely for the purpose of covering ground. If he's carrying his coffin with him - say on his person from a shrinking spell - then why couldn't he travel at this speed to cover over 50 miles per night? Then when day time hits he rests, and repeats the process the next day.

And then I go back to if this is the fastest method, between that and his bat/wolf form, and whether or not he would get tired or if he can travel hundreds of miles because he's undead. All this considering he's carrying his coffin on him.

"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."

"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?"

Edited by - Scimitars of Drizzt on 10 Nov 2020 06:59:59
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2020 :  07:08:11  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seeker Drizzt,

quote:
And then I go back to if this is the fastest method, between that and his bat/wolf form, and whether or not he would get tired or if he can travel hundreds of miles because he's undead. All this considering he's carrying his coffin on him.



Since the vampire has no CON, it could go the entire time (until day, etc.). At that rate, it would be quicker to go as a bat or a work.

Best regards,






Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker

Canada
76 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2020 :  07:15:45  Show Profile Send Scimitars of Drizzt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Seeker Drizzt,

quote:
And then I go back to if this is the fastest method, between that and his bat/wolf form, and whether or not he would get tired or if he can travel hundreds of miles because he's undead. All this considering he's carrying his coffin on him.



Since the vampire has no CON, it could go the entire time (until day, etc.). At that rate, it would be quicker to go as a bat or a work.

Best regards,



Perfect, I was starting to think that was the case. Thank you master cpthero2.

"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."

"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?"
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1716 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2020 :  03:26:54  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@GElcur I'm glad this post popped up, you're find on those spells is awesome. I continue to be amazed at how much lore I've missed over the years.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1764 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2020 :  07:41:39  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Arcanamach,

I think the same thing often. It is astounding at how much is out there for the sage or scribe to dig into and never even remotely get close to hitting bottom!

It's certainly one of the reasons I love this site as much as I do. Fantastic!

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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