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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8057 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2013 :  18:38:13  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Reading Ed's recent article on the Halarkenblood family (couriers who transport goods within their bodies), made me think about Marsupials and carrying things in their pouch. That made me wonder, are there any canon instances of marsupials on Toril (one can make an assumption that perhaps in Osse they might be found, but that would be trying to make Osse more like Australia). I suspect somewhere there MIGHT be a reference to an opossum, but I can't recall one. In thinking about it, my mind went to the idea of armor clad dire kangaroos with halflings riding in their pouches and Halflings mounted on dire opossums and dire "spotted tailed native cats" also known as a quoll


I used my google-fu to see if I could come up with a list to compare against.

List of Earthly Marsupials
Kangaroo
Wallaby (some kind of smaller kangaroo)
opossum
koala
Tasmanian devil
sugar glider (looks like some kind of flying squirrel)
wombat
numbat
spotted-tailed native cat / quoll (looks like a weasel/cat mix)
crest-tailed marsupial mouse
marsupial mole
bandicoot (called a pig-rat/some kind of mouse with a long snout)

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8057 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2013 :  18:41:20  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
oh, and the reason I was thinking about the halflings mounted on dire quolls was that they may serve as an interesting place for them to hide goods, as the average Faerunian might consider the creature an oddly colored dire weasel.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2013 :  18:54:36  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The only ones I can think of (except for opossums mentioned in Elminsters Ecologies) are the intelligent wombats (the best idea since intelligent, slave driving tapirs)in Ring of Winter. Unfortunately they have since then been criminally underused in the Realms.

No Canon, more stories, more Realms.

Edited by - Jorkens on 02 Aug 2013 18:54:51
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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1757 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2013 :  19:23:26  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
not really marsupials, but kappas in Kara-Tur have pouches

and kodragons from Dragonlance
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32146 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2013 :  20:05:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What about dropbears?

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8057 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2013 :  20:59:55  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

What about dropbears?



ok, you piqued my interest....what's a dropbear?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32146 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2013 :  21:51:40  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

What about dropbears?



ok, you piqued my interest....what's a dropbear?



Drop bear article on Wikipedia

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rjfras
Learned Scribe

261 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2013 :  23:40:19  Show Profile  Visit rjfras's Homepage Send rjfras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

The only ones I can think of (except for opossums mentioned in Elminsters Ecologies) are the intelligent wombats (the best idea since intelligent, slave driving tapirs)in Ring of Winter. Unfortunately they have since then been criminally underused in the Realms.



There are definitely other marsupials then the opossum based on the wording in Elminster's Ecologies

quote:
There has been a great deal of trapping of hill
animals in recent years, and a particular demand for
marsupials such as the opossum. It has become popular
for people to sport purses made from the
pouches of marsupials and other soft furry creatures.


They say marsupials, meaning more then one kind, and just list the opossum as one example of said marsupials.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2013 :  03:50:09  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with sleyvas on being careful about the assumption with the "Osse as Australia" comparison.

Aside from a few obvious examples in the Lady of Poison novel, I usually don't agree with the many who say that Osse is a direct translation of, or heavily influenced by, Australian Aborigine culture. Gunggari's mannerisms aside [as well as his dizheri], it could be said that the supposed "ways" of the Osse people are very well be associated with many other examples of Polynesian tribal cultures. I always thought the actual name "Osse" was a bit of a joke as a matter of fact...

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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
342 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2013 :  05:05:00  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Byrt and Lugg were a fun but very strange addition to The Ring of Winter. Oddly, they seemed rather British. There's a little bit about the wombat island (off the coast of Orlil in Lantan) and their community. Platypuses are also mentioned, though they're monotremes rather than marsupials. The wombat island would be a great place to adventure, I think. :)

I had a PC meet a talking wombat in a wild tale, though the rest of the party put this down to the strange mushrooms she'd foraged and eaten. ;)

I need to read Lady of Poison, though I have skimmed it and heard about it. Gunggari mentions the "Alcheringa" or "Altjeringa", directly lifted from Aboriginal terms for the Dreamtime. The 'tattooed solder' thing is unusual, as tattooing generally isn't practised by Australian Aboriginals as a traditional thing. Ritual scarification would be more appropriate. So that bit seems more Maori or Polynesian. (It sounds like he has the Tattooed Monk prestige class.)

Of course, that whole area ought to be a mix of Aboriginal, Papuan, Maori, and Polynesian influences, but given magic and a land that isn't a total dead wasteland for them to develop and diversify, building farms, towns, castles, realms, and so on for things to be very different but clearly inspired by.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15711 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2013 :  13:48:45  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Absolutely HATED those Wombats.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8057 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2013 :  21:35:24  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rjfras

quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

The only ones I can think of (except for opossums mentioned in Elminsters Ecologies) are the intelligent wombats (the best idea since intelligent, slave driving tapirs)in Ring of Winter. Unfortunately they have since then been criminally underused in the Realms.



There are definitely other marsupials then the opossum based on the wording in Elminster's Ecologies

quote:
There has been a great deal of trapping of hill
animals in recent years, and a particular demand for
marsupials such as the opossum. It has become popular
for people to sport purses made from the
pouches of marsupials and other soft furry creatures.


They say marsupials, meaning more then one kind, and just list the opossum as one example of said marsupials.



Just wondering, WHICH of Elminster's Ecologies is this from, just so that we might know which area sports these marsupials?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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rjfras
Learned Scribe

261 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2013 :  00:40:06  Show Profile  Visit rjfras's Homepage Send rjfras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elminster's Ecologies: Explorer Manual

The section the marsupials reference comes from is about Cormyr.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15711 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2013 :  14:01:51  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wonder why we never got an official Marsupials of Faerūn?

In 2e, we would have gotten a Complete Marsupial Handbook.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore

USA
1279 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2013 :  05:53:23  Show Profile  Visit Mournblade's Homepage  Send Mournblade an AOL message  Click to see Mournblade's MSN Messenger address  Send Mournblade a Yahoo! Message Send Mournblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Evolution is not a viable method of life generation in the D&D Worlds. Clearly the realms had a creator race. That throws evolution out the window. Which works for a fantasy world even if the creation notion is ridiculous for this one.

Marsupials are the result of Australia separating from antarctica and india, and not having the selection pressures to advance to the placenta.

Marsupials are merely a 'less advanced' form of mammal, and should be able to be placed anywhere in the realms.

Afterall we place North American Fauna with European Fauna without a thought. Why should placing Australian wildlife in a faerun ecosystem be any different? The only thing I am cognizant of is placing the marsupial in the climate zone it is commonly found.

Consider this: Having a Reindeer and a Raccoon live in the same forest, is as mismatched as having a wallaby and a raccoon live in the same forest.

Raccoons are indigenous to North America.

Place marsupials wherever you want them. Faerun ecology is not in any way parallel to Earth's.


A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to...
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
473 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2013 :  08:10:58  Show Profile  Visit Old Man Harpell's Homepage Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

I agree with sleyvas on being careful about the assumption with the "Osse as Australia" comparison.

Aside from a few obvious examples in the Lady of Poison novel, I usually don't agree with the many who say that Osse is a direct translation of, or heavily influenced by, Australian Aborigine culture. Gunggari's mannerisms aside [as well as his dizheri], it could be said that the supposed "ways" of the Osse people are very well be associated with many other examples of Polynesian tribal cultures. I always thought the actual name "Osse" was a bit of a joke as a matter of fact...


Considering where you live, Sage, it makes sense to defer to your perceptions, but if I may:

I always looked at Osse exactly as a quasi-analog of Australia - the name and its presumed pronunciation, Osse (pronounced 'Aussie'), with many of the same features as your homeland (and more besides, as Osse at least appears to occupy more landmass than Oz does). I would also assume the plant and wildlife to be similar - no other place on Toril would have many of the things Osse does, just as Down Under here on Spaceship Earth has things found nowhere else (zoos and the like notwithstanding).

Now, I will grant that it would not be automatically a place for anything like the Aboriginal or Maori peoples - that may be stretching it a bit. Maybe at some point in the past, sure, hence some similarly-sounding names gleaned from carvings or writings from a vanished civilization, but what's to say the RSE's that we all know and lo - well, know, at least, might not have brought something utterly foreign and exotic into those places?

I used a variant of the Iron Kingdoms in Osse, but otherwise, a native Australian transposed would have immediately been able to recognize many things, plant and animal life in particular. One of these days, I may even be able to afford a trip to Australia so I can get a handle on what I've been assuming all this time.

- OMH
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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
342 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2013 :  04:11:27  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually, the opossum is an American animal, found throughout North and Central America:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opossum

Meanwhile, the possum is a related species found in Australia and South-East Asia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possum

One starts with an 'o', the other doesn't.

BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2013 :  04:14:12  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

I used a variant of the Iron Kingdoms in Osse, ...
Oh, no you don't. You can't just drop something like this into a conversation without explaining it further.

Let's hear about this variant of the IK you've based in Osse. It sounds positively intriguing.

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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1519 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2013 :  12:37:39  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade

Evolution is not a viable method of life generation in the D&D Worlds. Clearly the realms had a creator race. That throws evolution out the window.

Not necessarily... Maybe many races were originally created, by one or more races and/or deities, and afterwards natural selection pressed on regional or minor speciation.

Besides, magic could accelerate evolutionary processes. Have you ever seen the 2e Chronomancer book?

Edit: This is not a Realmsian book, but an AD&D sourcebook about time dimension and magic. Look specially for the "Devolutionary warrior" spell, it has a interesting point about evolution and elves...

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 06 Aug 2013 12:48:55
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8057 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2013 :  13:22:04  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan

Actually, the opossum is an American animal, found throughout North and Central America:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opossum

Meanwhile, the possum is a related species found in Australia and South-East Asia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possum

One starts with an 'o', the other doesn't.



interesting... I never realized this, I always thought it was just a different spelling, but the two creatures are significantly different (one has a bushy tail, the other a longer snout).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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lookatroopa
Acolyte

Netherlands
7 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2019 :  17:56:57  Show Profile Send lookatroopa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The thylacine and its jackalwere-like shapeshifting kin from Monstrous Compendium Appendix III, while erroneously referred to as felines, are marsupials. The zorbos from Tomb of Annihilation are based off of koalas and can therefore also be considered marsupials.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1519 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2019 :  11:21:35  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lookatroopa
The thylacine and its jackalwere-like shapeshifting kin from Monstrous Compendium Appendix III, while erroneously referred to as felines, are marsupials.



The FR thylacine is a different animal than the marsupial in RW. Same name only.


EDIT: format

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 29 Jan 2019 11:15:22
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