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 Sardior and the start of his Church
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kalos72
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Posted - 30 Jun 2018 :  02:45:04  Show Profile Send kalos72 a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Does anyone know when Sardior came into being by the books?

I have a write up that meets one of my PC's background and thought it might be nice to get some feedback, good or bad. :)

An abbreviated version:

-276 DR - Ioulaum escorts 17 year old Gatriel Ravenwood, a direct descendant of Jhaam Ravenwood, founder of the nation of Jhaamdath and daughter to the current Blade Lord Dagith Ravenwood as she flees the coup that killed everyone else in her family line - provides asylum for the girl in The North - Ravenwood being a great metamind, trains Ioulaum in the ways of Psionics in return

-254 DR - Ioulaum and Gatriel marry - After learning of the complete and total destruction of Jhaamdath - Ioulaum allowing Gatriel access to all his known spells to convert to Psionic powers - Gatriel benefits from Ioulaum Longevity spell

1092 DR - Gatriel Ravenwood, the last living follower of Auppenser is approached by Sardior and invited to his court. There she is give the chance to worship Sardior and start his following on the Prime Material Plane in exchange for Sardior’s ability to create psionic powers at will.

The Church of Sardior is born.

Seradess, one of Sardior’s Thanes, is outraged at the offer and plots to remove Sardior from the Dragonic Patheon for offering a mere human such power.

1093 DR - Seradess sends her personal guard of Obsidian Dragons to kill Gatriel as she worships at the Altar of Sardior in Neverwinter, dedicated to the Master of Gem Dragons that very morning. Gatriel calls to Sardior for help during the attack, explaining the nature of the call. Sardior, now aware of Seradess’s betrayal, kills his Thane and banishes the Obsidian Dragons from his court. As Gatriel lays dying, Sardior offers her salvation by becoming his first Solar. Gatriel accepts and moves to Sardior’s Pantheon.

TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

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Posted - 30 Jun 2018 :  15:38:06  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sardior goes back to the first appearance of the gem dragons, I believe in 1E (maybe 2E), in Dragon Magazine. Not a lot on the gem dragons in the Realms. He's not mentioned in Dragons of Faerun. The only thing I saw that had any Realms significance was http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sardior
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

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Posted - 30 Jun 2018 :  15:39:30  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's up to you, but you could also create a connection with Jhamdaath and Auppenser.
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kalos72
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Posted - 30 Jun 2018 :  16:41:22  Show Profile Send kalos72 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Auppenser was the Jhaamdathian primary god I think...

I am trying to tie in my PC to the Sardior Church, maybe as a Chosen of Sardior.

Since he isnt in any edition of the FR stuff I am guessing on when he started to be considered as the psionic god since Auppenser is "sleeping". And give some reasoning behind the expulsion of the Obsidian Dragons too.

Not sure if it all makes sense, just creating my own I guess.
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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 30 Jun 2018 :  17:50:39  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of course what few people know is of the Dragon Ghauppenesaradior who lived in the Osraun Mountains and was the secret patron and great grandsire of Jhaam of the Dath Dynasty and supported the Dath Dynasty throughout it's reign

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sleyvas
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Posted - 01 Jul 2018 :  01:24:53  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

It's up to you, but you could also create a connection with Jhamdaath and Auppenser.



Yeah, we were doing that... maybe last year... basically Sardior is a god of psionics and a god of gem dragons... Auppenser is a "sleeping" god of psionics who is surviving with little to no worshippers.... Dragon Deities are known to be able to survive so long as they have at least a single dragon that worships them. So, Auppenser just might be another name for Sardior, and the Jhaamdathi natives just MAY have learned their mind magics FROM gem dragons if one delves back.

Interestingly enough... it just occurred to me... I wonder if some of the earliest "psicrystals" were gem dragon "scales".

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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The Masked Mage
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USA
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Posted - 01 Jul 2018 :  03:27:48  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not buying into the gem dragons being all benevolent and teaching their lunch psionics, but I like the thought that gem dragon scales were used this way.
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George Krashos
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Posted - 01 Jul 2018 :  05:27:48  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, I like that a lot sleyvas. Makes me think that udoxias in Jhaamdath weren't necessarily crystals ...

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 01 Jul 2018 :  05:41:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like the idea of Sardior being first, and the gem dragons teaching psionics to humans. I was thinking that before Sleyvas suggested it, but I didn't have a good spin for it -- the question of why was looming too large in my mind.

It occurs to me now, though, that gem dragons may have taught psionics to humans (not necessarily the Jhaamdathi or even their ancestors) as a way to deal with some threat the gem dragons either saw coming or were actively dealing with. It wasn't as much a gift as it was training an attack dog/cannon fodder. They didn't wish the humans ill, of course, they just thought of psionic humans as a good tool/weapon they could use.

Maybe the gem dragons knew of Xxiphu and giving psionics to humans was part of a very long-term plan to deal with it...

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 01 Jul 2018 :  07:39:14  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Yes, I like that a lot sleyvas. Makes me think that udoxias in Jhaamdath weren't necessarily crystals ...

-- George Krashos



Ooh now that's a fun thought.

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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 01 Jul 2018 :  13:32:51  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm kind of imagining a udoxia as a psionic version of a spell pool that lots of acolytes spent their time donating energy into the udoxia while a select few were able to draw energy from it.

Now we have mention of beings like murdane and valigorn but no mention of when they appeared. I wonder if they weren't a very late addition after the udoxia were starved of energy for a time (When they were confiscated) and released something.

I wonder would the Dragon that ruled Westgate be a result of this (I think he was a topaz Dragon but I forget things alot lately).


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kalos72
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Posted - 01 Jul 2018 :  15:16:31  Show Profile Send kalos72 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In our campaign, we are using neverwinter as a base to create a psionic realm with the main OPC being a Psion/Pyrokineticist whose mother was the first worshipper of Sardior os the God of Psionics.

They are working on recreating the udoxian, acting like a spionic mythal in their minds. But giving all psionic citizens of the city, the ability to use any of the stored powers/feats and MAYBE bestowing some additional manifestor levels or power point reserve.

They were making it a giant ruby floating above the keep...

i LIKE the psicrystals being gem dragon scales, thats a great idea.

My concern was the timeline in which Sardior became active given my timelines vs any printer material.

I assume even a lesser god like Sardior would have Solars/Angels supporting them to some degree?
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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 01 Jul 2018 :  22:20:46  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Officially I doubt you will find much realmslore on sardior as he is a core deity if I recall correctly.

You could check out the various monster mythology books across the editions to see if there is anything in there on his divine servants.

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kalos72
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Posted - 01 Jul 2018 :  23:00:29  Show Profile Send kalos72 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is there any example with other gods, regarding the supporting angel staff they might recruit? Its always been a gray area in my mind anyways...
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 01 Jul 2018 :  23:53:10  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kalos72

Is there any example with other gods, regarding the supporting angel staff they might recruit? Its always been a gray area in my mind anyways...



Look at the 2E godbooks: Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities. Those books are the best source of divine lore we have, and each listing includes what types of servants deities prefer.

The books are available as legal pdfs from DrivethruRPG.com.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 Jul 2018 23:53:41
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sleyvas
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Posted - 02 Jul 2018 :  01:46:33  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Not buying into the gem dragons being all benevolent and teaching their lunch psionics, but I like the thought that gem dragon scales were used this way.



It also may not have been a benevolent transfer. It may have involved trickery. It may have involved coercion. It may have involved blood transfusions of some sort. It may have involved a body transfer.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 02 Jul 2018 :  02:05:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Not buying into the gem dragons being all benevolent and teaching their lunch psionics, but I like the thought that gem dragon scales were used this way.



It also may not have been a benevolent transfer. It may have involved trickery. It may have involved coercion. It may have involved blood transfusions of some sort. It may have involved a body transfer.



It may have been unintentional. What if the first human psionicists were gemstone half-dragons?

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sleyvas
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Posted - 02 Jul 2018 :  02:06:58  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I'm kind of imagining a udoxia as a psionic version of a spell pool that lots of acolytes spent their time donating energy into the udoxia while a select few were able to draw energy from it.

Now we have mention of beings like murdane and valigorn but no mention of when they appeared. I wonder if they weren't a very late addition after the udoxia were starved of energy for a time (When they were confiscated) and released something.

I wonder would the Dragon that ruled Westgate be a result of this (I think he was a topaz Dragon but I forget things alot lately).





Yeah, another idea that we had previously is that Kisonrathiisar (the topaz dragon that ruled Westgate) were dragons taking the place of Sardior's Thanes. These Thanes may or may not be immortal. These Thanes might also have produced children, and thus Kisonrathiisar might be a child of Tithonnas.


Sardior kept a court of five thanes, one for each of the various breeds of gem dragons. They were Aleithilithos (an amethyst dragon), Hrodel (a crystal dragon), Smargad (an emerald dragon), Charisma (a sapphire dragon), and Tithonnas (a topaz dragon). Sardior once had a sixth thane, Seradess, (a obsidian dragon), but he destroyed her and banished the obsidian dragons from his court. Even his own clergy didn't know the exact reason behind this decision.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
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Posted - 02 Jul 2018 :  02:09:32  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kalos72

Is there any example with other gods, regarding the supporting angel staff they might recruit? Its always been a gray area in my mind anyways...



Abishai might be converted as a thought.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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dazzlerdal
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Posted - 02 Jul 2018 :  07:30:49  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Six Thanes (terrible nomenclature) can easily approximate to the "born" of appended.

With a bit of name fudging we can put murdane and valigorn in there.

Then we have the late pantheon of jhaamdath. An early pantheon of jhaamdath will be needed that came from their tribal roots which was gradually abandoned as psionic grew to power

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sleyvas
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Posted - 03 Jul 2018 :  01:23:38  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Auppenser being the "Lord of Reason" and Murdane being a "lesser deity of Reason and Pragmatism", it could easily be that Murdane is a "daughter" or servant deity of Auppenser. Somehow Lathander was involved with her death as a part of the dawn cataclysm. Also, apparently Murdane "drowned in the bitch queen's embrace" during the fall of Jhaamdath, which led to Helm not liking Lathander, since Helm and Murdane were a thing.

Just to throw out there as well, what little we know of Sardior is that he makes his home in a huge floating castle, which orbits the world and stays forever in the shadows from the sun. On the nights it can be seen, viewers mistake it for a small red moon.

So, around the time of the fall of Jhaamdath (-255 DR), the Netherese were big on making enclaves. The idea of big floating castles in the sky was fairly commonplace (The Netherese started in -2954 DR and most of the Netherese ones fell in -339 DR). I wouldn't be surprised if Sardior took over a Netherese Enclave OR if Sardior simply used his Udoxias to simply make a floating castle similar to a Netherese enclave (hell, we might find out that the Netherese copied the idea). Hell, I also wouldn't be surprised if Sardior wasn't living on one of the Tears of Selune, having taken it over after his servants tried to blast the king killer star and instead shot the moon and created the tears from the "Hill of Seven Lost Gods".... and if we dig down in there, maybe we'll find that that "dragon laser" was powered by a psionic udoxias.

Also, there was a being known as Laszik Silvermind who started the Jhaamdathi down the road to psionics and then he "ascended". There's probably a ton we can do with that, since it was 7 thousand year ago. He could be a "Thane". He could be Auppenser's avatar. He could have been the mortal form of Auppenser who took a human form to gain human followers. He could have been a child or grandchild of Auppenser. Or he could just be a human favored by Auppenser and trained by them.

One final note, regarding Kisonraathiisar the Topaz dragon ruler of Westgate (so northern part of Jhaamdath?) he's noted as having made his realm filled with "the tribes of dragonkin that I have carefully nurtured into stewards of my demesne,"... so the idea that the gem dragons may have been breeding some humans into half dragons for psionic potential and protection may have merit.


–5730 DR
Through the great psion mystic Laszik Silvermind, the deity Auppenser delivers to the people of Jhaamdath a plan for the empire’s growth and prosperity. Jhaamdath quickly enacts Auppenser’s first divine precept, outlawing slavery throughout the land.
–5725 DR
Laszik crafts the first udoxias, a powerful psionic artifact. Psionic beings in mental contact with the udoxias are granted access to one of many powers contained within. The range of the udoxias extends for miles beyond Naarkolyth, and many citizens throughout the region flock to the city to acquire this mysterious mind-magic.
–5710 DR
Psionic learning blooms in Naarkolyth.
–5700 DR
Jhaamdath abandons its oligarchy and adopts a psiocratic government.
–5690 DR
An aged Laszik Silvermind mysteriously vanishes and is believed to have ascended whole to serve at Auppenser’s side.
–1603 DR
Noble families among the bladelords of Jhaamdath construct the magical refuge of Dhinnilith, a secure pocket plane accessed through the palace at Naarkolyth.
–349 DR Year of Bold Poachers
The Netherese wizard Saldrinar destroys Kisonraathiisar, the topaz dragon ruler of Westgate [–286], and becomes the city’s first human king.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
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Posted - 08 Oct 2018 :  17:25:22  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seeker kalos72,

Here you are: right from the tap!

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030124a

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by kalos72

Does anyone know when Sardior came into being by the books?

I have a write up that meets one of my PC's background and thought it might be nice to get some feedback, good or bad. :)

An abbreviated version:

-276 DR - Ioulaum escorts 17 year old Gatriel Ravenwood, a direct descendant of Jhaam Ravenwood, founder of the nation of Jhaamdath and daughter to the current Blade Lord Dagith Ravenwood as she flees the coup that killed everyone else in her family line - provides asylum for the girl in The North - Ravenwood being a great metamind, trains Ioulaum in the ways of Psionics in return

-254 DR - Ioulaum and Gatriel marry - After learning of the complete and total destruction of Jhaamdath - Ioulaum allowing Gatriel access to all his known spells to convert to Psionic powers - Gatriel benefits from Ioulaum Longevity spell

1092 DR - Gatriel Ravenwood, the last living follower of Auppenser is approached by Sardior and invited to his court. There she is give the chance to worship Sardior and start his following on the Prime Material Plane in exchange for Sardior’s ability to create psionic powers at will.

The Church of Sardior is born.

Seradess, one of Sardior’s Thanes, is outraged at the offer and plots to remove Sardior from the Dragonic Patheon for offering a mere human such power.

1093 DR - Seradess sends her personal guard of Obsidian Dragons to kill Gatriel as she worships at the Altar of Sardior in Neverwinter, dedicated to the Master of Gem Dragons that very morning. Gatriel calls to Sardior for help during the attack, explaining the nature of the call. Sardior, now aware of Seradess’s betrayal, kills his Thane and banishes the Obsidian Dragons from his court. As Gatriel lays dying, Sardior offers her salvation by becoming his first Solar. Gatriel accepts and moves to Sardior’s Pantheon.



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
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