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 Erevis Cale and Kessen-Rel?
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

887 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2020 :  20:06:29  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So Erevis Cale, Rivalen Tanthul and Drasek Riven each took a shard of power from the god Mask to defeat Volumvax/ Kessen Rel, correct? You must have some mighty stats to take on a demi-god. What about Magadon? A Psychic Psionic so powerful that he can move a Shadovar Enclave by himself against the Mythallar's will?

So tell me if I'm close...

Rivalen Tanthul: CR 37; Shade Shadovar Wizard 11/ Shadow Adept 7/ Cleric 15 of Shar.

Erevis Cale: CR 29; Shade human Rogue 5/ Assassin 5/ Cleric 15 of Mask.

Drasek Riven: CR 25; Fighter 10/ Assassin 10/ Divine Champion 5 of Mask.

I'm not good at stats for Psionics like Magadon.



Anyone want to contribute?

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5765 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2020 :  07:12:39  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think it's always challenging and not altogether productive to give fiction antagonists game stats.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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redking
Seeker

61 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2020 :  13:57:20  Show Profile Send redking a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
I think it's always challenging and not altogether productive to give fiction antagonists game stats.


LOL. I'm the guy that started a thread called 3.5 - changing stat blocks for narrative accuracy.

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21476

For what its worth, I suggested this change to Rivalens classes.

Wizard 5, Cleric 5, Shadow Adept 10 (5 levels into wizard spell progression, 5 levels into cleric spell progression split), Mystic Theurge 10, Archmage 3

Edited by - redking on 19 Jan 2020 13:58:43
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33193 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2020 :  13:57:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I think it's always challenging and not altogether productive to give fiction antagonists game stats.

-- George Krashos



Agreed. Part of the problem is that the fictional characters are often given abilities, tools, and options that the plot and their backstory require. If you're telling a story, the plot is what matters -- not some rulebook that's going to be invalidated in a few years.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of the published characters of the Realms began as a concept specifically for their first fictional appearance, and not as a playable character.

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redking
Seeker

61 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2020 :  14:05:32  Show Profile Send redking a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
I'm willing to bet that the majority of the published characters of the Realms began as a concept specifically for their first fictional appearance, and not as a playable character.


I am also the guy that sent a Direct Message to Wooly Rupert asking for stats for one of his fictional characters ;(
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33193 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2020 :  21:23:17  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by redking

quote:
I'm willing to bet that the majority of the published characters of the Realms began as a concept specifically for their first fictional appearance, and not as a playable character.


I am also the guy that sent a Direct Message to Wooly Rupert asking for stats for one of his fictional characters ;(



Heh, I'd forgotten about that.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2402 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2020 :  04:14:06  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm going to agree that you can't always apply game stats to fictional characters (even if they're written in a game setting).

Sweet water and light laughter
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

559 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2020 :  15:29:15  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kesson had official stats in a splatbook. IIRC he was a low epic with divine rank 0

Edit: Faiths&Pantheons, page 173.

half-fiend shade, Clr7/Sha8/Dis5 of Shar, DvR 0

Edited by - Mirtek on 13 Feb 2020 18:26:16
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

887 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2020 :  20:40:28  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek

Kesson had official stats in a splatbook. IIRC he was a low epic with divine rank 0

Edit: Faiths&Pantheons, page 173.

half-fiend shade, Clr7/Sha8/Dis5 of Shar, DvR 0



I'm not sure you can be CR 20; Divine rank 0 and have these stats.

Divine rank 0 gives you abilities and immunities that are ultra-epic, maybe CR 30 at least to begin with. I can't imagine the sentence Low epic NPC with divine rank 0. At level 21 you're epic. not level 20. Once you're epic not much changes at all. besides some skills, feats and abilities. Kesson Rel was certainly a HD 40 NPC with a divine rank of 0.

That would put Erevis Cale at CR 25 with the shadow-shard of Masks divinity.

Drasik Rivin at CR 23 with the other shadow-shard of Masks divinity.

And lastly Rivalen Tanthul at CR 32 with his shadow-shard of Masks divinity.

A CR of 32, 25 and 23 together is enough to possibly defeat a 0 divine grade demi-power. Hence why they beat Volumvax in the books on record.

What... Kesson Rel (Volumvax) at most was a demi-god?? Aren't Demi-gods less than divine rank 0? I could be mistaken.
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

559 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2020 :  16:33:45  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

I'm not sure you can be CR 20; Divine rank 0 and have these stats.
You definately can, because that's how they printed him

quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

Divine rank 0 gives you abilities and immunities that are ultra-epic, maybe CR 30 at least to begin with.
Actually while I agree that DvR 0 should give such abilities, they are not that ultra epic compared to some other templates (e.g. just being undead gives you a good chunk of them).
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

I can't imagine the sentence Low epic NPC with divine rank 0.
Deities & Demigods actually has a lvl 20 Expert with DvR 1 for crying out loud.

quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

What... Kesson Rel (Volumvax) at most was a demi-god?? Aren't Demi-gods less than divine rank 0? I could be mistaken.

DvR 0 is the lowest form of divinity. Demigods are 1-5, lesser 6-10, intermediate 11-15 and greater deities 16-20.

Edited by - Mirtek on 20 Mar 2020 16:40:12
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

887 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2020 :  22:01:52  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you!
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
809 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2020 :  20:57:25  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

So Erevis Cale, Rivalen Tanthul and Drasek Riven each took a shard of power from the god Mask to defeat Volumvax/ Kessen Rel, correct? You must have some mighty stats to take on a demi-god. What about Magadon? A Psychic Psionic so powerful that he can move a Shadovar Enclave by himself against the Mythallar's will?

So tell me if I'm close...

Rivalen Tanthul: CR 37; Shade Shadovar Wizard 11/ Shadow Adept 7/ Cleric 15 of Shar.

Erevis Cale: CR 29; Shade human Rogue 5/ Assassin 5/ Cleric 15 of Mask.

Drasek Riven: CR 25; Fighter 10/ Assassin 10/ Divine Champion 5 of Mask.

I'm not good at stats for Psionics like Magadon.



Anyone want to contribute?



Volumvax/Kesson Rel is stated in one of the faiths and pantheons book from 3rd edition.

he's a half fiend cleric 7, Shade 8, Divine Disciple 5 of shar. While that does not sound like much, with quasi divine power boosting him, it turns ordinary into extraordinary

he's only quasi divine. Meaning he is divine rank 0, just a step under a demi god. Usually divine rank 0 gives the person 2 or more abilities that are far above the norm for their race.

other sorts that fall into divine rank 0 are half human, half god sons/daughters. the seven sisters of Mystra for example.

not sure where you got "against the Mythellar's will" from. The mythellar loves Magadon and would answer him above all others. And in fact did in that book. As soon as he connected with the thing it granted him abilities that fall into quasi divine.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

887 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2020 :  21:17:16  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

So Erevis Cale, Rivalen Tanthul and Drasek Riven each took a shard of power from the god Mask to defeat Volumvax/ Kessen Rel, correct? You must have some mighty stats to take on a demi-god. What about Magadon? A Psychic Psionic so powerful that he can move a Shadovar Enclave by himself against the Mythallar's will?

So tell me if I'm close...

Rivalen Tanthul: CR 37; Shade Shadovar Wizard 11/ Shadow Adept 7/ Cleric 15 of Shar.

Erevis Cale: CR 29; Shade human Rogue 5/ Assassin 5/ Cleric 15 of Mask.

Drasek Riven: CR 25; Fighter 10/ Assassin 10/ Divine Champion 5 of Mask.

I'm not good at stats for Psionics like Magadon.



Anyone want to contribute?



Volumvax/Kesson Rel is stated in one of the faiths and pantheons book from 3rd edition.

he's a half fiend cleric 7, Shade 8, Divine Disciple 5 of shar. While that does not sound like much, with quasi divine power boosting him, it turns ordinary into extraordinary

he's only quasi divine. Meaning he is divine rank 0, just a step under a demi god. Usually divine rank 0 gives the person 2 or more abilities that are far above the norm for their race.

other sorts that fall into divine rank 0 are half human, half god sons/daughters. the seven sisters of Mystra for example.

not sure where you got "against the Mythellar's will" from. The mythellar loves Magadon and would answer him above all others. And in fact did in that book. As soon as he connected with the thing it granted him abilities that fall into quasi divine.



Shade 8?? Shade is a Template, not a class or PrC.
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

559 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2020 :  21:45:58  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think Sha8 means 8th level Shadow Adept

Edited by - Mirtek on 22 Mar 2020 21:46:13
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

887 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2020 :  18:37:33  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek

I think Sha8 means 8th level Shadow Adept



Yes, It does. cool. Makes more sense now. So Kesson Rel is a Quasi-deity? Isn't that the same as a Demi-god?
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2402 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2020 :  18:44:28  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Even though quasi and demi essentially mean the same thing, I always thought of a demigod as having official divine status, whereas a quasi deity is just a really powerful person (like Kesson-Rel), but doesn't have the role of a god. I could be wrong, however, and the terms could be interchangeable.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

887 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2020 :  23:58:23  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Even though quasi and demi essentially mean the same thing, I always thought of a demigod as having official divine status, whereas a quasi deity is just a really powerful person (like Kesson-Rel), but doesn't have the role of a god. I could be wrong, however, and the terms could be interchangeable.


so Volumvax is a demi-god. Or interchangeably a Quasi?

I just wondered why 3 chosen would have a hard time killing such a demi-power unless that said power was a Demi-god.

The City of Shade would have a hard time controlling Kesson Rel if they chose to charm him. Let alone Rivalen Tanthul... Imagine Telemont Tanthul being part of that. I read once that it took only 12 Shade Priests to control Mephistopheles.

Imagine what the Leader can do without constraints.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2402 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  00:24:45  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Even though quasi and demi essentially mean the same thing, I always thought of a demigod as having official divine status, whereas a quasi deity is just a really powerful person (like Kesson-Rel), but doesn't have the role of a god. I could be wrong, however, and the terms could be interchangeable.



so Volumvax is a demi-god. Or interchangeably a Quasi?



I don't know. Like I said, I [I]think[I/] demigod is applied to those who have officially gained divine status. I haven't seen quasigod used in that manner (in fact, I've rarely seen the term at all), so I'm just guessing quasi is applied to those who are "halfway" to godhood, but aren't "officially" divine (even if only demigod status), if that makes sense. I haven't seen quasi used much.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

559 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  21:05:30  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In game rule terms a demigod is DvR 1-5, while a quasi deity is only DvR 0 (and a mortal has no DvR at all).

As a quasi deity Kesson has no salient divine abilities yet and lacks some other divine traits (no energy immunities, no domain powers and some other stuff)

It's all here:

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#rank0

Note that while it says Most deities are 20 HD outsiders with 30 to 50 character levels as well. Most just does not mean all.

Kesson is one example, the lvl 20 expert demigod in DDG is another of deities that do not have that many levels and/or HD.

As a quasi deity Kesson has:

  • maximum hit points for each Hit Die

  • can move much more quickly than mortals (doubled base speed)

  • natural attacks as well as any weapons he wields, are considered aligned the same as him for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction.

  • immune to polymorphing, petrification, or any other attack that alters his form. Any shape-altering powers the he might have work normally on himself.

  • not subject to energy drain, ability drain, or ability damage.

  • immune to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).

  • DR 10/epic (makes his own natural attacks count as epic)

  • fire resistance 5

  • spell resistance 32

  • naturally immortal and cannot die from natural causes. Does not age, and does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe. The only way for him to die is through special circumstances, usually by being slain in magical or physical combat.



If he'd managed to become a full fledged demigod, he would get a host of extra powers such as domain spells at will, energy immunities, divine bonues to saves/AC, at will teleport, and some more. Among them access to at least two salient divine abilities (one for per DvR and one for being a demigod)

Edited by - Mirtek on 25 Mar 2020 21:24:23
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2402 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2020 :  23:06:05  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's pretty much what I thought, and why I said demigods had obtained official divine status.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

887 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2020 :  17:01:10  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought in 3.5ED Demigods were Divine Rank 0?
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Delnyn
Learned Scribe

USA
193 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2020 :  18:12:15  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

I thought in 3.5ED Demigods were Divine Rank 0?



Demigods are rank 1-5 with salient divine abilities, acid, cold and electricity immunities, portfolio sense, greater teleport at will, at least 3 domains and spell-like abilities for domains. Rank 0 quasi-deities have none of what I just listed.

All this said, I really would not consider give deities stats, at least not in any serious manner. My policy for mortals who insistently want to murderhobo a god boils down to this:

"You lose, No save, no contingency. Your soul is annihilated with no chance for coming back, not even through intervention from a greater god." Any pushback is tantamount to offended player casting the spell Piss Off The Dungeon Master.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

887 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2020 :  02:53:10  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

I thought in 3.5ED Demigods were Divine Rank 0?



Demigods are rank 1-5 with salient divine abilities, acid, cold and electricity immunities, portfolio sense, greater teleport at will, at least 3 domains and spell-like abilities for domains. Rank 0 quasi-deities have none of what I just listed.

All this said, I really would not consider give deities stats, at least not in any serious manner. My policy for mortals who insistently want to murderhobo a god boils down to this:

"You lose, No save, no contingency. Your soul is annihilated with no chance for coming back, not even through intervention from a greater god." Any pushback is tantamount to offended player casting the spell Piss Off The Dungeon Master.



I forgot I had this link. https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm.

You are right and so am I. It all depends on how we play the system. 3.5 had so much potential.
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