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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe

USA
552 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2005 :  17:33:41  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Bane's Homepage  Send Chosen of Bane an AOL message Send Chosen of Bane a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
This was probably answered in the novel itself but I can't seem to remember.

Why didn't one of the several wizards that helped out Shandril just teleport her to Silverymoon instead of making her walk/ride across a large portion of Faerun?

Thente Thunderspells
Seeker

USA
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Posted - 17 Mar 2005 :  18:30:27  Show Profile  Send Thente Thunderspells an AOL message  Click to see Thente Thunderspells's MSN Messenger address  Send Thente Thunderspells a Yahoo! Message Send Thente Thunderspells a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From what I remember it was her choice in the matter. Shandril was out for "adventure" and wanted to "see the Realms" therefore she walked. btw...wasn't she going to Burdusk to train with the Harpers?

The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- Shakespeare
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe

USA
552 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2005 :  18:54:10  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Bane's Homepage  Send Chosen of Bane an AOL message Send Chosen of Bane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I seem to remember she was heading to Silverymoon to live under the protection of the Lady Alustriel and try to learn more about her Spellfire.

I could be wrong though, it's been a while.
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Melfius
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USA
516 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2005 :  01:31:59  Show Profile  Visit Melfius's Homepage  Send Melfius an AOL message Send Melfius a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No, you were correct, Chosen. Shandril was heading to Silverymoon (for about 10 years or so.....) but never quite made it there.

Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages

Edited by - Melfius on 18 Mar 2005 01:32:23
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
31516 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2005 :  03:37:45  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Melfius

Shandril was heading to Silverymoon (for about 10 years or so.....)


It's a very long walk, obviously.

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2005 :  03:46:43  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to admit, I always thought the most sensible thing for one of Shandril's powerful allies to do would be to just teleport her to Silverymoon, especially considering how much danger her life was in.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe

895 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2005 :  04:20:46  Show Profile  Visit Winterfox's Homepage Send Winterfox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

I have to admit, I always thought the most sensible thing for one of Shandril's powerful allies to do would be to just teleport her to Silverymoon, especially considering how much danger her life was in.


I thought the same thing, and I found this to be a massive plot hole. It might be that her powerful allies, like Elminster, want her to experience the world and try to forge her own path, but with all the danger she was in and the destruction in her wake? Wow, impractical much?
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5054 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2005 :  04:54:55  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good point. That’s another of the things that got edited out of the original novel (and Ed’s attempted revision, a second time).
In the original spellfire game rules, users of spellfire (NOT Mystra’s silver fire, which is “of the Weave”) couldn’t use ANY translocation spells: it “burned a hole in the Weave” and destroyed them personally in doing so. They dimension doored or teleported and simply “never arrived.” Anywhere.
In the original draft of SPELLFIRE, there was a scene in the Twisted Tower wherein Elminster and The Simbul explained this VERY seriously to Shandril (who couldn’t yet cast such spells, of course): she must never try to use such magic - - and shouldn’t have spellfire “active” when she went through a gate (3e portal), either.
I wish the world could have seen Ed's original version of SPELLFIRE. It made a LOT more sense than either of the published ones.
THO
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe

895 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2005 :  05:03:54  Show Profile  Visit Winterfox's Homepage Send Winterfox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Good point. That’s another of the things that got edited out of the original novel (and Ed’s attempted revision, a second time).
In the original spellfire game rules, users of spellfire (NOT Mystra’s silver fire, which is “of the Weave”) couldn’t use ANY translocation spells: it “burned a hole in the Weave” and destroyed them personally in doing so. They dimension doored or teleported and simply “never arrived.” Anywhere.
In the original draft of SPELLFIRE, there was a scene in the Twisted Tower wherein Elminster and The Simbul explained this VERY seriously to Shandril (who couldn’t yet cast such spells, of course): she must never try to use such magic - - and shouldn’t have spellfire “active” when she went through a gate (3e portal), either.
I wish the world could have seen Ed's original version of SPELLFIRE. It made a LOT more sense than either of the published ones.
THO



Yeah, that makes a bit more sense. But... does that mean a spellfire-wielder simply can't be teleported -- so no gate, no teleportation spell cast by someone else, no interplanar travels, no nothing? Or that a spellfire-wielder cannot cast a teleportation spell to transport herself elsewhere?
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5054 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2005 :  16:38:39  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, Winterfox, when reading this answer, bear in mind that I only glanced at the “spellfire wielder” class once, didn’t personally think much of it, and it’s not used in our (Ed’s) Realms campaign, so this may or may not ‘mesh’ with it.

However, YES: someone with spellfire can’t be teleported without destroying them (and yes, this does give them a HUGE Achilles heel if spellcasters find this out, although in a ‘real’ Realms, going on character information alone as opposed to what players can learn, there’d actually be scant opportunity for most of them to learn it except by on-the-spot accident). So, no translocation spells without BLAM! (Applies to spells cast by spellfire user AND all other beings.)
Gates (3e portals) work differently (or at least they did under 2e; I actually sat in on a GenCon TSR designers’ discussion about this, years ago): rather than ‘translocating’ people, they ‘step outside the Prime Plane dimension, with its Weave, and then step back inside at a different locale.’ So following this logic, Rope Trick, Portable Hole, and other ‘pocket dimension’ magics also hold no harm for a user of spellfire.

Interestingly, Ed had a Blink spell cause a spellfire user pain (yes, hit point loss, and spellfire visibly raced up and down her limbs, through no intent of her own), but it didn’t kill her.

Experimenting with the limits and specifics of magic is a constant sideline in the orignal Realms campaign: we often ‘learn the hard way’ just what spells can and can’t do, and they don’t always match the written rulebooks (or more often, ‘go beyond’ the too-short written rules).
love,
THO
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2005 :  00:08:36  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, thanks for the information, Hooded One.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5279 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2005 :  04:26:00  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks THO, that really does provide a better understanding of the whys and wherefores of Shandril's journeys - although I'm totally flabbergasted that this was considered 'not important' and edited out of the novel by those all-knowing editor-types.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore

USA
1283 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2005 :  04:53:10  Show Profile  Send SirUrza an AOL message  Send SirUrza an ICQ Message Send SirUrza a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Damn. The more I hear about it, the more I want the original draft of Spellfire.

"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31516 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2005 :  05:14:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Thanks THO, that really does provide a better understanding of the whys and wherefores of Shandril's journeys - although I'm totally flabbergasted that this was considered 'not important' and edited out of the novel by those all-knowing editor-types.

-- George Krashos




Yeah, ditto that!

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
31516 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2005 :  05:19:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza

Damn. The more I hear about it, the more I want the original draft of Spellfire.



Yeah, me too. I've been wanting to read the original since the lovely Lady Hooded One first spoke of how mangled the published version was.

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Winterfox
Senior Scribe

895 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2005 :  06:37:55  Show Profile  Visit Winterfox's Homepage Send Winterfox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
THO: Thank you. I actually didn't mean to inquire after gaming terms (seeing as I don't, well, play pen and paper myself); I was just wondering about the issue in general. It certainly makes me look at spellfire with a less jaundiced eye; after all, that much power ought to have some shortcomings or a price.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5054 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2005 :  15:10:12  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Winterfox, you’re welcome. The “game rules intruding into fiction, and fictional devices doing things ‘impossible or improbable’ in game terms," are problems that have beset D&D fiction from the first (Andre Norton’s QUAG KEEP, in which she included a 3-sided die that Ed promptly, for a joke, ‘invented for real’). George, I THINK this was edited out of Spellfire (when more than a third of it was chopped, just before Mr. Lowder was hired) because it happened to arrive in the hands of TSR’s Book Department as a new regime was establishing itself there, and for whatever reasons starting to follow a self-chosen policy of “the books won’t and shouldn’t follow the game.”
This policy has waxed and waned over the years, because it gives game designers who have to ‘clean up after’ a novel writer who, as Jeff Grubb used to put it, “blows up the moon because he can,” utter fits - - and TSR was, after all, a GAME company at the outset. Of course, the novels have always outsold the games, because roleplaying game players are a smaller group than fiction readers, so Books Department, in their turf battles within the company, had some strength. At the beginnings of the published Realms, TSR was deep in the throes of battling Angry Mothers From Heck (the bad ‘Satanist’ publicity the game was being smeared with), and didn’t want things in the game - - like detailed spell ritual descriptions, even though they didn’t work ‘for real’ - - that real-life kids might get hurt attempting (“My son cast the Fly spell in the books and jumped off the roof and now he’s DEAD!”), which would lead to lawsuits and MORE bad publicity, and so on.
Gates were de-emphasized in the novel for that reason, and so that TSR wouldn’t be harried by gamers whose characters had stepped through a gate, and suddenly wanted a published product on “this blank corner of the Realms over here.”
Ed has said he’ll never be able to reconstruct the original version of SPELLFIRE, so we’ll never get to see it - - but scribes should always remember that it was more than a third longer than what was first published, and that Ed was trying for a “broad palette” tale with several threads of characters (see Julian May’s THE ADVERSARY, last volume of her Pliocene Exile quartet, for exactly what Ed was thinking of doing - - and now, with the books of George Martin and Robert Jordan and Terry Goodkind, not to mention Tolkien, we can clearly see that such storytelling is commercially viable). TSR wanted a SMALL cast of characters, with a focus on a single hero, who fights any number of grunts but only ONE prime mover villain. (I know this to be truth, because Mary Kirchoff said it directly to me, at a GenCon, when I buttonholed her about it after a late-night party.) That Ed managed to get published what he did is a tribute of sorts to his dogged persistence.
Ed and we Knights have long ago agreed that the best way to think of SPELLFIRE is “it was a valuable learning experience.” And why not? It got a LOT of people hooked on the Realms, and has thus far sold something in the neighbourhood of a million copies worldwide, in over two dozen languages, so . . . I guess he did SOMEthing right.
love to all,
THO
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2005 :  00:42:26  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think Ed did something right. :) I found Spellfire to be very hard to put down, and I think of it as the Quintessential Realms Novel. However, I have to agree with many others that it would be nice to read the full, unedited version. It's a shame that the "expanded" edition wasn't really expanded at all, just different.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
852 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2018 :  15:59:14  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Resurrection spell!

Sorry scribes - but I read this and am I missing where Ed wrote in Crown of Fire about teleportation/translocation spells hitting Shandril multiple times to go to and from the CotR from Eveningstar?

Why did no one ask THO about this in the thread? Seems a bit contradictory to the scene cut from Spellfire with Elminster and the Simbul saying teleporting is a no no.
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