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Razz
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Posted - 17 Feb 2018 :  22:28:35  Show Profile  Visit Razz's Homepage  Send Razz an AOL message Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Is there any such deity officially in the Realms? I am surprised there isn't one mentioned, considering how universal drunkenness is.

I look through the list and I can't really find any deity that fits this other than Lliira considering she is goddess of festivals, joy, dancing. Basically a "hard partying" goddess so I figure her patronage over alcohol would make sense.

Sharess is another, considering hedonism and sensual pleasure also could involve alcohol, but Lliira seems to be a better fit.

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 17 Feb 2018 :  23:27:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The universality of it isn't the issue. The cultural importance of it is. Ilsensine once said he was surprised the Realms didn't have a god of "cups and saucers" -- but it's all about how people look at these things.

There's not a human god of mischief, either.

Pathfinder has a mercenary who became a deity on a drunken dare -- but even he isn't about drunkenness. He's about freedom, bravery, ale, and wine. And yes, those latter things can lead to drunkenness -- but he's more about drinking to have a good time.

Lliira would, I think, cover the same thing: alcohol as part of celebrating and having a good time.

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BadCatMan
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Posted - 18 Feb 2018 :  01:34:03  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Saint Dionysus, called the drunken god, patron saint of wine and spirits of the alcoholic kind. :)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Saint_Dionysus
He's a saint of the Church of Ilmater. I imagine the suffering aspect comes largely in the hangover. I play a very merry Monk/Drunken Master of his order.

There's almost certainly also a minor dwarven deity of drunkenness somewhere.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 18 Feb 2018 :  02:37:52  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan


There's almost certainly also a minor dwarven deity of drunkenness somewhere.



I would think not. If you're drunk, you've lost control, and you're not being productive. Neither of these things appeal to dwarven minds, I should think.

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BadCatMan
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Posted - 18 Feb 2018 :  03:19:57  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hanseath, in the core 3.5 book Races of Stone, is a dwarf god of alcohol, carousing, and, as usual, war. His shrines are festhalls, his prayers are drinking songs, his rites are feasts.

And okay, that's specifically alcohol rather than drunkenness, but his priests are inevitably going to be buzzed, tipsy, soused, sloshed, plastered, or some other degree of drunk.

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Gelcur
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Posted - 21 Feb 2018 :  07:30:53  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hanseath has to be one of my favorite new gods in a long long while. He fills a gap that was very much missing in general but also specifically for Dwarves.

We play the god as having been missing and suddenly he has a following again. Not sure if I or my players read this somewhere or we made it up at our table. But we have a fighter Dwarf who dipped a single level of cleric and we always joke that his strong belief in drinking and fighting is what brought back Hanseath. Part of his story at one point revolved around followers of the god finding him and bestowing on him Mithral Battle Plate, which makes the character look like a beer keg and leaves only his beard sticking out. All they asked for in return was he keep doing what he is doing but to mention Hanseath from time to time.

Great fun.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.

Edited by - Gelcur on 21 Feb 2018 07:31:25
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sleyvas
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Posted - 21 Feb 2018 :  13:06:16  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan

Saint Dionysus, called the drunken god, patron saint of wine and spirits of the alcoholic kind. :)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Saint_Dionysus
He's a saint of the Church of Ilmater. I imagine the suffering aspect comes largely in the hangover. I play a very merry Monk/Drunken Master of his order.

There's almost certainly also a minor dwarven deity of drunkenness somewhere.



You know what... given that Ilmater is based on Issek of the Jug... and having never read the Fafhrd & Gray Mouser books, so I'm guessing.... did Issek of the Jug use drink as an aid in order to handle his torturing?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
335 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2018 :  00:53:55  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I haven't read them either, but I came across Issek in Legends & Lore yesterday. One of his symbols is a jug, which he's depicted with. He can pour out any liquid he wishes.

However, from the Fafhrd & Gray Mouser books, it seems the jug is used to pour the "Waters of Peace from the Cistern of Cillivat". So probably not wine.
http://scrollsoflankhmar.com/rpgguide:issek

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George Krashos
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Posted - 22 Feb 2018 :  01:44:57  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm sure that aspects of Llira's portfolio would work and in fact, there might be a heretical element of her church - the Followers of the Flagon - who believe that you can only feel joy if you are in fact drunk or drugged.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sleyvas
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Posted - 22 Feb 2018 :  13:37:19  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan

I haven't read them either, but I came across Issek in Legends & Lore yesterday. One of his symbols is a jug, which he's depicted with. He can pour out any liquid he wishes.

However, from the Fafhrd & Gray Mouser books, it seems the jug is used to pour the "Waters of Peace from the Cistern of Cillivat". So probably not wine.
http://scrollsoflankhmar.com/rpgguide:issek



Gotcha. So Issek is more of a Jesus Christ figure. Interestingly enough though, it seems Issek had many different "aspects"... as there was apparently Issek of the Burnt Legs, Flayed Issek, Issek the armless, and many other "mutilated divinities of the same name". Given that our Ilmater is not specifically associated with being "racked to death" like Issek of the Jug, maybe he might represent "the overarching Issek" divinity.

Hmmmm, from that perspective.....yeah, about to commit some sacrilege.... Tyr and Ilmater.... they lived in the same house... part of the "Triad" together...



Now Issek of the Jug, whom Fafhrd chose to serve, was once
of the most lowly and unsuccessful of the gods, godlets
rather, in Lankhmar. He had dwelt there for about thirteen
years, during which time he had traveled only two squares up
the Street of the Gods and was now back again, ready for
oblivion. He is not to be confused with Issek the Armless,
Issek of the Burnt Legs, Flayed Issek, or any other of the
numerous and colorfully mutilated divinities of that name.
Indeed, his unpopularity may have been due in part to the
fact that the manner of his death -- racking -- was not
deemed particularly spectacular. ... However, after Fafhrd
became his acolyte, things somehow began to change.
[ Swords In The Mist, by Fritz Leiber ]

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Razz
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USA
716 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2018 :  22:49:09  Show Profile  Visit Razz's Homepage  Send Razz an AOL message Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok maybe Drunkenness was the wrong word, but I basically mean something like Dionysus. Alcohol, wine, drunkenness. That kind of portfolio.

Except he's a Saint and not a deity with the portfolio in the Realms. It appears Lliira is the closest due to her "let's party!" aspect.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1464 Posts

Posted - 13 Apr 2018 :  15:10:22  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan

Hanseath, in the core 3.5 book Races of Stone, is a dwarf god of alcohol, carousing, and, as usual, war. His shrines are festhalls, his prayers are drinking songs, his rites are feasts.


Races of Stone is a generic D&D book, not set in the Realms. Another point to remember is that dwarves are highly resistant to toxic substances, and so to some effects of alcohol. Maybe drunkeness would be a state that goes beyond carousing, which would be their preference. And in it I agree with Wooly, about the importance of being productive and under self-control in dwarven society.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

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15675 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2018 :  07:47:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why not an entire pantheon of drunken Gods?

Or rather, various 'gods of alcohol & revelry' from all different pantheons have their own 'club'. Maybe a Finnish deity of Vodka (from Sossal), a good of ale for the dwarves (that hanseath dude), a good of mead from the Hin, We already have St. Dionysius for Wine, but perhaps we can separate wines as well? I can see a god of rice Wine from the Shou pantheon. Etc., etc...

Someone like Jack Sparrow should be the God of Rum.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 15 Apr 2018 :  20:59:55  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-From a certain point of view, you could maybe go with Moander.

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cpthero2
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USA
472 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2018 :  16:16:22  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe Razz,

Azul, of the Maztican pantheon is literally the god of drunkenness.

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Razz

Is there any such deity officially in the Realms? I am surprised there isn't one mentioned, considering how universal drunkenness is.

I look through the list and I can't really find any deity that fits this other than Lliira considering she is goddess of festivals, joy, dancing. Basically a "hard partying" goddess so I figure her patronage over alcohol would make sense.

Sharess is another, considering hedonism and sensual pleasure also could involve alcohol, but Lliira seems to be a better fit.


Robert McDonell
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 10 Oct 2018 :  18:30:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's a Midgard deity that covers beer, too, and she is rather popular among dwarves.

Lose that campaign setting's insistence on being vague and contradictory with their deities (to the point they usually don't list an alignment), and Ninkash would readily fit in with the Morndinsamman.

From page 266 of the Southlands Campaign Setting (the Southlands are the Midgard version of Africa):

quote:

NINKASH
Mother of Beer, Goddess of Merriment, Patron of Brewers and Tavern Keepers, Matron Goddess of the Cantonal Dwarves
Domains: Beer (Midgard Campaign Setting), Charm, Community, Liberation, Strength
Subdomains: Family, Freedom, Home, Love, Resolve
Alignment: Good
Favored Weapon: Mace

Dwarves love ale and consume prodigious amounts of it -- at least by human measures -- and, when they do, they become incoherent, clumsy, or simply fall asleep. The dwarves call this last condition “gone,” short for “gone to visit Ninkash.”

Indeed, the matron mother goddess of ale and merriment was a great gift to the dwarves from the Kariv, who brought their goddess with them to the clan halls and brotherhoods from Nuria to Sebbek Sobor. Ninkash turned brewing and drinking, once the work of Ptah’s stern priests, and sometimes still found in his shrines, into a more frequent and joyful sacrament, though still a serious one. Ninkash embraced the dwarves, and they embraced her.

The public face of Ninkash is a golden-glowing, oversized tankard with a simple handle; it is an ever-full vessel that floats in midair. To her faithful, she appears as a jovial, buxom dwarven woman clad in flowing robes that are nut-brown at one moment and golden the next. Her garments are simple as a tavern maid’s. The goddess appears barefoot, her clothes unbelted and low-cut. Ninkash always smiles. When displeased, her smile is slighter and she shakes her head. When pleased, she beams and extends her arms to sweep all into her bosom.


Interestingly -- and perhaps in support of my earlier musing that drunkenness isn't something dwarves would embrace -- there's this bit, from the Beer Domain, on page 227 of the Midgard Campaign Setting:
quote:
Granted Powers: Ninkash’s sweet nectar invigorates your mind even as it dulls those around you. The secrets of Ninkash’s faith grant you a +2 sacred bonus to Fortitude saves against ingested poisons. Also, Profession: Brewer is now a class skill for you.

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cpthero2
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USA
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Posted - 11 Oct 2018 :  01:07:10  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

Interesting reference. I've never heard of that campaign setting.

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

There's a Midgard deity that covers beer, too, and she is rather popular among dwarves.

Lose that campaign setting's insistence on being vague and contradictory with their deities (to the point they usually don't list an alignment), and Ninkash would readily fit in with the Morndinsamman.

From page 266 of the Southlands Campaign Setting (the Southlands are the Midgard version of Africa):

quote:

NINKASH
Mother of Beer, Goddess of Merriment, Patron of Brewers and Tavern Keepers, Matron Goddess of the Cantonal Dwarves
Domains: Beer (Midgard Campaign Setting), Charm, Community, Liberation, Strength
Subdomains: Family, Freedom, Home, Love, Resolve
Alignment: Good
Favored Weapon: Mace

Dwarves love ale and consume prodigious amounts of it -- at least by human measures -- and, when they do, they become incoherent, clumsy, or simply fall asleep. The dwarves call this last condition “gone,” short for “gone to visit Ninkash.”

Indeed, the matron mother goddess of ale and merriment was a great gift to the dwarves from the Kariv, who brought their goddess with them to the clan halls and brotherhoods from Nuria to Sebbek Sobor. Ninkash turned brewing and drinking, once the work of Ptah’s stern priests, and sometimes still found in his shrines, into a more frequent and joyful sacrament, though still a serious one. Ninkash embraced the dwarves, and they embraced her.

The public face of Ninkash is a golden-glowing, oversized tankard with a simple handle; it is an ever-full vessel that floats in midair. To her faithful, she appears as a jovial, buxom dwarven woman clad in flowing robes that are nut-brown at one moment and golden the next. Her garments are simple as a tavern maid’s. The goddess appears barefoot, her clothes unbelted and low-cut. Ninkash always smiles. When displeased, her smile is slighter and she shakes her head. When pleased, she beams and extends her arms to sweep all into her bosom.


Interestingly -- and perhaps in support of my earlier musing that drunkenness isn't something dwarves would embrace -- there's this bit, from the Beer Domain, on page 227 of the Midgard Campaign Setting:
quote:
Granted Powers: Ninkash’s sweet nectar invigorates your mind even as it dulls those around you. The secrets of Ninkash’s faith grant you a +2 sacred bonus to Fortitude saves against ingested poisons. Also, Profession: Brewer is now a class skill for you.



Robert McDonell
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 11 Oct 2018 :  03:38:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

Interesting reference. I've never heard of that campaign setting.


It's from Kobold Press, and is for Pathfinder and 5E. Instead of the typical Western Europe spin, it draws more from northern and eastern Europe (especially Norse mythology). It's somewhat darker in tone, without being grimdark or horror (horror is not my thing, and I can't stand grimdark).

I've only got three complaints about the Midgard setting:

1) They've decided that not giving a definite alignment to deities, and making it questionable if deity A is related to, opposed to, or actually deity B makes deities more mysterious and therefore more interesting. To me, that makes them more like depersonalized concepts, and since I first saw it in 2E D&D, I've hated the idea of worshipping a concept.

2) The map of the Southlands is way too obviously a slightly modified map of Africa. I don't mind the African inspiration, and I really like the Southlands -- especially Per-Bastet, Nuria Natal, and the nkosi -- but I wish they'd done something else with the map.

3) I love the idea of the white gorillas of the Southlands, but I dislike how they all carry a disease that specifically harms arcane casters.

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cpthero2
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Posted - 11 Oct 2018 :  21:33:46  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

Thank you for the clarification on that. I have heard of the Southlands, but never looked into it. I didn't even realize that it was a part of Midgard.

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

Interesting reference. I've never heard of that campaign setting.


It's from Kobold Press, and is for Pathfinder and 5E. Instead of the typical Western Europe spin, it draws more from northern and eastern Europe (especially Norse mythology). It's somewhat darker in tone, without being grimdark or horror (horror is not my thing, and I can't stand grimdark).

I've only got three complaints about the Midgard setting:

1) They've decided that not giving a definite alignment to deities, and making it questionable if deity A is related to, opposed to, or actually deity B makes deities more mysterious and therefore more interesting. To me, that makes them more like depersonalized concepts, and since I first saw it in 2E D&D, I've hated the idea of worshipping a concept.

2) The map of the Southlands is way too obviously a slightly modified map of Africa. I don't mind the African inspiration, and I really like the Southlands -- especially Per-Bastet, Nuria Natal, and the nkosi -- but I wish they'd done something else with the map.

3) I love the idea of the white gorillas of the Southlands, but I dislike how they all carry a disease that specifically harms arcane casters.



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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