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 Centaurs and mounted feats
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2006 :  16:47:00  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage  Click to see Chosen of Moradin's MSN Messenger address Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Fellow scribes,

IIRC, there is one rule, in one book, concerning about centaurs and the "mounted" feats - if they can benefit from the feats, or no?
Could someone point me to the right direction?

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7509 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2006 :  17:16:42  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
if I had to guess... either savage species or races of faerun

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31591 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2006 :  17:16:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Savage Species, perhaps?

I really can't see why they'd not benefit from mounted feats; they might even have a minor bonus to them, since mounted feats are for someone on a mount (who would have balance issues and such), where centaurs are, in a way, both the mount and the mounted person.

I wouldn't go as far as to extend mounted feats to anyone actually mounted on a centaur, though.

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Kuje
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USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2006 :  17:48:38  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Races of Faerun. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1176 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2006 :  18:50:10  Show Profile  Visit Kaladorm's Homepage Send Kaladorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's a mounted combat tactical feat in complete warrior. I don't think a centaur could effectively execute the manouver where the rider jumps out of the saddle though.
Could be messy :)
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Eremite
Learned Scribe

Singapore
182 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2006 :  03:43:26  Show Profile  Visit Eremite's Homepage Send Eremite a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think it was the introduction of the armanite to 3E in the Book of Vile Darkness that convinced me that a centaur should be treated as having the Mounted Combat feat insofar as he was then eligible for the other feats in the chain. I seem to recall some notation that the armanite (or was it the baatezu equivalent?) was eligible for Ride-by Attack etc... so it seemed like a reasonable precedent for the centaur.

Oh, and centaurs with Ride-by Attack and Spirited Charge are unbelievable damage-dealers!

Best
E
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore

Germany
1720 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2006 :  10:30:25  Show Profile Send Ergdusch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As Kuje already indicated: it is in Races of Faerun on page 132.

Centaur

Racial Feats: None but centaurs can acquire the SPirited Charge and Trample feats (ignoring the prerequisites) and apply the benefits to their own mellee attacks.

"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht."
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2006 :  13:13:15  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage  Click to see Chosen of Moradin's MSN Messenger address Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the kind replies, guys! Yes, itīs the Spirited Charge and Trample that Iīm searching.

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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore

Germany
1720 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2006 :  13:39:00  Show Profile Send Ergdusch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Spirited Charge and Trample are both detailed in the PHB!

"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht."
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe

Canada
956 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2006 :  14:17:25  Show Profile  Visit Kalin Agrivar's Homepage  Click to see Kalin Agrivar's MSN Messenger address Send Kalin Agrivar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch

Spirited Charge and Trample are both detailed in the PHB!



in one of the Monster manuals there is also the greater charge feat, and the Miniatures has improved greater charge too..

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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2006 :  16:53:20  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage  Click to see Chosen of Moradin's MSN Messenger address Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeap. But in the "brazilian portuguese" PHB, Spirited Charge was translated as "Mounted Charge", and Trample as... ass... man, I donīt know even the correct term.

Yes, we suffer some problems with the translations, here.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31591 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2018 :  02:10:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Doing my own thread necromancy, here, with an old pondering I just stumbled across...

When centaurs go into battle, are they cavalry or infantry?

They've got the speed, reach, weight, and all that, like cavalry... But they are not mounted, and they are getting into battle under their own power, on foot -- like infantry.

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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1743 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2018 :  02:20:30  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

When centaurs go into battle, are they cavalry or infantry?

The force type designation is functional (see also "mounted infantry" and XX century updates with mechanized forces), and they would act as cavalry.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
31591 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2018 :  04:51:53  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, but the function is directly related to how they get into combat -- infantry can't fill the same role as cavalry, because they're humping it on foot and carrying all their gear, as opposed to riding into battle with something that has weight, mass, speed, and carrying capacity.

And centaurs blur that line. Like infantry, they're on foot and carrying all their gear. They can certainly effect a more fearsome charge, but they're still just dudes on foot.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7509 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2018 :  16:08:37  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd still call them effectively cavalry. Ironically, I also wouldn't be surprised to find centaurs that actually use pack horses for carrying their gear for them. After all, knights were known to do the same thing, having the warhorse that they rode and a pack horse to carry things for them. You also have to take into account that riding a horse is not like riding in a car. The mounted warrior is not relaxing entirely (and if not working properly with the animal can become saddle sore). Hell, centaurs may actually have "squires" that are young centaurs that don't go into battle, and these young centaurs jobs may be to carry the heavy gear.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31591 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2018 :  17:42:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My point was that saying that the designation is functional ignores the fact that centaurs are not humans. A human going into combat can do it on foot, or he can mount up.

A centaur does not have that option -- they can't mount up. So unlike humans, they don't have a choice for the role that they fulfill.

Like infantry, a centaur is on foot, and everything they will use in combat is upon their person.

However, they are like cavalry in that they can carry a lot more into battle, they get there quicker, and there's a lot more mass behind their charge.

Of course, human cavalry has something centaurs don't -- the mount itself can be an independent combatant. And cutting the legs out from under a cavlaryman's mount gives you a foe who can fight but who is hampered by no longer having a mount to aid his combat -- cutting the legs out from under a centaur neutralizes that combatant.

Centaurs are therefore a mix of the two -- they're not quite the same as a mounted human cavalry, though they have some of the advantages, but they still share characteristics with PBI.

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Kentinal
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4352 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2018 :  18:00:17  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As far as battle goes I would go with cavalry as a designation. Maybe a modifier or two need to be added. The mounted human is a team with two brains so slightly more versatile in combat actions. However the horse only knows a few combat actions or tricks that it would use on its own. The rider gives most of the commands the horse act on and does.

The centaurs have all the tricks that a horse would have. The commands to kick, turn etc. do not need to be singled to a mount. The centaurs are their own mount.

The centaurs do not were a saddle or some of the other equipment that a human needs to ride a mount. The carrying capacity is the same. So the centaurs need to carry less than a horse does. Generally I would expect that centaurs would carry fewer weapons as well. I do not see centaurs carrying a lance into battle for example.

There is the down side of body being at the fount as opposed to a human in the middle of a mount.

Yes there are differences, however at least mass combat clearly would say cavalry. Just might consider a modifier rating centaur cavalry slightly less effective than human and horse cavalry.

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