Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 interacting with drow and duergar
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Carter7Gindenv
Acolyte

Switzerland
8 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2018 :  12:13:34  Show Profile Send Carter7Gindenv a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello, a quick question about drow and duergar.
Can you interact with them in "peace"?
When I read their lore it's always about how they hate pretty much everybody and want to wage war with them. But on the other side, playing badlur's gate, icewind dale and neverwinter showed me that you can sometimes just "visit" their town. I know they do commerce but I really don't understand what makes a foreigner a "visitor" or an enemy

For example : is it possible for a party of adventurer to just pass through their town to reach the surface? (with fee to pay or anything else of course)

Another question i'm asking myself is ; how does someone end up enslaved in faerun? I mean, if drow enslaves human, what makes some human "slave potential" and other not?

(I don't have the books. I get what I know of the lore from reading online and from the videogame.)

Thanks and have a nice day!

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4117 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2018 :  12:26:12  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
4e and 5e take on the evil races are that they are evil to the core with no redeeming features, moreover they are not just evil but homicidal evil and are to be exterminated by the players on sight.

I personally prefer to think of all the intelligent races as people. The drow and fuirgar are a severe people because of their harsh environment where only the strong survive, this severity is exacerbated by the evil society they often live in.

I guess you could take the 4e approach and just have every encounter as a combat, or you could think about the people involved. Are they an armed patrol, if yes then would they seem themselves stronger than the pcs, if yes then combat is likely (although not suicidal combat). Are they travelling merchants, do they have armed guards, do the pcs look wealthy and weaker than them, if so then combat.

Basically a drow and duergar will opportunistically on anyone with valuables that are weaker than themselves. If they are just weaker and not valuable then they might attack them anyway. The goal may not be to kill as both groups like slaves.

Trade is possible the party look strong, that could be a trade of items or valuables. It is also possible that in extremely dangerous areas the two groups might camp together for protection.

Remember though that they are evil and opportunistic. Betrayal is likely at any time if they feel they have an advantage or find out about hidden wealth. Sleeping will be dangerous around them, as will encountering other monsters, and the drow and duergar may always send for reinforcements to take on super juicy targets.

I treat every intelligent being as a person with their own wants and motives. Makes it more realistic.

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Carter7Gindenv
Acolyte

Switzerland
8 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2018 :  12:34:35  Show Profile Send Carter7Gindenv a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, I too prefer the idea that they are just not "evil who want to destroy". Politics and relationship can quickly become really complex in the forgotten realms...
Go to Top of Page

dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4117 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2018 :  12:39:36  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Insanely so. Drow interact with Thay presumably for slaves. There is a similar interaction between the zhentarim and drow around the moonsea and heartlands. Although that's pre 4e I know nothing afteethat

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2983 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2018 :  14:32:28  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
5e take on evil races is not that they are innately evil with no redeeming qualities. The drow aren't innately evil, nor are the duergar. Heck: even the orcs have been recently been explicitly stated by Mearls to not be unredeemable.

With that out of the way, what dazzlerdal said is pretty much it. If you want to cross a Lolthite drow settlement, unless you happen onto something the so-called "Open Days" in Menzo, be prepared to be seen as a potential target (even though trade might also be an option, depending on the situation). Then again, it depends on what the characters can do. For example, if they struck a deal with one of the trading companies in the city, they could get a pass. I guess that there are various ways to come across them, since they have caravans traveling in the Underdark, or perhaps even in certain outposts like Mentol Derith (settlements like that would also look much more favorably on travelers, merchants, mercenaries, etc...). In the end, remember that while nobles, warriors, priestesses and the likes are fanatic to the core, merchants and commoners are much more... chill (even if still paranoid and generally not to be trusted).

Followers of other drow deities often live in secret within Lolthite cities. Maybe the characters could seek a deal with the followers of Vhaeraun outside a given city, in exchange of being smuggled through said city. Followers of Eilistraee have a network of portals, some of which can be found in drow cities (like a portal in Menzo), so if the characters can find a way to contact them, and they have a way of helping, an agreement could be reached. Keep in mind that followers of deities that aren't Lolth already take huge risks by living in a Lolthite city, so they would try to avoid unneeded attention, and smuggling characters could bring unwanted ones.

Cities like Sshamath are not ruled by Lolth's priesthood, though: the drow living there usually follow a wider variety of gods (Vhaeraun, Eilistraee, Shar, even some of the Seldarine), and surfacers can actually live there.

I think that FR slavers would seek the same qualities that IRL slavers did. For example, a healthy person would be preferred over, and sold for a higher price than, a sickly one. Strongly built people would be sought out for manual labor. Ofc, slavers are far less likely to attack fully armed adventurers, they probably favor weaker targets.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 09 Sep 2018 14:40:55
Go to Top of Page

Harvest
Acolyte

9 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2018 :  22:55:22  Show Profile Send Harvest a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My take on evil races is you can deal with them as long as they don't think they can just kill you and take what they want. I mean unless they're a demon or something they aren't going to throw their lives away fighting a high level party prepared for whatever tricks they have. At least, not without reason.
Go to Top of Page

bloodtide_the_red
Seeker

USA
58 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2018 :  23:45:17  Show Profile  Visit bloodtide_the_red's Homepage Send bloodtide_the_red a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It is very possible for any race to interact with drow and duergar in peace. Though, as drow and duergar are mostly evil, it does help a lot if the others interacting with them are evil too. Or at least if you are neutral.


Drow and Duergar trade just like any race, so they often give merchants a 'free pass' no matter what. They might still hate the merchant, but they will happily buy their stuff. If you have some sort of value...then your not an ''enemy'', at least for right now.

Any town of any race is made up of lots of normal folks...so they won't do much to stop folks from walking through town. Some folks in town might react, but it does depend.

Really, it's not different then anywhere else in the Realms. The average elf or dwarf town won't be overly friendly to some passing humans, but they won't be hostile. The typical Western gets it just about right where the towns folk are like ''we don't like strangers around here" and "you can stay the night, but best be moving on by morning."

In general, a slave is just a person at the wrong place at the wrong time. Often a raid will be made for slaves...and if you get caught, then congratulations, you are a slave. Wars often produces slaves of the losers. And a lot of people are born as slaves. But the common way to become a slave is through due process of law. A person gets convicted of a crime, and sold into slavery. It's the ''ultimate punishment''.
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7433 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2018 :  12:57:21  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What makes a person a viable slave? The inability to defend themselves while being ONLY valuable for
A) sex
B) housework
C) yardwork
D) potentially lethal minework

If one appears capable of defending oneself (whether its true or not), OR if someone proves to be valuable beyond the above in some form (potential spy on the surface? Trader? Slaver? Some other kind of "information broker"/sage whom its best to allow to free roam and be useful when you need them? Spellcaster willing to perform magical work for money?)

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1728 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2018 :  17:23:32  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Carter7Gindenv

Hello, a quick question about drow and duergar.
Can you interact with them in "peace"?
When I read their lore it's always about how they hate pretty much everybody and want to wage war with them.[...] I know they do commerce but I really don't understand what makes a foreigner a "visitor" or an enemy

Having a legitimate reason. Not looking like an enemy. The drow obviously don't like surface elves, and usually dwarves and gnomes (assumed to be a breed or pal of the svirfneblin), but this depends on local politics; same for duergar, only with elves and dwarves swapped.
quote:
For example : is it possible for a party of adventurer to just pass through their town to reach the surface? (with fee to pay or anything else of course)

Depends on the town, adventurers and what they say when told to state their business there.
If they work for a merchant and they want to buy some samples of Underdark goods and ask what sells there, while scouting the road? They may pull it.
If they look shifty, they'll get categorized as "probably enemy spies", and, well...
In places that are less civilized (Llurth Dreier) or currently in the state of heightened paranoia (e.g. at war) this may not matter.
Conversely, in Sshamath they probably won't have any problems. At least if the group won't include a surface elf (half-elves are okay) and won't let a dwarf or halfling sneak around without being accompanied by a more magical creature.
Unless they do something stupid - but this applies anywhere.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
Go to Top of Page

Carter7Gindenv
Acolyte

Switzerland
8 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2018 :  20:04:12  Show Profile Send Carter7Gindenv a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks a lot for all your responses! It's way more clear now.
I think it's a problem caused by the videogames where mostly what you encounter out of the "civilized human town" will want to kill you on sight for the purpose to give you more action.
Because no one would attack on sight a guy alone in the underdark, unarmed, wearing a colorful mage robe. Better be friendly than getting blasted ;)
Go to Top of Page

Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
210 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2018 :  15:32:49  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My take on it, is most cities got some sort of "foreign quarter" open to business, in order for Duergar to brew proper beer of barley, buy some food, wood, etc.
I have thought about recycling systems akin to roman north Africa, but decided Dwarves or Drow don't want toilets connected to someplace who might lead Ochre Jellies visiting their bathrooms. The idea is poo->microbes and fungus->rothe->Beef. So, imho all cities need proper trade.

Edited by - Starshade on 12 Sep 2018 15:40:49
Go to Top of Page

TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1728 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  03:11:54  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Starshade

but decided Dwarves or Drow don't want toilets connected to someplace who might lead Ochre Jellies visiting their bathrooms.

That's why you use gelatinous cubes or puddings instead - they can't squeeze through narrow grates. And/or put a nest of burburs in the sewers, so that oozes protect them from predators on the wild Underdark side, but are culled on the town side.
And make the pipes dump from ceiling and give the nearby walls and ceiling treatment that repels ooze or prevents climbing (which is a good idea anyway, as it stops other vermin too).
Or better block their passage with wards. And keep a bunch of otyughs around there for good measure, in case servants of That Which Lurk get any funny ideas.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7433 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  12:46:09  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All we need now is an ooze known for possessing folks by climbing into their hiny….

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31516 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  17:28:38  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

All we need now is an ooze known for possessing folks by climbing into their hiny….



Ye gods, let's not encourage anyone to create that, please!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

TheIriaeban
Seeker

USA
39 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2018 :  22:53:30  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

All we need now is an ooze known for possessing folks by climbing into their hiny….



Ye gods, let's not encourage anyone to create that, please!



Ah, yes, the infamous Sock Puppet Ooze. There is also one that makes the person grow a fine fur on their skin. Those are known as Muppet Ooozes.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
Go to Top of Page

Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
210 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2018 :  23:08:27  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

All we need now is an ooze known for possessing folks by climbing into their hiny….



The sentient Ghaunadan oozes would be my best guess.
Go to Top of Page

BenN
Senior Scribe

Japan
354 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2018 :  00:44:53  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The so-called risk of an ooze slithering up your rear end is just a problem of marketing. Call it a 'cleanse', and your new customers will come running!
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2018 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000