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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
35541 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2018 :  02:40:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So I've never been all that big a fan of the Moonshaes, but even so, this seems promising.

Moonshae Isles Regional Guide

quote:
Return to Where the Forgotten Realms Began!

Discover the mythic Moonshae Isles, the first published region of the Forgotten Realms. Now you can walk in the footsteps of Tristan and Robyn, sail the straits in dragon-head longships, look deep into the moonwells of the Earthmother, and feel the fury of Kazgoroth the Beast!

The Moonshaes Regional Guide is intended for use with Moonshae adventures published by Baldman Games for the Adventurers League. However, this guide can be used for Forgotten Realms games separate from the Adventures League or even for Celtic-inspired fantasy games outside the Realms!

This product includes:

  • Foreword by Douglas Niles, creator of the Moonshaes

  • An overview of the history, cultures, powers, and deities of the Moonshaes

  • A tour of the many islands of the Moonshaes

  • New player options including names, trinkets, and seven new backgrounds

  • New player organizations for your characters to join

  • Map of the Moonshaes by expert cartographer Mike Schley

  • Themed adventure logsheet for BMG’s Moonshae adventures



A Mike Schley map, a nod from Douglas Niles, and I know that at least one of the authors has some published Realmslore to his name... I'll be buying this, momentarily.

(Okay, yes, we can quibble over whether or not Douglas Niles created the Moonshaes... He is the author of the version we're familiar with, so I'm letting it slide, myself.)

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Brimstone
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3230 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2018 :  04:51:39  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Wooly!! Just bought a copy. It even comes with a Printable Version.

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe

444 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2021 :  22:00:43  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been browsing this book on and off and I noticed something odd, page 18 states that the Moonshae Isles are made up of mostly limestone.

I would imagine the islands would be mostly igneous rocks, likely granite, several references to granite in official sources. Obviously this source isn't "official" but I've seen people refer to it as a good resource. Anyone know if this is an error or is there an actual basis to this?

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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sleyvas
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USA
10836 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2021 :  23:45:47  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur

I've been browsing this book on and off and I noticed something odd, page 18 states that the Moonshae Isles are made up of mostly limestone.

I would imagine the islands would be mostly igneous rocks, likely granite, several references to granite in official sources. Obviously this source isn't "official" but I've seen people refer to it as a good resource. Anyone know if this is an error or is there an actual basis to this?



Not that I think that this is "correct", but bear this in mind.. we think of all those islands as forming the way they do in OUR world (i.e. volcanic eruption forms the island).... but another more FR look at the world could easily be that these islands were part of the interior of Merrobouros that suddenly found itself as an island when the elven sundering split the world up.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 17 Oct 2021 23:47:29
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1178 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2021 :  23:30:01  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I misread this as Moonsea for a few seconds and got all excited. I really don't care for the Doug Niles creation shoe-horned into Ed's Realms at all...but, this does sound good for its many fans!
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe

444 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2021 :  19:32:17  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur

I've been browsing this book on and off and I noticed something odd, page 18 states that the Moonshae Isles are made up of mostly limestone.

I would imagine the islands would be mostly igneous rocks, likely granite, several references to granite in official sources. Obviously this source isn't "official" but I've seen people refer to it as a good resource. Anyone know if this is an error or is there an actual basis to this?



Not that I think that this is "correct", but bear this in mind.. we think of all those islands as forming the way they do in OUR world (i.e. volcanic eruption forms the island).... but another more FR look at the world could easily be that these islands were part of the interior of Merrobouros that suddenly found itself as an island when the elven sundering split the world up.


I'm going to favor the original source TSR 9217 FR2 Moonshae topography mentions granite cliffs made from bedrock. The other mentions of granite seem to actually call it out as a building material and is specified as white.

I was thinking of a hybrid our world + magic, a drifting portal to the Para-Elemental Plane of Magma. I have always liked the idea that the stars in the Realms being portals to the Para-Elemental Plane of Radiance. And have been trying to come up with more ways to leverage things like it.


quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

I misread this as Moonsea for a few seconds and got all excited. I really don't care for the Doug Niles creation shoe-horned into Ed's Realms at all...but, this does sound good for its many fans!


I'll be honest I'm not the biggest fan of the Moonshae's either but I respect that people do like it. Then again I'm also not a huge fan of the Moonsea.

Honestly, I like to try to make everything "official" fit while pushing things more towards how Ed would have liked them, or more Realms-y if there is no info from Ed. I think Moonshae's has the potential to be pushed that way. And some later editions actually did just that.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10836 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2021 :  20:37:24  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur

I've been browsing this book on and off and I noticed something odd, page 18 states that the Moonshae Isles are made up of mostly limestone.

I would imagine the islands would be mostly igneous rocks, likely granite, several references to granite in official sources. Obviously this source isn't "official" but I've seen people refer to it as a good resource. Anyone know if this is an error or is there an actual basis to this?



Not that I think that this is "correct", but bear this in mind.. we think of all those islands as forming the way they do in OUR world (i.e. volcanic eruption forms the island).... but another more FR look at the world could easily be that these islands were part of the interior of Merrobouros that suddenly found itself as an island when the elven sundering split the world up.


I'm going to favor the original source TSR 9217 FR2 Moonshae topography mentions granite cliffs made from bedrock. The other mentions of granite seem to actually call it out as a building material and is specified as white.

I was thinking of a hybrid our world + magic, a drifting portal to the Para-Elemental Plane of Magma. I have always liked the idea that the stars in the Realms being portals to the Para-Elemental Plane of Radiance. And have been trying to come up with more ways to leverage things like it.




I'm like you in that respect.... I like to hear fantastical reasons for why certain things may be the way they are. For instance, I know a lot of sages want to go in the other direction, but I like the idea of the Aearee coming TO Toril from Coliar (and possibly piloting "earth islands" through realmspace like dwarves with their flying mountains, cloud giants with their castles, and Netherese archwizards).

Kind of as an aside, one thing that I just thought about regarding earth islands .... which are just earthmotes.... why does Abeir have them and Toril not? We have it that Ao supposedly twinned the worlds to protect them from the dawn titans/primordials. What if on the Abeir side, the primordials stopped the pieces of the moon from crashing down, and thus were created "earthmotes" on Abeir? Not sure what to do with the concept, but it came to mind, so hurling it out.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
5798 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2021 :  21:10:08  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nah, earthmotes are prevented by the weave because it dampens down the effect of raw magic.

In the distant past before the weave concentrations of raw magic could do weird and unpredictable things. In fact any attempt to manipulate magic had a chance to go wrong and rewrite the laws of reality.

That's my explanation for why Toril is so earth like anyway. The weave keeps magic safe, controlled, and predictable.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
35541 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2021 :  21:49:07  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas


Kind of as an aside, one thing that I just thought about regarding earth islands .... which are just earthmotes.... why does Abeir have them and Toril not? We have it that Ao supposedly twinned the worlds to protect them from the dawn titans/primordials. What if on the Abeir side, the primordials stopped the pieces of the moon from crashing down, and thus were created "earthmotes" on Abeir? Not sure what to do with the concept, but it came to mind, so hurling it out.



I think Toril did have earthmotes, prior to the Spellplague -- but most of them were either no longer airborne, or were in isolated odd spots, or were thought to be something else.

You've got the Floating Mountain, in the Silver Marches area, occupied by Valamaradace and Deszeldaryndun Silverwing; the Temple in the Sky in the Dales; the Sleeping Dragon in the Evermoors... Sure, none of them are explicitly called earthmotes, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

So why so rare in Faerūn? Maybe the conditions that cause them to form require some seriously out of the way/inaccessible locales. Or maybe they're not from Faerūn, but instead from some currently undescribed place, elsewhere on the planet, and the examples I named were somehow moved to Faerūn...

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe

444 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2021 :  23:55:00  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are we sure they came from Abeir? Quick look up on the wiki states they were a result of the wild magic from the Spellplague, and that they were more of them in areas that exchanged land masses. If so their rarity would be based on the already rare wild magic areas. Then when magic was put right again they stopped existing there.

Interesting idea, what if the land exchanges happened in areas where the Weave was already weak? So you had the original Sundering magic coming undone in magic weak areas. It never fully was dispelled, then the second Sundering was just sort of re-upping the old spell. Could even be associated with areas where worship of Mystra wasn't as strong. Just spit balling.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10836 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2021 :  13:35:14  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
good points Wooly, and we were already noting them as cloud giants already had their flying castles in some things, etc...

Gelcur, on the idea of the transfers happening where the weave was weak.... another way to phrase that might be "in areas where the shadow weave was growing stronger". We have no data to support that point, other than the shadowstone novel possibly indicating a strengthening to the powers of shadow that I know of, but it could possibly be turned into a plot point of sorts to explain away Shar's loss of control of the shadow weave. Might need some work, but its an interesting idea.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
5798 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2021 :  14:02:04  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Weave required Weave Anchors to extend its power and area of effect, why should the Shadow Weave not require the same thing, both could be constructs by rival sects of the Baetith far in the distant past.

I have a brief idea at the moment regarding a secret war between Weave and Shadow Weave users over the various Weave Anchors (and far fewer Shadow Weave Anchors) as they each try to usurp control over their rivals while securing their own.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 23 Oct 2021 :  15:21:44  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

The Weave required Weave Anchors to extend its power and area of effect, why should the Shadow Weave not require the same thing, both could be constructs by rival sects of the Baetith far in the distant past.

I have a brief idea at the moment regarding a secret war between Weave and Shadow Weave users over the various Weave Anchors (and far fewer Shadow Weave Anchors) as they each try to usurp control over their rivals while securing their own.



That wasn't at all what Weave Anchors did. Weave Anchors were a backup system, to keep the Weave up and running if Mystra was out of the picture.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 23 Oct 2021 :  16:36:38  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well thats where you and i disagree.

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 23 Oct 2021 :  18:18:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Well thats where you and i disagree.



No, that's where you and Ed Greenwood disagree. Since he created the Realms, and Weave Anchors, I'm going to go with what he himself said. Emphasis mine:

quote:
Ao commanded Mystra to vest some of her divine essence (the silver fire) into mortals, in part to lessen her power, which in magic-rich Toril far outstripped the other gods. She did so, but had the foresight to anchor the Weave in these mortals, as well as in more static natural concentrations of magic (such as the Athora) to keep the Weave (herself) from collapsing if anything happened to her. (This is also something Ao expected and wanted her to do; it isn’t just insurance for Mystra, it increases stability for the world.)


You wanna tell everyone that Ed is wrong about something he wrote, that's on you. Don't expect to convince many people, though.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 23 Oct 2021 18:18:46
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 23 Oct 2021 :  18:35:12  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, but the answer you receive very much depends upon the question. Ask about Anchorage extending the influence of the weave and why the nether scrolls are no longer weave anchors and the story behind azuth and mystra reconnecting the weave (and how) and you may well find the answer is somewhat different.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 23 Oct 2021 :  18:46:55  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Ah, but the answer you receive very much depends upon the question. Ask about Anchorage extending the influence of the weave and why the nether scrolls are no longer weave anchors and the story behind azuth and mystra reconnecting the weave (and how) and you may well find the answer is somewhat different.



Fine, you go ask that question, and if he backs you up, then I'll concede the point. Until then, though, I'm going with what the creator of the setting explicitly stated, and not your unsupported interpretation.

I'm also eager to know why it's necessary to "extend" something that already covers the entire world.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1823 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2021 :  07:06:35  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm going to snag this one. For me, at least, the Moonshaes were always one of my favorite areas of the Realms. That may have something to do with it being my first introduction to the Realms (certain articles in Dragon Magazine not withstanding).

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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sleyvas
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10836 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2021 :  18:45:33  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, based on his tweets, I get the idea that Ed really doesn't like the version of the Moonshaes that came to FR (and maybe I'm misreading that), but honestly I like the idea of the place. That being said, I can honestly say I've never run a campaign there, I've never made an NPC from there that sticks out in my memory.... but I can say that for a lot of regions of Faerun, so it's not all that unusual.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gelcur
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Posted - 04 Nov 2021 :  04:44:48  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would really like to learn more about Ed's version of the Moonshaes to try to reconcile it with the published material. I found this link. Is could anyone point me to more information that may have spilled over the years from Ed?

I wonder if the southern part of the Moonshaes can be left alone and use Korinn Archipelago more like how Ed envisioned the region. It seems the Treasure Hunt module has the most "detailed" information on that area, I ran it a few years back and its all very vague and inconsequential. I know Ed mentioned Salt Mines in Elminster's Forgotten Realms, he mentioned lost temples and Aboleths in a Twitter post. And Lost Empires mentions a fallen Netherese city might be in that archipelago.

The more I research the region the more ties there could be to quasi and para elemental planes. Which makes me wonder if the Earthmother isn't some how tied to the Inner Planes, I'm not up on primal spirits or primordials.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
787 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2021 :  20:10:07  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed's version of the Moonshae's was vastly different. More like and I think inspired by Le Guin's Earthsea IIRC.
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe

444 Posts

Posted - 05 Nov 2021 :  03:46:22  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur

I would really like to learn more about Ed's version of the Moonshaes to try to reconcile it with the published material. I found this link. Is could anyone point me to more information that may have spilled over the years from Ed?

The link above leads to a page where Jeff Grubb tells us the Origin of the Moonshae Isles. And also has Ed's addendum:
quote:
Originally posted by Ed

The 'original' Moonshaes are akin to LeGuin's Earthsea: hundreds of little islands, long-extinct volcanic peaks that rise up out of the sea abruptly, are inhabited by fisherfolk (with a few larger islands that have forests, farms, etc.) nothing much above the rural village culture on most, with self-styled 'lords' on others...and like Earthsea, somewhat like the Celtic-era Hebrides...they occupy the same space as TSR's (Doug Niles's) Moonshaes, arcing from a 'wide spray' at the Sword Coast or eastward extent, curving and narrowing southwest and curving to south...in other words, a large area of 'perilous sea' with awash rocks, reefs, etc. and safe channels that only the locals know.


I'm just curious if that is all we have?

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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