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Quickleaf
Seeker
99 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jan 2021 : 18:58:13
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I know that Candlekeep skews away from 5e, but I had a question which the sages of ENWorld didn't seem to know, so I thought I'd ask here...
Quick question for ye loremasters of Candlekeep: Would a daemonfey (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Daemonfey) from FR lore pretty much be a cambion in 5e terms? Would the cambion stat block from 5e (https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/cambion) model such a creature sufficiently?
If you want to tackle the fey'ri, I'd be interested in them too!
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Edited by - Quickleaf on 04 Jan 2021 19:00:39
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2021 : 19:11:22
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If I remember correctly...
The first generation offspring of an elf and a demon is a cambion. Their offspring (second generation) are fey'ri. Collectively, both the elf/demon cambions and fey'ri are referred to as Daemonfey. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2021 : 22:51:05
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Daemonfey and Fey'ri were much described and much discussed but were never given exact definitions.
Some are what older lore called "cambions" with more or less half fiend blood. With a fiendish parent.
Some are what older lore called "tieflings" with diluted fiend blood. With a fiendish ancestry.
(Not like 4E-style tieflings, more like what 3E sometimes called a "planetouched" or "fiendtouched" individual.)
But the game lore for daemonfey was always sparse in the really important details. While the novel lore deliberately avoided describing anything in game terms. And things were much complicated when later lore (which changed cambions and tieflings yet continued to feature daemonfey) just lumped devils and demons and daemons into a generic evil category of "fiends".
A few specific daemonfey are described as being sired by devils (baatezu).
But for the most part they seem to resemble and behave more like demons (tanar'ri). Their appearances and characteristics are a little too variable to be sired from a nicely predictable devil bloodline. And they seem to retain their elven Chaotic alignment preferences. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 04 Jan 2021 22:54:28 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2021 : 00:03:53
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The only thing I can add to this is that a Cambion is a very powerful demon. While it may have a non-demon parent; it is all demon.
Such things as a Cambion are what Iuz actually was before becoming a demi-god. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Quickleaf
Seeker
99 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2021 : 00:53:19
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Thanks Ayrik! Yes, I was wondering if it was just my thin knowledge of FR lore or if the daemonfey were being treated in broad strokes.
I've read the sections on them in AD&D's Cloak and Dagger, Lords of Darkness, and vague bits I recall from Hellgate Keep... as well as the article in 4e's DUNGEON #208 which.
But the 3e stuff and the novels featuring them I really know nothing about, except for Fayne - the fey'ri from the Brimstone Angels who seemed all over the map. For instance, I had no idea the term "daemonfey" was used to apply to elves with devil bloodlines as well. |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2021 : 03:18:05
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| Remember to use Mortenkainen's Tome of Foes to get some reccomendations on specific demon-oriented cambions. Mix fey ancestry features in with any demon you'd like. Don't forget to roll random demon features in Tome of Foes as well. There are also a few great Fey'ri templates on the forum from older editions. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
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T_P_T |
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Quickleaf
Seeker
99 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2021 : 04:45:51
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Totally, MToF is a good resource, thanks PattPlays!
So I know that besides House Dlardrageth there were a host of lesser sun elf houses (Reithel, Ilviiri, Ursequarra, Floshin, Yesve, Aelorathi, Dhaorothi, Ulvaerren, Almyrrtel, and Ealoeth), but could one of these – or some other named group of fey'ri/daemonfey – have absconded into the Abyss itself?
Asking as far as official lore bit are concerned. I'm working up an adventure that involves the Abyss, Graz'zt, and some daemonfey, hence why I ask. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2021 : 05:17:01
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| Given that a lot of fey'ri have shape-changing abilities, I personally think it quite likely that at least a few fey'ri slipped through the cracks, back in the day... I also think it's not entirely impossible that later elves might not have tried the same thing, and resulted in fey'ri not associated with House Dlardrageth. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Quickleaf
Seeker
99 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2021 : 05:43:28
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| Thanks Wooly, yeah I was thinking along the same lines. Are there any official sources of fey'ri/daemonfey names, or house names, that could fit for a house which absconded into the Abyss? I know I can make it up, but trying to be as close to the established lore as possible. Maybe in one of the novels? |
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Quickleaf
Seeker
99 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2021 : 17:57:42
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Trying something out, based on everything I've read so far... If any of you sages and lorekeepers notice a mistake (e.g. using Ulvaerren as the daemonfey house that withdrew to the Abyss) or an omission (e.g. a power evidenced by a daemonfey NPC in a novel or book), please let me know. My knowledge of the FR is like a little fire, and yours is like a big raging fire.
Daemonfey
Descending from sun elf houses that consorted with demons and succubi, the daemonfey were hunted down by elvenkind until only House Dlardrageth and its vassal houses remained in Faerűn. However, House Ulvaerren## fled to the Abyss where Graz’zt welcomed them with open arms, though at the cost of sacrificing their ability to plane shift. A daemonfey cambion or tiefling has the following changes:
• Fey Ancestry. The cambion is considered an elf for purposes of all effects related to race. It has advantage on saving throws against being charmed, and can’t be put to sleep by magic.
• It know either the friends or minor illusion cantrip.
• It can speak, read, and write Elven.
Many daemonfey possess unique powers. You may replace a cambion’s fly speed and Fire Ray with one of these options:
• Dark Call. When a creature fails its save against the daemonfey’s command to “approach”, each allied creature within 5 feet of it must make a saving throw against the command to “approach" as well.
• Eyes of the Arcane. When the daemonfey casts detect magic, it learns the name of any spell on a creature it sees and if the creature can cast spells.
• Skin Dance. When the daemonfey casts alter self it may appear as a specific humanoid it can see within 60 feet. Additionally, that humanoid must succeed a DC 14 Charisma saving throw or it is teleported, swapping places with the daemonfey. A DC 14 Intelligence (Investigation) check made as an action reveals which is the daemonfey. |
Edited by - Quickleaf on 05 Jan 2021 18:51:27 |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2021 : 22:30:43
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| As noted, the original scions of the Daemonfay were all pretty much unique half-fiends. Cambion is a fine starting point for 5E (although that's more Khanyr Vhok). The fey'ri might be better as succubi/incubi in 5E parlance. That said, both really warrant their own monster write ups. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2021 : 22:34:08
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| As noted, the original scions of the Daemonfay were all pretty much unique half-demon, half-sun elves or half-fiend high elves. Cambion is a fine starting point for 5E (and your ideas are good Quickleaf). The fey'ri might be better as succubi/incubi in 5E parlance. That said, both really warrant their own monster write ups. Check out Lords of Darkness and Races of Faerun for a good baseline in 3E and Hellgate Keep for 2E uniqueness of the original leadership. |
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Quickleaf
Seeker
99 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2021 : 03:31:45
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Ah, thank you Tom! My ideas were derived from a 4e DUNGEON #208 article which included some very unique stat blocks for different types of daemonfey.
I'd overlooked the stat blocks in Lords of Darkness as I'd assumed they were in the back of the book, but that book has them right up front! They are really unique!
Sarya Dlardrageth, whose dad was a balor, gets...
• Bat wings.
• Innate spells: At-will detect magic; 3/day affect normal fires, burning hands, fear, pyrotechnics.
• Immune to fire & poison.
• Vulnerable to cold.
• Heat Aura acting as permanent fire shield, and can concentrate to ignite flammables.
• A bunch of custom magic items.
Ryvvik Dlardrageth, whose dad was a vrock, gets...
• A lesser version of a vrock's screech.
• Vestigial underarm wings provide him with feather fall at will.
• Telepathy (with strange proviso that it requires line of sight).
• "Mind Surge" globe or ray which paralyzes 3/day.
• Psionics.
• An item called a kiira gem which allows him to store all knowledge read from the minds of others.
Xhalh Dlardrageth, whose mom was a marilith, gets...
• Six arms.
• Innate spells: At-will detect magic; 1/day exhale cloudkill.
• Never surprised.
• Regeneration (slow, 1 hp per 10 minutes).
• Immune to poison & gas.
• A bunch of custom magic items. |
Edited by - Quickleaf on 06 Jan 2021 03:32:38 |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2021 : 10:16:53
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| Ooh, I dig the vulnerability to cold. How splendid for a narrative! |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2021 : 12:02:27
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| I feel bad for the ones sired by a Vrock, lol. Noblest elven lineage. Garbage demon lineage. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2021 : 20:28:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I feel bad for the ones sired by a Vrock, lol. Noblest elven lineage. Garbage demon lineage.
I don't know... barlgura look like apes, hezrou are toads, nalfeshnee were pigs.... I'm not seeing many good choices. Granted, succubus/incubus used to be demons, and of course the marilith top half is interesting, but you won't be "working" with that part. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Would a daemonfey be a cambion in 5e?
