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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2020 :  19:31:59  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So, I am ready to fully dive into an update for Iriaebor similiar to he one I did for Hardbuckler. Here are the base assumptions that I will use when coming up with the history:

1. Every time Ed has been asked about Iriaebor's history, he has said it is under a NDA. So, given the lack of information, I am going to run with this: Iriaebor wasn't mentioned because it and the associated geography is something recent (meaning within the last couple thousand years).

2. The earliest mention of Iriaebor by name that I have been able to find in cannon is a reference to Elminster's nephew by Ed that states Iriaebor existed in the mid 200s.

3. The Tor of Iriaebor is too good of a defensive structure to not have been utilized by anyone in the area and should have been in use for thousands of years. Since there is no mention of it, it is artificial and is something that was created in the early part of the first millennium DR.

4. The crypt of the Shadowking would have had to existed by 323 when it is said he is imprisoned and has been a secret from the start. This could not have been a public works project since there would have been records of its construction. To account for this, anyone that had direct knowledge would have to have died/been killed almost immediately after it's construction was completed.

Does anyone see any glaring holes in those assumptions? Most of this is going to have to be created from nothing but I would like the end product to be as respectful to cannon as possible.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5011 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2020 :  20:00:03  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would look at the rest of the Western Heartlands when trying to piece together information about Iriaebor.

You have Ebenfar which is of course the link to the Crypt of the Shadowking.

Before that there was Netherese expansion into the area.

Before that it is probably that the Western Heartlands was part of the giant kingdom of Nedeheim.


In all likelihood Iriaebor was occupied multiple times. First as a Netherese outpost from -2000 DR onwards. Around -600 to -339 DR there was a flood of refugees into the region and Iriaebor probably swelled as an easily defensible position in a region surrounded by orcs and goblinoids and giants.

Then Ebenfar comes along and Iriaebor undoubtedly gets conquered / absorbed. Its unclear yet whether Ebenfar existed as a conquering nation or whether it was just that the Shadowking used the entire Western Heartlands as his own personal hunting ground. He probably nearly hunted the settlement of Iriaebor to extinction, leaving it a ghost-town.

Then Ebenfar falls and people return to Iriaebor. To add to the problems the Chondathans of Jhaamdath flood into the region. Later the Illuskans arrived and you have the beginnings of the Faerunian Pantheon and the Common tongue.

The history of Iriaebor should heavily involve the history of the Western Heartlands and the rest of Faerun. As a result it should be waves of migration, increased trade and crime and corruption, religious strife as cults and churches of various fallen nations try to absorb one another.

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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2020 :  21:42:55  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I have been gathering as much as I can find about the area in general. The history of the Darkhold had some stuff in there. I figure that is a big influence on the area. There is a little bit about Berdusk being an elven outpost in the past. I have assembled the timeline for when the road system from Calimshan to Waterdeep was completed. I have when Westgate was settled so I can figure out when the road from Westgate to Iriaebor was done. There is also the Hin Ghostwar that will determine when a large number of halflings moved into the area. You have the Cormyr/Shoon dustup in the 300s. There are the kingdoms of Ebenfar, Shavinar, and Atalantar because if you have a city built on trading, you need cities/states/countries for the trading to be with. Since river trade is a big part of it, I need to have a general idea when Balder's Gate, Scornubel, and the rest were founded.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TBeholder
Great Reader

2012 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2020 :  22:23:58  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

1. Every time Ed has been asked about Iriaebor's history, he has said it is under a NDA. So, given the lack of information, I am going to run with this: Iriaebor wasn't mentioned because it and the associated geography is something recent (meaning within the last couple thousand years).

Not necessarily. Anything submitted but shelved infects most directly related subjects with NDA.
It could have been a Harper plot. Or ancient history.
Or the reason for such unusual architecture so close to the City of Dark Weavings. Or something else. Or all of the above.
The result is the same.

quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

4. The crypt of the Shadowking would have had to existed by 323 when it is said he is imprisoned and has been a secret from the start. This could not have been a public works project since there would have been records of its construction. To account for this, anyone that had direct knowledge would have to have died/been killed almost immediately after it's construction was completed.
Also not necessarily. I don't know what you mean under "public works project" in context of Realms, but when someone needs things built and kept secret, there are spells like geas... and elementals.

But why should it be constructed immediately before being used? Most of it could have been much older.
Skullport once was a Netherese outpost, but who remembers this except those skulls?
How many people remembered what's up with Hellgate Keep?
A random castle cellar back from Spawn Wars era (or even Crown Wars era!) would be very reliably forgotten.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 07 Apr 2020 22:28:28
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2020 :  05:55:47  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
There is also the Hin Ghostwar that will determine when a large number of halflings moved into the area.



Disagree on this one. The halflings are part of the migration north from the Purple Hills and Mieritin, fleeing the Shoon. See Empires of the Shining Sea, Lands of Intrigue, and Dragon #350.

The 3e retcon can explain halfligns elsewhere in the Realms. It's not needed for the Sword Coast.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2020 :  15:43:56  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
There is also the Hin Ghostwar that will determine when a large number of halflings moved into the area.



Disagree on this one. The halflings are part of the migration north from the Purple Hills and Mieritin, fleeing the Shoon. See Empires of the Shining Sea, Lands of Intrigue, and Dragon #350.

The 3e retcon can explain halfligns elsewhere in the Realms. It's not needed for the Sword Coast.

--Eric



Thank you. I was having a problem for how the halflings were predominate in the Corm Orp area if the Netherese got to the area centuries before they did. That would fit into the migrations timeline nicely.

Sadly, the scale of this has grown much larger than I originally thought it would be. I am trying to make everything I come up with logically fit in with everything I can find in my research but there is so much information about the area that has not been published that I have to come up with the background stuff for the background stuff. Gary's suggestions have certainly opened up an iron ration full of meal worms fried in maple sap (I don't care how much halflings and gnomes say they are good, I ain't eating them).

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5011 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2020 :  16:43:51  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That can of meat and fried worms is part of the fun of picking a sandbox and developing it. I always try and draw on historical situations (so the migration out of the hordelands I imagine in terms of the vandals and other tribes migrating into the roman empire, the evolution of languages I compare to the evolution of english), doesnt always work when it comes to FR (how do you deal with a dragon king).

The best thing to do though is immerse yourself in the lore of that place, it will help when you have to create new stuff. And when you run out of ideas come here and ask for help, I'm an unashamed borrower of other peoples ideas, I've even borrowed npcs from the keep and written them into a region (sometimes their histories needs rework, but there is an npc from the candlekeep compendium in my moonshaes rewrite, and his clan are developed in my version of moray).

I look forward to seeing your developments, the western heartlands is somewhere I might venture eventually but it's a big unknown and I suspect is where many church conflicts occurred as northmen, chondathan, and netheres peoples mixed.

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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2020 :  18:29:52  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Some of the ideas I have had so far are:

1. One reason the halflings are dominate in the Corp Orp area is that there was an outbreak of the Serpent Curse among the humans there and it was the halflings, who are immune to it, that were able to finally completely clean all the ophidans out.

2. There was just a small fishing village where Scornubel is located when the Netherese founded Zirta. The Netherese didn't want any "dirty outlanders" in their town which led up to the War of Lords and Scornubel "absorbing" Zirta.

3. Iriaebor is named after a founding Netherese archmage named Iriaeban. A fopish merchant didn't like him so after a series of events the merchant was able to rename the town Iriaebor as a dig at Iriaeban (Iriaeban is SUCH a boor). He is also the source of the two names for residents: Iriaeban or Iriaeben. Originally, Iriaeben were the people living on the Tor and the "lower class" living in the other parts of the city were Iriaeban. Over time, those terms have both been used for anyone in the city (although, there is still a tendency for the Tor residents to still refer to themselves as Iriaeben).

4. The expansion of the Calimshan empire and the displacement that caused is what drove the Horsemen of the Vale out (and is when Urdrath of the Horsemen was abandoned). This also drove the Talfir Tribes, orcs, and (per Eric's suggestion) halflings into the Vale in larger numbers (which pushed out the Horsemen).

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5011 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2020 :  19:16:38  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well can't say i have looked much at halflings (i dont think anyone ever notices them), but the Horsemen of the Vale, is this Vale the Sunset Vale - because that region has its own history (look at Prayers from the Faithful i think).

The Urdrath i figured were originally from the Shining Plains which is where the people of Jhaamdath were originally from (notice the similarity in naming suffixes between Urdrath and Jhaamdath). The people of the Shining Plains were originally nomads and the Chondathans had a famous breed of horses.

I imagine the fall of Jhaamdath displaced a lot of people many of whom fled north (and netherese migrants had already been moving into the Dragon Coast for almost a century). So i figure the Urdrath just moved on to pastures new and headed west as their territory suddenly became full of people. That could mean the Urdrath arrive anywhere in the western heartlands from -255 DR for the next few centuries.

After that, well they are yours to play with as you wish.


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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2020 :  19:51:14  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

4. The expansion of the Calimshan empire and the displacement that caused is what drove the Horsemen of the Vale out (and is when Urdrath of the Horsemen was abandoned). This also drove the Talfir Tribes, orcs, and (per Eric's suggestion) halflings into the Vale in larger numbers (which pushed out the Horsemen).



I would call it the Shoon Empire in this context.

I think the Talfir were the natives, they weren't pushed into this area.

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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2020 :  20:31:10  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There seems to be a reuse of names that may or may not link both uses. This is how Urdrath is listed in VGttSC:

The traveler through Asbravn will see only lush farms with wood lots, drainage ditches and ponds, wellkept barns and stump-and-boulder fences, and general tranquility. At corners where tracks and trails meet in the town stand old, cracked, stout stone pillars surmounted by crumbling horse heads. These are the only visible relics of an ancient city, Urdrath of the Horsemen, that stood on this site. The Horsemen were nomads who moved to Tunland or the Savage North long ago. Urdrath was where they came to worship and bury their dead in catacombs beneath the streets.

That seems to indicate a place name and not a people. Plus, if they had arrived there post -255, they would had to have been in the Vale for only a short time (probably too short to create the city in the first place) for the pillars to be cracked and crumbling by 1368 because it takes time for stone to weather into that state. Maybe a parallel thing with Jhaamdath with both from the same source? Perhaps a divine intervention moved an entire tribe here?

Sulduskoon is another one that has been reused. You have the River Sulduskoon in Berdusk (which used to be named Sulduskoon) and the Sulduskoon River in Tethyr.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2020 :  21:15:26  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

4. The expansion of the Calimshan empire and the displacement that caused is what drove the Horsemen of the Vale out (and is when Urdrath of the Horsemen was abandoned). This also drove the Talfir Tribes, orcs, and (per Eric's suggestion) halflings into the Vale in larger numbers (which pushed out the Horsemen).



I would call it the Shoon Empire in this context.

I think the Talfir were the natives, they weren't pushed into this area.



I was counting the Talfir as being native to Amn and The Greenfields. When Shoon pushed the Tethyr barbarians into Amn, the Talfir pushed up into Sunset Vale and the Fields of the Dead. That way, centuries down the road, you would have Ebenfar consisting of Berdusk (Talfir), Zirta (Netherese), and Elturel (Talfir/Netherese). My current thought is that the Shadowking was trying to add Iriaebor (Netherese/Talfir/Chondathan) to his kingdom when he was trapped in the crypt (there was also a rumor of an artifact under Iriaebor that drew him to personally participate in the anexation). I am also thinking that Elturel was the capital since that would put it closer to the Forrest of Wyrms and the fight against Terpenzi.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5011 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2020 :  21:49:49  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well netheril is named after nether the elder, jhaamdath is named after its founder Jhaam, so urdrath could be named for the tribe of Urd (death meaning place of).

Given that the people were nomads, then urdrath was probably just a meeting place and burial ground. The pillars being the only thing built above ground, and the cellars below are actually burial mounds.

I'm not sure of the timescales but if you look at england, some settlements were left empty after the first and second world war and are already forgotten. There are buildings in my town that are literally falling down and they can only have been left vacant for 30 years. A hundred years of neglect will collapse a building, then people start to nick the stone for other things.


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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2020 :  21:52:41  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

[quote]Originally posted by TheIriaeban

4. The expansion of the Calimshan empire and the displacement that caused is what drove the Horsemen of the Vale out (and is when Urdrath of the Horsemen was abandoned). This also drove the Talfir Tribes, orcs, and (per Eric's suggestion) halflings into the Vale in larger numbers (which pushed out the Horsemen).



I would call it the Shoon Empire in this context.

I think the Talfir were the natives, they weren't pushed into this area.



I was counting the Talfir as being native to Amn and The Greenfields. When Shoon pushed the Tethyr barbarians into Amn, the Talfir pushed up into Sunset Vale and the Fields of the Dead. That way, centuries down the road, you would have Ebenfar consisting of Berdusk (Talfir), Zirta (Netherese), and Elturel (Talfir/Netherese). My current thought is that the Shadowking was trying to add Iriaebor (Netherese/Talfir/Chondathan) to his kingdom when he was trapped in the crypt (there was also a rumor of an artifact under Iriaebor that drew him to personally participate in the anexation). I am also thinking that Elturel was the capital since that would put it closer to the Forrest of Wyrms and the fight against Terpenzi.
[/quote

I think the humans native to Tethyr and Amn were Tethens. The humans native to the Chionthar river valley were Talfir.

Beginning in -461 DR, you saw an exodus of Netherese. Some went into Delzoun / Ascalhorn, some went southwest past Evereska, and some went east.

The southwest group settled places along the Chionthar river valley, in the Underdark (Philock, see DDGttU) and the Nelanther (see Lost Empires). They displaced or settled alongside the Talfir. Very different cultures and magical technology levels.

Then you had the Shadowking arise in Ebenfar (which was up on the High Moor, see the map in Curse of the Shadowmage) and he basically destroyed one small kingdom after another in the Chionthar river valley, reducing them to terrified groups of barbarians. (I Posted some of this earlier in another thread.)

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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2020 :  22:57:04  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The time frame I am looking at is -1900. Now, it could be that there was no such thing as Talfirians at that point and they were all Tethens. If the Tethens existed over that entire area as hunter/gatherers (they were called Tethyr barbarians) and then the group along the river valley became farmers, that could be how the Talfirians came about. They could also be considered native to the river valley since that is where their society was developed.

As for your points about Ebenfar, I found some other information that tosses almost everything I have now for the history of Iriaebor itself in the trash and I am back to square one for it. Ideas for Ebenfar, too.

Oh well, getting this right is better than getting it done quickly. Thank you for your feedback.


"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2020 :  02:39:55  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Well netheril is named after nether the elder, jhaamdath is named after its founder Jhaam, so urdrath could be named for the tribe of Urd (death meaning place of).

Given that the people were nomads, then urdrath was probably just a meeting place and burial ground. The pillars being the only thing built above ground, and the cellars below are actually burial mounds.

I'm not sure of the timescales but if you look at england, some settlements were left empty after the first and second world war and are already forgotten. There are buildings in my town that are literally falling down and they can only have been left vacant for 30 years. A hundred years of neglect will collapse a building, then people start to nick the stone for other things.





Based on your input, I now have the Tribe of Ur arriving in Sunset Vale in -2387. They were living near the Lake of Steam but there was some meteors seen over the lake in -2391 and their shaman took that as a sign from their god that it was time to leave (good thing, too, since the Beholders starting making trouble in the area in -2381).

As for the standing stones of Urdrath, I am seeing those more like the ones at Stonehenge (and they are still doing pretty good after all this time).

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents

Edited by - TheIriaeban on 09 Apr 2020 02:40:22
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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2020 :  20:53:52  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Based on what I have found, I may have had an insight into why the humans living in the Sunset Vale-Greenfields areas weren't able to evolve beyond hunter/gatherers or nomadic herdsmen: dragons. In the Netheril Empire set, the map mentions "Dragons, and easy to tame, too" in the Backlands area. The Netherese even set up Wreathe as a forward camp for hunting them. The elven kingdom? of Arundath alludes to this since it isn't formed until the dragons are driven out of Wyrmwood. So, if every time a human group starts to build something permanent a dragon comes along and wipes it out, they are going to stop trying. Based on this, it wouldn't be until the -1800s or so and later that there would even be a chance for non-nomadic people to settle in the area (elves had less problems in the area at the time, in general, since they were a more advanced civilization). Is this something that has been explicitly laid out somewhere that I haven't found? Is this an observation that someone else has already made?

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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AlexMcClay2000
Acolyte

Australia
7 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2020 :  18:15:03  Show Profile Send AlexMcClay2000 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm new to the Realms, and I just found this post. I'm currently running a game in Iriaebor, and I did a lot of prior research, reading Crypt of the Shadowking and Curse of the Shadowmage, and all the sourcebooks that mention Iriaebor. I'm mostly focused on 14th-century Iriaebor, but still, this post has been really helpful. I just wanted to say keep up the good work!

I also am having a problem with dates, and since Eric is replying to this thread, I might as well ask him. I'm having trouble figuring out the dates for Crypt of the Shadowking and Curse of the Shadowmage. So in Villans lorebook pg 15, it says that Ravendas took hold of Iriaebor in 1363 DR, and in the Crypt of the Shadowking it says that she took old of Iriaebor a year ago, so that would imply that the novel takes place in 1364 DR. That is also confirmed in page 98 in the Villans Lorebook in the Shadevari entry (History The first recorded occurrence of shadevari in modern-day Faerūn was in 1364 DR.).

But in GHotR it says that she took old of Iriaebor in Hammer 1363 DR, and that the Fellowship of the Dreaming Dragon freed Iriaebor in mid-Marpenoth of 1363 DR. Now that is close to 1364 DR. But the main problem is that in 1364 of GHotR is says that the events of Curse of the Shadowmage happened in 1364 DR. Now that completely messes the timeline up because in Curse of the Shadowmage pg 10 it says that the novel starts in the month of Uktar, and later in pg 30 it says that the events of Crypt of the Shadowking happened TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO (pg 303 says that the novel finished in Midwinter the next year). So that doesn't line up with GHotR, because according the GHotR Crypt of the Shadowking and Curse of the Shadowmage only happened a year apart, when the novels state that time in between the novels is two and a half years.

So hopefully you can see my frustration. The current dates that are possible are: Using the Villans Lorebook: Ranvendas took hold of Iriaebor in 1363 DR, the Fellowship freed Iriaebor in 1364 DR, Curse of the Shadowmage starts in Uktar 1366 DR and finishes in Midwinter 1367 DR. Using the first date in GHotR. The Fellowship Frees Iriaebor mid-Marpenoth 1363 DR, Curse of the Shadowmage starts in Uktar 1365 DR and finished Midwinter 1366 DR. Or using the 1364 DR date in GHotR: Curse of the Shadowmage happens in Uktar 1364 DR, finishes Midwinter 1365 DR, that means that the Fellowship freed Iriaebor in early 1362 DR and Ravendas took hold of Iriaebor in 1361 DR.

I already asked Ed, but I missed some key information when I asked him, so hopefully someone can help me with this dilemma. I'm leaning to the dates in the Villans Lorebook, so 1364 DR for Crypt and 1366-1367 DR for Curse.

Alex
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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

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Posted - 18 Apr 2020 :  19:51:58  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since GHotR was written after the novels and it was from Ed, I tend to go with it as a "correction" to previous mentions of dates. However, having said that, since you are using Iriaebor as a backdrop, if a book doesn't have something that causes a lasting or widespread change in the city itself, you may be able to not have to worry about that for your sessions. Crypt would obviously have a big impact since the setting is the city itself. I haven't started Curse yet (since I am not up to that period) but the little bit I have seen seems to point to the characters leaving the city so beyond your PCs not being able to interact with the book NPCs, it may not really matter for you.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TheIriaeban
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2020 :  19:44:52  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, so I think I have a handle on the forces that allowed the settlement of Sunset Vale.

1. The destruction of Shantal Orthreier resulted in the creation of the Greenfields.
a. This allowed plains animal populations to explode in number, especially horses.
b. This almost wiped out the resident Talfir people. They were only able to survive this by throwing themselves into the Chionthar river to escape the flames. This brought to the fore the water goddess Datha and added peace to her portfolio since she was the only god able to halt the fires created by the warring elves at the behest of Tempos (as viewed by the Talfir). It also took centuries for the Talfir to even think about moving away from the Chionthar river valleys because of the "time the world burned."

2. A tribe of Chondath people in the mid -5500s came to the area and was able to break some of the horses and thus became the Horsemen of Ur.
a. Sunset Vale at the time was "infested" with goblinoids and other monsters that no tribes would be able to dislodge.
b. The Horsemen, however, have the great equalizer of being mounted when they fight. That allows them to start clearing out Sunset Vale and thus make it safe for settlements to be created.

3. With the power vacuum left by the end of the 4th Crown war, that reduced the resistance to the expansion of the Calimshan Empire (later Shoon Empire) to expand north.
a. The expansion pushed more humans into the now safer Sunset Vale and also introduced halflings to the area, as well.
b. It also allowed Netherese and Chondathan peoples to colonize the area as well without having to fight an established power in the area.

Are there any serious deviations from established canon for these points?

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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