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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 28 Jan 2018 :  20:04:29  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Does it say anywhere how often this thing comes around?

And I realize its no longer connected to the Dracorage Mythal (does the mythal still work, or is that over and done with?)

But mostly I am just looking for the intervals right now, not lengthy discussions on its nature (I am just going to go ahead and act like nothing about the 'Draco-laser' is canon, because it just doesn't fit anything else).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
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Posted - 28 Jan 2018 :  20:20:04  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The mythal was damaged - and I believe its focus was destroyed, and we are left to believe its gone forever. However, we've seen elsewhere that using high magic, damaged mythals can be repaired and altered. I'd imagine this would mean its not coming back any time soon unless someone repairs the mythal and that in 1000 years or so when dragons start to rule the world, the elves will put it back together :P
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1007 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2018 :  20:22:35  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is a cicle, but we don't have much info about it. Dragons of Faerun says that every 300 years or so, but is not fixed, there have been intervals that range from 100 to 700 years.

As for the Mythal itself, it was destroyed in 1373 (in the events of the novel series "Rage of Dragons"). So, in the current Realms, the mythal is no more, and there will be no more rages. This is also a plot point in the Tiamat 5e adventures.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 28 Jan 2018 20:23:13
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3071 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2018 :  21:34:50  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-25000 DR, -3500, 1018 DR, and 1373 DR all were years where it happened, but that's a lot of variance and plenty of time in the inbetween (especially the first two and second two) for others.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
508 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2018 :  21:58:14  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Zeromaru X has the right of it.
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sleyvas
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6679 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2018 :  02:39:44  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
See if the dragons had just set their dragon laser on stun instead of kill first, they would have practiced shooting with less power...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
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Posted - 29 Jan 2018 :  03:56:25  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

There is a cicle, but we don't have much info about it. Dragons of Faerun says that every 300 years or so, but is not fixed, there have been intervals that range from 100 to 700 years.

As for the Mythal itself, it was destroyed in 1373 (in the events of the novel series "Rage of Dragons"). So, in the current Realms, the mythal is no more, and there will be no more rages. This is also a plot point in the Tiamat 5e adventures.



They "destroyed" the mythal by destroying its focus. To me it seems that this would only damage the mythal and not eliminate it, mythals being layer upon layer of woven magics that hold each other together. Perhaps after his time fixing up Myth Drannor Araevin will swing on up there and patch it up as well. A Mythal is a terrible thing to waste, after all.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30814 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2018 :  05:21:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

There is a cicle, but we don't have much info about it. Dragons of Faerun says that every 300 years or so, but is not fixed, there have been intervals that range from 100 to 700 years.

As for the Mythal itself, it was destroyed in 1373 (in the events of the novel series "Rage of Dragons"). So, in the current Realms, the mythal is no more, and there will be no more rages. This is also a plot point in the Tiamat 5e adventures.



They "destroyed" the mythal by destroying its focus. To me it seems that this would only damage the mythal and not eliminate it, mythals being layer upon layer of woven magics that hold each other together. Perhaps after his time fixing up Myth Drannor Araevin will swing on up there and patch it up as well. A Mythal is a terrible thing to waste, after all.



That was one of the things I really disliked in 3E... Prior info on mythals didn't say a thing about there being some keystone at the heart of the mythal. 3E made it both a thing and a plotpoint.

I personally think it diminishes mythals to have them tied to a rock that any random yahoo can manipulate.

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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1567 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  05:18:12  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

But mostly I am just looking for the intervals right now, not lengthy discussions on its nature (I am just going to go ahead and act like nothing about the 'Draco-laser' is canon, because it just doesn't fit anything else).

It fits perfectly with Selunites' paranoia toward Toril.

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

They "destroyed" the mythal by destroying its focus. To me it seems that this would only damage the mythal and not eliminate it, mythals being layer upon layer of woven magics that hold each other together.

Sure, but:
1. Mythals are unique.
2. If it cannot be activated, practically it's as good as "destroyed" even if it's not fully gone. Kind of like a filled/drilled cannon - most of the original metal is still here, but it cannot be used for the original purpose.
3. It was already heavily damaged. Between all damage to the Weave during its existence - including (but not limited to) chipping Evermeet off the continent, Karsus' Folly and ToT - then damaged and/or corrupted by Sammaster's tampering.
It's possible that excessive strain from working longer and harder than its normal cycle made was not healthy for it either.
Oh, and several dragons from other planes were summoned right on top of a mythal with primary function to affect the dragons active at the time, by an entity who was linked to it and contributed to its corruptions, no less - and subsequently their blood was spilled there. It's not like this could result in anything untoward at better times, never mind right before the mythal was broken for good?
4. A heavily damaged and/or corrupted mythal will continue to unravel. Like a cut sweater, only with large areas of wild magic and all the other fun we know from Myth Drannor and Myth Glaurach. Except it was more powerful and solidly built (affecting the whole planet and surviving all this time), so its decay probably would be slower, but may reach anywhere in the world (and maybe occasionally "entertain" the rest of Realmspace).

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 01 Feb 2018 05:43:34
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15256 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  09:33:26  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

There is a cicle, but we don't have much info about it. Dragons of Faerun says that every 300 years or so, but is not fixed, there have been intervals that range from 100 to 700 years.

As for the Mythal itself, it was destroyed in 1373 (in the events of the novel series "Rage of Dragons"). So, in the current Realms, the mythal is no more, and there will be no more rages. This is also a plot point in the Tiamat 5e adventures.


They "destroyed" the mythal by destroying its focus. To me it seems that this would only damage the mythal and not eliminate it, mythals being layer upon layer of woven magics that hold each other together. Perhaps after his time fixing up Myth Drannor Araevin will swing on up there and patch it up as well. A Mythal is a terrible thing to waste, after all.



That was one of the things I really disliked in 3E... Prior info on mythals didn't say a thing about there being some keystone at the heart of the mythal. 3E made it both a thing and a plotpoint.

I personally think it diminishes mythals to have them tied to a rock that any random yahoo can manipulate.
In the return of the archwizards series, it was a statue. I forget of who, but I'm 99% sure it was female, and likely an elf (Seldarine). It was in the middle of Evereska, and they 'rebuilt' the mythal using both regular weave and shadoweave magic (whatever the heck that was supposed to mean).

Honestly though, even if it was never in any of the prior canon, magic usually does have a 'thing' it focuses on. Even if its just a place the elves are standing around. In order to create a field-affect of any kind, you have to have a center point. I just always assumed there was usually something there they were focusing on.

Of course, I think it should take more than a few hours (with ZERO preparation) and a handful of wizards to raise a mythal, but what do I know? Its 5e now - they probably have 'insta-Mythal' in little packets.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30814 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  16:15:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

There is a cicle, but we don't have much info about it. Dragons of Faerun says that every 300 years or so, but is not fixed, there have been intervals that range from 100 to 700 years.

As for the Mythal itself, it was destroyed in 1373 (in the events of the novel series "Rage of Dragons"). So, in the current Realms, the mythal is no more, and there will be no more rages. This is also a plot point in the Tiamat 5e adventures.


They "destroyed" the mythal by destroying its focus. To me it seems that this would only damage the mythal and not eliminate it, mythals being layer upon layer of woven magics that hold each other together. Perhaps after his time fixing up Myth Drannor Araevin will swing on up there and patch it up as well. A Mythal is a terrible thing to waste, after all.



That was one of the things I really disliked in 3E... Prior info on mythals didn't say a thing about there being some keystone at the heart of the mythal. 3E made it both a thing and a plotpoint.

I personally think it diminishes mythals to have them tied to a rock that any random yahoo can manipulate.
In the return of the archwizards series, it was a statue. I forget of who, but I'm 99% sure it was female, and likely an elf (Seldarine). It was in the middle of Evereska, and they 'rebuilt' the mythal using both regular weave and shadoweave magic (whatever the heck that was supposed to mean).

Honestly though, even if it was never in any of the prior canon, magic usually does have a 'thing' it focuses on. Even if its just a place the elves are standing around. In order to create a field-affect of any kind, you have to have a center point. I just always assumed there was usually something there they were focusing on.



A lot of magic barriers and wards and such exist without any kind of keystone. And we not only had a lot of info about Myth Drannor's mythal, we have a lot of info about the creation of mythals. None of that referred to a keystone.

If we didn't have any prior mythal info, I'd buy in on the keystone idea a lot more readily. But given that it was something utterly new, not seen previously in print despite multiple opportunities, I have an issue with it.

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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1007 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  16:43:55  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

They "destroyed" the mythal by destroying its focus. To me it seems that this would only damage the mythal and not eliminate it, mythals being layer upon layer of woven magics that hold each other together.

Sure, but:
1. Mythals are unique.
2. If it cannot be activated, practically it's as good as "destroyed" even if it's not fully gone. Kind of like a filled/drilled cannon - most of the original metal is still here, but it cannot be used for the original purpose.
3. It was already heavily damaged. Between all damage to the Weave during its existence - including (but not limited to) chipping Evermeet off the continent, Karsus' Folly and ToT - then damaged and/or corrupted by Sammaster's tampering.
It's possible that excessive strain from working longer and harder than its normal cycle made was not healthy for it either.
Oh, and several dragons from other planes were summoned right on top of a mythal with primary function to affect the dragons active at the time, by an entity who was linked to it and contributed to its corruptions, no less - and subsequently their blood was spilled there. It's not like this could result in anything untoward at better times, never mind right before the mythal was broken for good?
4. A heavily damaged and/or corrupted mythal will continue to unravel. Like a cut sweater, only with large areas of wild magic and all the other fun we know from Myth Drannor and Myth Glaurach. Except it was more powerful and solidly built (affecting the whole planet and surviving all this time), so its decay probably would be slower, but may reach anywhere in the world (and maybe occasionally "entertain" the rest of Realmspace).



Add to that list the Spellplague.

The Spellplague did mess with many Mythals, and even heavily damaged most of these that had proper maintenance and were cared for everyday (like the Mythal of Silverymoon). Now, imagine what would have done to an abandoned and already damaged Mythal...

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30814 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  17:42:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually, aside from weakening Silverymoon's mythal, I'm pretty sure mythals were pretty much ignored by the Spellplague.

I just took a quick gander at the FRCG, and while it does claim mythals were affected, the only one described as having been affected is Silverymoon's. The mythal blurb says it was shattered, but the description of Silverymoon says it is there but weakened... There is no mention of anything happening to Myth Drannor's mythal, and aside from the Walking Statues, the only affect on Waterdeep was breaking tracking magics (Waterdeep is protected by a mythal, Aghairon's Dragonward, and sits on top of another, the Melairshield). There's no mention of anything happening to Myth Nantar's mythal, either.

I remember that being a complaint of mine, at the time: in one of the web articles, the Spellplague was described as ignoring or flowing around areas of high magic, like where there were mythals. How it ignored some areas of high magic and still caused Halruaa to blow up was conveniently ignored.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 Feb 2018 17:54:36
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1730 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  19:54:29  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And that is incorrect. Multiple past sources confirm that the fields of magic in Silverymoon are not a mythal - they are mutliple wards layered overlapping each other in some places. This is why the ward token work.

It makes perfect sense that the spellplague - stupid as it was - would effect normal wards just like it affected other magic.

Mythal are different - they are like special places of the weave. Which, btw, is what they are tied to - not some rock or statue :P

I think the statue in Evereska in the books was of Hanali - not certain though.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30814 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2018 :  20:45:22  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

And that is incorrect. Multiple past sources confirm that the fields of magic in Silverymoon are not a mythal - they are mutliple wards layered overlapping each other in some places. This is why the ward token work.


You are both correct and incorrect. In 2E, it is stated that Silverymoon has a bunch of magic wards, and that a mythal was planned but never cast.

3E, with its deliberate brushing aside of prior canon, ignored this and said Silverymoon had a mythal. And other sources since then have said the same thing.

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage



I think the statue in Evereska in the books was of Hanali - not certain though.



I'm fairly certain you are correct. It seems an odd choice, though.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15256 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2018 :  08:05:09  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
By the way everyone, I forgot to say it in my last post...

Thank you all for your responses!

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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